vs Valparaiso (0-5) - Sunday 1/14/24 - 2 pm - ESPN+

[ISU86]

I should have Redbird fan card pulled for forgetting about Champ.

L. Dee Murdock

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

I won't go down the road with you regarding men's basketball. Though Muller was the highest-paid coach at ISU and probably in the top 3 for the conference. They certainly could use a designated practice facility.

But Football? I might be wrong about this, but the 2 biggest projects (Cost wise) in the last 12 years or so, were the Hancock stadium remodeling (20 mil?) and the Indoor Practice Facility (11 mil?). Now the Indoor facility will be used for more than Football as is Hancock Stadium. But the main focus is football.

The football projects are a start but not enough. State of the art weight room for football should have been a priority over nearly all other spends. Men’s basketball needs to be boosted so that we are premier in MVC in facilities and amenities. Relative to MVC peers we have the dollars and should be spending them wisely. We are waisting $$$’s, staff resources, facilties, focus on sports that students/alums do not attend, do not bring in revenue nor bring positive press for the university. Beyond football, men’s basketball, women’s basketball and volleyball (or whatever correct men’s/women’s mix) cut all other sports to bare minimum need for d1 status and have them on tight travel and facilty use. The collegiate athletic world has changed and ISU ATHLETICS needs to change too and make sports cuts like many other universities are doing (including some P5s!) Let’s focus most where it matters. Let’s be great at men’s/womens basketball, football and volleyball.

Yippie….LETS GO change strategy and culture. Current strategy and culture not working, IMO. There is a good foundation and tremendous upside for ISU athletics AND ISU but must change otherwise more of the same. I think I speak for nearly all when I say…students/alums do not want more of the same old thing (the past 25 years) from ISU Athletics.

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

I don't think this team really likes each other.

YIKES…If that is the case the remainder of the season does not look too promising.

 

[BirdGrad2011]

YIKES…If that is the case the remainder of the season does not look too promising.

Might not be all bad. If you have players that have been here and supposed to be leaders not doing their job then I hope younger guys (winners like Johnny) step up and who cares if it pisses of a senior. Part of Pedon’s job is building a winning culture and exterminating the losing one from end of Muller.

 

[ISUalum19]

Another poor showing. Its honestly expected at this point. Im 27 and ISU has not made the tourny practically since I was born. Having grown up in blono and attended ISU I have come to expect no less of ISU basketball. At least I have fond memories of O and Boo when I was younger, and Paris + crew while I was in school. I can remember as a kid asking for tickets for Christmas to see ISU host Creighton or Wichita at RBA. It is amazing how far we have fallen.

The funny thing is that we will give Drake a game, only to lose by 5 or so after being handled by the worst team in the MVC.

 

[SgtHulka]

Yeah, forgot you said P5.
I was at the Arizona game. Mrs Stallings was sitting behind me having a heated confrontation with a Lady Wildcats fan who was upset about our Redbird fans being to loud. At one point an usher came down an asked Ben Greenspan to not be so loud, that people were complaining.
As for Skip & Jamar not being available, I agree that it would have been a much different game had they been available. But it didn’t help when early in the second half and the score tied at 31 Sargent Hulka decided to remind Mike Bibby that this was our second string guards that they were playing against. Well we know what happened after that. Thanks Sarge

Ill take credit for that L. My bad. If only they sold Garcia's at the Sacramento stadium. Woulda been a different outcome

 

[Redbird222]

I thought that 98-99 team was going to be decent with Rico, Leroy, Kyle, and Kennth Pierson coming back as Seniors. I knew we wouldnt be as strong but i thought conference contenders especially with the new players. I was excited for Bryson and Jeppson additions after seeing them play in high school. There were promising rumors about Riley and Murdock who were eligible after transferring and sitting out a year. I didnt know much about Victor Williams before the season started but he was awesome as a freshman.

Obviously Rico going pro was the biggest impact but Bryson was playing injured (I think knee and/or a stress fracture) and Murdock tearing his ACL solidified the team going south at the end of the season.

I just looked it up. We were 12-6 and lost 9 of our last 13 games to finish 16-15 which would be disappointing for a Kevin Stallings team.

L. Dee Murdock

 

[CaliRdBrd]

The football projects are a start but not enough. State of the art weight room for football should have been a priority over nearly all other spends. Men’s basketball needs to be boosted so that we are premier in MVC in facilities and amenities. Relative to MVC peers we have the dollars and should be spending them wisely. We are waisting $$$’s, staff resources, facilties, focus on sports that students/alums do not attend, do not bring in revenue nor bring positive press for the university. Beyond football, men’s basketball, women’s basketball and volleyball (or whatever correct men’s/women’s mix) cut all other sports to bare minimum need for d1 status and have them on tight travel and facilty use. The collegiate athletic world has changed and ISU ATHLETICS needs to change too and make sports cuts like many other universities are doing (including some P5s!) Let’s focus most where it matters. Let’s be great at men’s/womens basketball, football and volleyball.

Yippie….LETS GO change strategy and culture. Current strategy and culture not working, IMO. There is a good foundation and tremendous upside for ISU athletics AND ISU but must change otherwise more of the same. I think I speak for nearly all when I say…students/alums do not want more of the same old thing (the past 25 years) from ISU Athletics.

Having an engineering program will definitely help, but probably not for 10-20 years.

 

[CaliRdBrd]

Another poor showing. Its honestly expected at this point. Im 27 and ISU has not made the tourny practically since I was born. Having grown up in blono and attended ISU I have come to expect no less of ISU basketball. At least I have fond memories of O and Boo when I was younger, and Paris + crew while I was in school. I can remember as a kid asking for tickets for Christmas to see ISU host Creighton or Wichita at RBA. It is amazing how far we have fallen.

The funny thing is that we will give Drake a game, only to lose by 5 or so after being handled by the worst team in the MVC.

And if we do stay close to Drake, we’ll get the “moral victory/good loss” argument from some.
That mindset absolutely has to change.

 

[Sladerunningbear]

It’s cold out. If our players wore high socks like Marcus Franklin fashioned in 1994-1995 we would win. Yes, it’s that simple. Oh, and did I mention it’s cold?

Tired of it.

Spread the red.

 

[ISUalum19]

And if we do stay close to Drake, we’ll get the “moral victory/good loss” argument from some.
That mindset absolutely has to change.

100%.

 

[cpacmel]

The football projects are a start but not enough. State of the art weight room for football should have been a priority over nearly all other spends. Men’s basketball needs to be boosted so that we are premier in MVC in facilities and amenities. Relative to MVC peers we have the dollars and should be spending them wisely. We are waisting $$$’s, staff resources, facilties, focus on sports that students/alums do not attend, do not bring in revenue nor bring positive press for the university. Beyond football, men’s basketball, women’s basketball and volleyball (or whatever correct men’s/women’s mix) cut all other sports to bare minimum need for d1 status and have them on tight travel and facilty use. The collegiate athletic world has changed and ISU ATHLETICS needs to change too and make sports cuts like many other universities are doing (including some P5s!) Let’s focus most where it matters. Let’s be great at men’s/womens basketball, football and volleyball.

Yippie….LETS GO change strategy and culture. Current strategy and culture not working, IMO. There is a good foundation and tremendous upside for ISU athletics AND ISU but must change otherwise more of the same. I think I speak for nearly all when I say…students/alums do not want more of the same old thing (the past 25 years) from ISU Athletics.

There's alot to digest here. I agree about the weight room. I was on record saying the indoor facility should have been brick and mortar to include things like a weight room, indoor track, etc. But where does the money come from? You say take from the other sports, but what do they have to take from?

You say we are wasting $$$'s on facilities on sports that students/alumn's do not attend. What facilities are those? I thought you might mean Golf, but that one doesn't add up to me, as they have a huge donor that has earmarked only for golf. Baseball? Their new hitting area? Didn't DeJong throw the cash or most of it for that? And while we are on that subject, it's okay......but let's not kid ourselves, it's not fantastic. I don't know of any facilities for let's call them non-revenue sports that are we are dumping so much money into it.

Sort of the same with Staff resources. Salary? I don't think our non-revenue coaches are overpaid. Do you? I would imagine we are probably in the upper 1/2 for most of those sports and their coaches' contracts. Probably because there are always going to be schools like Indiana State, Valpo, and Evansville, who aren't going to pay a ton for their coaches. Again, I may be wrong on this.

So what else is there? Are non-revenue sports at ISU chartering planes for all their trips? Should they be bussing to every single event to say money? No more trips to Arizona or Florida or softball? Same thing for baseball? Have them start when it gets warm and just suck it up with trips to Tennessee and Kentucky? I looked up soccer's non-conference games: Fort Wayne, Indy, Cincy (got canceled), Indy again, and Charleston for EIU game. Should those all be changed? And if so, to what? Conference games are what they are.

I'm not trying to be a punk here either. I think ISU relies way to much on fees from their students. It's the easy way to do things. Same thing with Red Alert charging to get into games.....again Easy. Doesn't make it right. My kid plays travel baseball. Our team pays to get into a baseball tourney. Then they dare to charge parents a gate fee for admission. The same thing going down at ISU with fees and Red Alert and tickets for students in general. Stupid.

Also, where does Title 9 come in? You want to strip down non revenue sports to the bare bones, how does that fly with Title 9?

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

There's alot to digest here. I agree about the weight room. I was on record saying the indoor facility should have been brick and mortar to include things like a weight room, indoor track, etc. But where does the money come from? You say take from the other sports, but what do they have to take from?

You say we are wasting $$$'s on facilities on sports that students/alumn's do not attend. What facilities are those? I thought you might mean Golf, but that one doesn't add up to me, as they have a huge donor that has earmarked only for golf. Baseball? Their new hitting area? Didn't DeJong throw the cash or most of it for that? And while we are on that subject, it's okay......but let's not kid ourselves, it's not fantastic. I don't know of any facilities for let's call them non-revenue sports that are we are dumping so much money into it.

Sort of the same with Staff resources. Salary? I don't think our non-revenue coaches are overpaid. Do you? I would imagine we are probably in the upper 1/2 for most of those sports and their coaches' contracts. Probably because there are always going to be schools like Indiana State, Valpo, and Evansville, who aren't going to pay a ton for their coaches. Again, I may be wrong on this.

So what else is there? Are non-revenue sports at ISU chartering planes for all their trips? Should they be bussing to every single event to say money? No more trips to Arizona or Florida or softball? Same thing for baseball? Have them start when it gets warm and just suck it up with trips to Tennessee and Kentucky? I looked up soccer's non-conference games: Fort Wayne, Indy, Cincy (got canceled), Indy again, and Charleston for EIU game. Should those all be changed? And if so, to what? Conference games are what they are.

I'm not trying to be a punk here either. I think ISU relies way to much on fees from their students. It's the easy way to do things. Same thing with Red Alert charging to get into games.....again Easy. Doesn't make it right. My kid plays travel baseball. Our team pays to get into a baseball tourney. Then they dare to charge parents a gate fee for admission. The same thing going down at ISU with fees and Red Alert and tickets for students in general. Stupid.

Also, where does Title 9 come in? You want to strip down non revenue sports to the bare bones, how does that fly with Title 9?

Want more of the same then don’t change and/or come up with excuses not too change. Ex….Title IX is a red herring…yes we got to be compliant and it is a consideration but it is not an obstacle. Many universities are making cuts and remain title IX compliant. Our current athletic offering is not the only way to be title IX compliant.

About 8 or 9 years ago SIU AND ISU athletic department budgets were almost identical in terms of overall revenue. SIU enrollment tanked which resulted in a huge loss of revenue to athletics due to declining student fees. SIU cut women’s and men’s tennis around 2017 and at that time it saved around 670,000 annually according to an siu press release (guessing that would be around a million now). Still under intense financial pressure SIU announced in 2020 that SIU Athletics would be forced to cut another 3,000,000 from their athletic budget. Fast forward to 2022 and SIU Athletics is surviving on a budget of 18.7 million annually and ISU athletics is at 29.9 million annually. SIU athletics was forced to make cuts because they had no choice yet they did it. They do not win the MVC All Sports Trophy but they have been superior to Isu in both football and men’s basketball. How about we force ourselves to make changes and cuts because we want to be successful in our major revenue sports. Think if we could cut expenses by 15 percent annually and allocate that amount +4,000,000 annually to facilities and amenities in football or men’s basketball. We would still be spending +7,000,000 annually on all other expenses compared to siu. Another SIU athletic department comparison with ISU, coaches/staff:

SIU…$6.2 million annually 2022
ISU..$10.8 million annually 2022

Yes a big difference in the amount spent and the magnitude is shocking to me.

Long story short change often only comes with some pain and tough decisions. Got to have a mindset that every penny matters, be it revenue generation or expense management, in order to be the best…no cuts are too small if they are made in the correct places with an overall strategy in mind.

that’s my quick take Mel and the comments are not directed at you. You are right that there is a lot to digest on this topic as well as from many angles. Btw I use SIU as an example as we have many similarities and a lot of history together.

 

[cpacmel]

All great points

 

[Phantom]

Same thing with Red Alert charging to get into games.....again Easy. Doesn't make it right. My kid plays travel baseball. Our team pays to get into a baseball tourney. Then they dare to charge parents a gate fee for admission. The same thing going down at ISU with fees and Red Alert and tickets for students in general. Stupid.

That's been one of my pet peeves about Red Alert over the years. Ever since it disbanded/broke up/separated from the AD, they've made it much more difficult for students to attend games. Especially with the current state of things, who would pay to see this crap? It was super easy and made perfect sense in '05 to just combine the All-Sport Pass with Red Alert membership. They were one and the same. You pay $50 or whatever it was for your Red Alert Pass and you get into every game for all sports for the whole year. Plus shirts, giveaways, free food at times, etc. It was a good deal that had value. Hence why it became the largest RSO ion the nation a year later. What's the value for Red Alert now if you have to join that AND pay for games? There is none. Red Alert is nothing more than a nickname with like 5 members.

This is just one example of how the marketing and awareness around campus have taken a nosedive.

 

[isuquinndog]

I'm all for cuts. Cut football right now, throw most if it at basketball and spread the rest among the other sports. Done.

 

[Adunk33]

That's been one of my pet peeves about Red Alert over the years. Ever since it disbanded/broke up/separated from the AD, they've made it much more difficult for students to attend games. Especially with the current state of things, who would pay to see this crap? It was super easy and made perfect sense in '05 to just combine the All-Sport Pass with Red Alert membership. They were one and the same. You pay $50 or whatever it was for your Red Alert Pass and you get into every game for all sports for the whole year. Plus shirts, giveaways, free food at times, etc. It was a good deal that had value. Hence why it became the largest RSO ion the nation a year later. What's the value for Red Alert now if you have to join that AND pay for games? There is none. Red Alert is nothing more than a nickname with like 5 members.

This is just one example of how the marketing and awareness around campus have taken a nosedive.

If I had to guess…there are a lot more Red Alert members than you think and 97% of them are just not active or engaged. From my understanding, it’s pretty easy to become a member. During freshman orientation, it seems to me like you’re opted in and have to opt out if you don’t want to pay the $100 over 4 years or whatever it is. Personally, I still think it’s valuable. Their merch giveaways are nice. Get free food from time to time. Product on the field/court for the high revenue sports leave something to be desired. But if you told me I’d get a handful of free meals and 10 or so shirts a year for $25/year, and not have to worry about getting tickets to homecoming or family weekend, seems to be value there.

Pre submitting edit: first year students can purchase a 4 year Red Alert pass for $100. $25/year confirmed. It’s a good value if you plan to attend the games.

 

[Phantom]

Walking back some of my previous post. Shoulda looked before I posted lol. So Red Alert membership still gets you a ticket to every home football & Men's hoops game. As it should, great. You get that $50 back just by going to a handful of games. But then the onus is on the student to actually go. Otherwise you're paying $50 for a tshirt and a couple pizzas. Not much value there, unless it was the original Micheleo's. But in any case, they should make it as easy as possible for all students to go to all home games for all sports.

 

[ISUalum19]

The reason isn't even the money, its that none of the students really care to go to the games. The product is bad. Even a few years ago when I was in school not a lot of students cared. What incentive do I have to physically go to RBA when I can sit at the pub or my friends apartment and watch the games from there? I was one of the few who showed up to each game, and that's because I grew up with ISU. If you were a new student in 2020 and knew nothing previously about ISU basketball, why would you show up after the last 4 years?

 

[Phantom]

The reason isn't even the money, its that none of the students really care to go to the games. The product is bad. Even a few years ago when I was in school not a lot of students cared. What incentive do I have to physically go to RBA when I can sit at the pub or my friends apartment and watch the games from there? I was one of the few who showed up to each game, and that's because I grew up with ISU. If you were a new student in 2020 and knew nothing previously about ISU basketball, why would you show up after the last 4 years?

Nailed it. Gotta first give a reason for them to go (winning & entertainment), then make it as easy as possible to attend, and then retain them (winning & entertainment again). I remember during Jud's first few years here as an assistant '07-'09 he had a couple razzle dazzle (in fact I think that's what they were called) plays dialed up for planned alley-oops or breakouts solely to entertain the crowd. It worked. Granted those teams had great players and athletes, but its little things like that that make the games easy to get into and more fun to watch for the casual fan that keeps them coming back. The last few years the product on the floor has been statuesque and boring.