vs Valparaiso (0-5) - Sunday 1/14/24 - 2 pm - ESPN+

[CaliRdBrd]

it’s not just the shooting, Birds are playing defense with 5’s jump switching on the perimeter and forcing Banks, Kinziger, Burford to guard bigs on the block; they don’t value FT shooting enough to shoot better than the 50%; the offense simply doesn’t create shots- almost every 3 was on the move tonight and even when Foster gets it on the block, they can triple him cause they know it’s not getting kicked back.

I didn’t see a lack of effort before he pulled everybody- it really feels like the system just isn’t putting players in a position to succeed, it’s not giving them great looks that they are missing, they are missing difficult shots for the most part. On the defensive end, we are still many times just to small to match up if Lewis or Foster are out and the way we play defense doesnt help it(watched Valpo bigs drop time and time again without giving up either great shots or mismatches tonight), teams we play aren’t just that good. This Birds team can be better, it can’t get better players for this year and unless there is a draft choice I don’t know about, playing freshman “for the future” doesn’t make sense in a portal world, if they continue to lose, it will get harder in the future- what I’m opposed to is continuing to do the same thing and expect different results, time to evaluate offensive and defensive playbooks.

This is a wasted season, and Pedon probably knew that beforehand.
Could it be that all the substitutions, tinkering with offense, etc. are him just seeing what he has and what he needs for next year?

 

[CaliRdBrd]

Not saying to buy him out. I agree due to horrendous previous contract ISU in a hole before we even pass go. We are stuck until the end of the current contract. Unless massive improvement in wins versus losses happens in the next 10 games ISU needs to be thinking about the future. I am really worried we go on a 10 game winning streak against a weak schedule, athletic department gets in a tizzy and bam we get an extension. While I believe ISU should be looking for that very successful coach from a lower conference or division that knows how to win. We have several years to be looking. Don’t hire the homer and do not hire the legend, you can never get rid of them if they are not successful. They always have their supporters and defenders that make removal difficult. I would also look for a coach that has a basketball style that is very entertaining and will get attendance back. ISU is going on 30 years of not being asked to go dancing. Thirty years. Other schools have changed it up in two years. We are living in the past and we have to look forward to the future. Where we are today is not a very bright future.

Regardless of the level of competition, I’d give a kidney for a ten game winning streak.

 

[CaliRdBrd]

@Humdinger I went to the Dick Baumgartner's basketball shooting camp in Indiana for a week as well. Great camp! I remember bringing home one of the basketballs with hand prints on the ball of where to place hands. Great camp experience, probably went around 1990. Great time and memory!

Regarding this team and season, it's been frustrating no doubt. I'll continue to support coach Pedon unless or until he's no longer our coach. I'm happy for my friend Roger Powell getting his first Valley win at Redbird Arena. Valpo is a much tougher school to recruit to than Illinois State and he'll have an uphill battle to become a contender in the Valley there. He has a few talented young players and I'm sure will keep building a team and culture that matches his style. I do believe Valpo is the perfect fit for his personality.

As a side note, I'm paying close attention to Indiana State's success and observing my own bias when we have had openings for head coaches where I've wanted a top assistant from a power program to come in compared to a highly successful coach at a lower tier university.

I can see especially in this NIL/portal era where a coach that has been massively successful in D2 or D3 might be a much better fit for a school in the Valley because these coaches don't rely on top talent recruits or care how many "stars" they are ranked and tend to recruit a different type of player and culture than what a top assistant from a bigger program would. Many of these kids want to go to the highest level program they can go to and if they have success at a Valley school, they may move on to a power 5 program that will offer them more money.

Instead, coaches from D2 build for culture and clearly based on results, they are great floor coaches and leaders of talent. So if/when we're ever in a position to hire a new coach (which I hope happens only after coach Pedon succeeds so much he gets a big pay raise and goes back to Ohio State or another program like that), I'm committed to removing my own previous bias and hope we strongly consider going down a path to find a dominant coach from a lower tier.

Agree. However, in this day and age, how do you build a culture when your better players leave as soon as they start to develop.
Coaching NCAA basketball nowadays days must be a nightmare.

 

[CaliRdBrd]

It will be interesting to see what the roster looks like next year. I would say one of the biggest knocks on Muller was that he didn't get good basketball players into the program, which I think is overblown slightly but the sentiment is a common one. So far from the portal we've pulled Burford, Knight, Sandage, Poindexter, Petrakis, Kasubke, Lieb, Banks, Foster, Davis. The overall return on that investment is less than average. I'm wondering if we don't see a revamped recruiting effort focusing on JC, D2, D3, NAIA. St. Thomas is having success with several D3 players. Maybe our thinking that P5 scraps will accelerate things at our level is one that needs tweaking. So far the P5 guys we've thought would benefit from a change of level has failed.

I’ll always question a P5 transfer that wants to play at a low level mid major.
I’m going to show my lack of memory here, but have we ever had a fruitful season from a P5 transfer?

 

[Buffett1]

This is a wasted season, and Pedon probably knew that beforehand.
Could it be that all the substitutions, tinkering with offense, etc. are him just seeing what he has and what he needs for next year?

no

 

[SgtHulka]

Doug...that printed hand on the ball was absolute genius.

I've got an ISU\Garcia's Flying Pizza basketball. Maybe using that would solve our shooting woes. Speaking of which, I believe the last Garcia's in Normal closed right around our last tournament appearance. And briefly returned to Bloomington in 2017. Garcia's used to advertise a free slice if your seat number matched the point spread during our 80s hey days.Picked up a Stuffed Gutbuster whine in Urbana and enjoyed it with the Axe's during the first half of the first half of the Kentucky game. After we finished the pie the wheels came off. Coincidence l?!? I think not. Only Garcia's can make ISU Basketball Great Again.

Missed this game to enjoy the nice weather. Figured I'd catch the replay if we won. So I have no opinion on the game in question. Other than, how were the free Carl's Ice Cream Frozen Treats for us making a three?

We really need to resolve the intirims littering upper management. If the season plays out this way, we need to look at not just reinventing the roster, but the staff (assistants) at a minimum.

 

[Redbird222]

I’ll always question a P5 transfer that wants to play at a low level mid major.
I’m going to show my lack of memory here, but have we ever had a fruitful season from a P5 transfer?

Champ Oguchi

 

[fdbird83]

U

Unless we have some guys opt to move on, the next year’s roster will look pretty much the same. We lose Lewis and Schmitt. We have two HS recruits, a 4 and a 2.

The good news is, we will have a lot of experience coming back. The bad news is we will have a lot of experience coming back.

 

[Redbird222]

Champ Oguchi

Actually Trey Guidry is probably the better answer.

 

[DougSutton]

Agree. However, in this day and age, how do you build a culture when your better players leave as soon as they start to develop.
Coaching NCAA basketball nowadays days must be a nightmare.

No doubt that this is a massive challenge in this NIL era. My hypothesis (no idea if there is merit to it) is that a coach from a lower tier level doesn't recruit the type of kids that are "stand outs" with multiple stars or are likely to transfer to a bigger school. They often recruit a balanced roster where there are less stars that will be on the radar of bigger programs (like Antonio Reeves) and instead have a bunch of role players that play great team basketball where the success is based on the team instead of individual athletes.

Even with this approach, you may still have this happen but may not be as prone to it as compared to other programs that build their rosters and approach building a program as junior level/junior varsity to the bigger programs that have more money.

Just thinking that this type of approach of going after this type of head coach for future hires might be better than what we have been doing in the past and many other programs do.

 

[Hamdonger]

I've got an ISU\Garcia's Flying Pizza basketball. Maybe using that would solve our shooting woes. Speaking of which, I believe the last Garcia's in Normal closed right around our last tournament appearance. And briefly returned to Bloomington in 2017. Garcia's used to advertise a free slice if your seat number matched the point spread during our 80s hey days.Picked up a Stuffed Gutbuster whine in Urbana and enjoyed it with the Axe's during the first half of the first half of the Kentucky game. After we finished the pie the wheels came off. Coincidence l?!? I think not. Only Garcia's can make ISU Basketball Great Again.

Missed this game to enjoy the nice weather. Figured I'd catch the replay if we won. So I have no opinion on the game in question. Other than, how were the free Carl's Ice Cream Frozen Treats for us making a three?

We really need to resolve the intirims littering upper management. If the season plays out this way, we need to look at not just reinventing the roster, but the staff (assistants) at a minimum.

My favorite all time pizza was Garcia's. Some of it is probably nostalgia. (Of course a good Calzone is hard to beat!) Suddenly my palate is Niagara Falls. With this weather, now the whole front side of me is an ice sculpture but my nipples are somehow poking through. Thanks pal.

 

[Hamdonger]

I did eat way too much Grog's, though. It was so bad that good pizza started tasting bad and Grog's started tasting good! That 2.99 or 3.99 special ruined me.

 

[Reggie Redbird]

Still paying Muller.

DpDough - was Muller’s buyout one of those that was immediately due? I thought I heard that we had to have the $1 million up front to make that move. I would say anything in that contract was to Muller’s favor and benefit.

For those discussing, Pedon’s buyout is not $6 million. I think some people are swapping the $6 million not received on the IPF with Pedon’s buyout.

I had to digest this game after watching it in person. It was poor.

1.) The move to go with the last 5 on our bench paid off, but then we left them in too long. We dropped back to the same deficit versus capitalizing on a quick burst and sending a message.

2.) There needs to be accountability for continuing to take awful 3’s instead of taking it closer where we’re having more success. FT shooting was also a big difference maker. Valpo was shooting over 90%, and we were hovering between 50-60%.

3.) Lewis jawing with the officials didn’t help. He was constantly complaining, and you can tell Kelly Self was not reacting well to Lewis’ complaints. Not only was Lewis’ play not helping, but his attitude was a detriment.

4.) I don’t want to hear complaints about crowd noise or size from Pedon until I see a team that puts up a better effort than what we have seen recently. Fans forking over their hard-earned dollars are not going to continue coming with yet another rough season and just continuing to make bad decisions. Our women’s team certainly watches our men’s games. Perhaps our men’s team needs to watch our women’s.

 

[RedbirdSoxFan]

I’ll always question a P5 transfer that wants to play at a low level mid major.
I’m going to show my lack of memory here, but have we ever had a fruitful season from a P5 transfer?

Skip Schaefbauer

 

[RedbirdSoxFan]

I've got an ISU\Garcia's Flying Pizza basketball. Maybe using that would solve our shooting woes. Speaking of which, I believe the last Garcia's in Normal closed right around our last tournament appearance. And briefly returned to Bloomington in 2017. Garcia's used to advertise a free slice if your seat number matched the point spread during our 80s hey days.Picked up a Stuffed Gutbuster whine in Urbana and enjoyed it with the Axe's during the first half of the first half of the Kentucky game. After we finished the pie the wheels came off. Coincidence l?!? I think not. Only Garcia's can make ISU Basketball Great Again.

Missed this game to enjoy the nice weather. Figured I'd catch the replay if we won. So I have no opinion on the game in question. Other than, how were the free Carl's Ice Cream Frozen Treats for us making a three?

We really need to resolve the intirims littering upper management. If the season plays out this way, we need to look at not just reinventing the roster, but the staff (assistants) at a minimum.

Always had to stop by Garcia’s (next to Alexander’s) for a slice of gutbuster after the game.

 

[CaliRdBrd]

Skip Schaefbauer

Loved Skip, but I wouldn’t call East Carolina a P5 program.
That said, if only he and Smiley weren’t injured, we may have beaten AZ and gone to the Sweet 16.

 

[CaliRdBrd]

Champ Oguchi

I should have Redbird fan card pulled for forgetting about Champ.

 

[dpdoughbird06]

Skip Schaefbauer

Champ Oguchi

 

[dpdoughbird06]

DpDough - was Muller’s buyout one of those that was immediately due? I thought I heard that we had to have the $1 million up front to make that move. I would say anything in that contract was to Muller’s favor and benefit.

For those discussing, Pedon’s buyout is not $6 million. I think some people are swapping the $6 million not received on the IPF with Pedon’s buyout.

I had to digest this game after watching it in person. It was poor.

1.) The move to go with the last 5 on our bench paid off, but then we left them in too long. We dropped back to the same deficit versus capitalizing on a quick burst and sending a message.

2.) There needs to be accountability for continuing to take awful 3’s instead of taking it closer where we’re having more success. FT shooting was also a big difference maker. Valpo was shooting over 90%, and we were hovering between 50-60%.

3.) Lewis jawing with the officials didn’t help. He was constantly complaining, and you can tell Kelly Self was not reacting well to Lewis’ complaints. Not only was Lewis’ play not helping, but his attitude was a detriment.

4.) I don’t want to hear complaints about crowd noise or size from Pedon until I see a team that puts up a better effort than what we have seen recently. Fans forking over their hard-earned dollars are not going to continue coming with yet another rough season and just continuing to make bad decisions. Our women’s team certainly watches our men’s games. Perhaps our men’s team needs to watch our women’s.

Muller probably was paid out in full two years ago but this would have been his final contract year, so I consider it like we’re still paying him on top of Pedon.

 

[RedbirdSoxFan]

Loved Skip, but I wouldn’t call East Carolina a P5 program.
That said, if only he and Smiley weren’t injured, we may have beaten AZ and gone to the Sweet 16.

Yeah, forgot you said P5.
I was at the Arizona game. Mrs Stallings was sitting behind me having a heated confrontation with a Lady Wildcats fan who was upset about our Redbird fans being to loud. At one point an usher came down an asked Ben Greenspan to not be so loud, that people were complaining.
As for Skip & Jamar not being available, I agree that it would have been a much different game had they been available. But it didn’t help when early in the second half and the score tied at 31 Sargent Hulka decided to remind Mike Bibby that this was our second string guards that they were playing against. Well we know what happened after that. Thanks Sarge