The Big Dance

[TBS_20]

And to think almost everyone on this site was laughing at Loyola thinking they could compete in the Valley.

they better make the final four this year with who they have left to play. and if everyone comes back to loyola which i guess may happen then that could be 3 final fours in 5 years for a valley program and 4 valley final fours in the past 9 years

 

[Trey_Guidry4three]

Very happy for Porter! I always thought he was a good coach and didn't feel what happened here was completely his fault. The 8/5 ruling was devastating to the program during his time here because of some turnover we had of kids and I fully supported him being at ISU. I don't believe Porter is motivated by money and it will be interesting to see what unfolds. Part of me feels he could take the path of Mark Few, recognizing he can build a program at Loyola without the pressure or stress of being in a Power 5 conference. If he were to go to DePaul or Marquette, it would be starting over completely. If he continues at Loyola (assuming they find money to make sense for him to stay even if not near the level of larger programs), he knows that Loyola will be an annual participant in March Madness with a genuine chance of making a run.

He even knows the pressure of not winning at Illinois State and having people wanting him fired. Of the opportunities available, one of the most intriguing would be Indiana because it's truly a blue blood program and that might be enticing, just not sure if he would want the pressure that goes along with it. I'm sure the Indiana boosters were incredibly jealous of Illinois all year, feeling they were more entitled to have that type of recognition, ranking and success and the fact that Porter beat them would make him an ideal candidate in the minds of many Indiana boosters. If he could bring them back to prominence it would be an incredible accomplishment. Either way, I'm really happy for Porter and wish him the best. It'll be interesting to see what unfolds....

No chance. Although we don't know the particulars of what Loyoyla pays Porter as soon as he gets an offer in the next couple years from a major school he is gone. I want to see him stay (like I did when he was at ISU). I think Loyola is very similar to where Butler was a decade ago in terms of success/program size/ conference size.
Unfortunately, I really think Porter Moser will go a similar route as Brad Steven's did which is greener, more lucrative pastors.

 

[CaliRdBrd]

You know what else comes from winning? Money! And not just from the NCAA. It comes in the form increased enrollment due increased visibility. With increased enrollment comes more discerning enrollment procedures which means a better quality of student and more prestige.
Exactly why not buying out Muller is so shortsighted.

 

[MadBird]

All last week I told anyone who would listen that the Blers would give Illannoy fits. Most of them scoffed with a "yeah right" attitude and asked "Have you seen Illannoy play?" I answered asking them if they have seen Loyola play. Many responded by ignoring the question and said, "Illinois plays top 25 teams every week and dominates them." I responded by saying Loyola plays college basketball.

Loyola plays college basketball. So, what does that mean? They play together, there is no ego on that team. On defense, they are going to make to run your stuff for 25-30 seconds. When the Blers on on O, the opposition better be ready to play D for 30 seconds. Some teams are disciplined enough to handle it, others are not. Illannoy relies on a handful of NBA guys who think you can just outscore your opponent. That doesn't work in March.

A couple points on Illannoy: Kofi is really lazy on the defensive side of the ball. There were a number of wide open layups that the Blers got due to his inability to get into correct position on the help side. The other thing is that Illannoy chased on every screen which again lead to open layups and jumpers.

Unfortunately, we don't get to see much of the Birds in March, but watching a lowly MVC team take it to the "Crown Jewel" of Illinois basketball was a wonderful way to spend part of a Sunday afternoon.

Nine Big 10 teams made the tournament, Only 2 remain. Could very well be zero at the end of the day with none in the S16.

Couple thoughts:

Totally agree on your assessment of Loyola's "style" - good hard nosed all around game, tough kids that play together.

I'm not quite as harsh on Illini, but mostly agree too many of their players tried to play "cute" all the time, show-time ball. Screamed at the screen all year at Curbelo, and Miller in particular for showboating. Ayo, I found it hard to criticize. Georgi, DeMonte Williams for the most part are hard nosed all around players.

Kofi, I'm not sure, but I think more than lazy he was "afraid" he was gonna get cheap foul calls. Refs had it out for him in that way they usually do for a "big brute" - nobody cares if they beat up on you, but you make one move at someone else, a foul is called.

Coach Underwood tried to get them under control for a couple years and play a certain way, then this year and last to some degree let them cut loose maybe too much. Came back to bite them.

So, not sure how to evaluate this with most of the Big 10+ teams out now, but Illini lost to some teams that made the dance, but maybe weren't all that good all year - losses to Rutgers, Michigan State, Maryland. And Missouri too. NCAA teams but maybe not all that good. So losing to Loyola wasn't out of the question.

 

[Bird Friend]

Watching Oregon manhandle Iowa. Hawkeyes look lost . . .

 

[MadBird]

Watching Oregon manhandle Iowa. Hawkeyes look lost . . .

Always enjoy watching Fran get his pants taken down.

 

[bombay]

The big 10 is 6-7 in the tournament. Michigan & Maryland left.

 

[JHBird]

And to think almost everyone on this site was laughing at Loyola thinking they could compete in the Valley.

I remember being disappointed that the Valley couldn't get somebody better than Loyola....sigh.

 

[JHBird]

You know what else comes from winning? Money! And not just from the NCAA. It comes in the form increased enrollment due increased visibility. With increased enrollment comes more discerning enrollment procedures which means a better quality of student and more prestige.
Exactly why not buying out Muller is so shortsighted.

That really is true. I remember ISU people telling me how when our Football team made they FCS Final that it really helped enrollment. I can only imagine what a Loyola type run would do here. And when you think about it there's no reason why we can't be like them at some point. Just gotta want to do it.

 

[BTbird]

Porter is such and interesting story. It wasn't until his 14th year of coaching that his team finished in the top half of the conference standings. That year they ended up going to the final four. I've heard multiple media outlets refer to him as the best coach in college basketball now. It's amazing and he deserves all of the accolades he gets.

I know people think he coached for Majerus and that is what made him the coach he is today. After coaching with Majerus, Moser finished 10th, 7th, 10th, 6th, 8th, 5th with Loyola. I give him credit for learning from previous mistakes and making himself a better coach. Although, I'm sure it helped, I'm not buying the Majerus theory. IMHO.

 

[TBS_20]

What happened is loyola gave him time to build. 3 years isn't enough. Sometimes 5 isn't depending on how much you need. WhT helped him get that time was loyola jumping to a better conference and the ad knew he'd need at least 5 years. He's a product of happenstance.

 

[CaliRdBrd]

Porter is such and interesting story. It wasn't until his 14th year of coaching that his team finished in the top half of the conference standings. That year they ended up going to the final four. I've heard multiple media outlets refer to him as the best coach in college basketball now. It's amazing and he deserves all of the accolades he gets.

I know people think he coached for Majerus and that is what made him the coach he is today. After coaching with Majerus, Moser finished 10th, 7th, 10th, 6th, 8th, 5th with Loyola. I give him credit for learning from previous mistakes and making himself a better coach. Although, I'm sure it helped, I'm not buying the Majerus theory. IMHO.

It probably takes at least 4 years to clean up the program you inherited and begin to have a roster full of your own recruits; recruits that fit the style of play you’re trying to incorporate. If you buy into that theory, and I think it’s pretty legit, you need to focus on his career from year 4 or 5 on.
I’d think this would be true for any coach heading up a new program.
Conversely, if you inherit a program because the coach that left gave you the reins, that theory is likely out the window.

 

[CB2K]

It’s also about recruits. You can be a great coach but not have the personnel. Look at Duke and Michigan State. Legendary coaches that just didn’t have the personnel this year like in past years. Coach K couldn’t coach his personnel into miracle outcomes. Everyone is still limited by personnel. Look at some of DMs good teams. The Paris Lee years were tournament type teams and DM won and there were talks of him being recruited by the power 5. The problem is that the high level recruits have not been as frequent in past years and his results have not been good. However, he proved he can win and coach a good team.

Porter has found a good system ala Majerus along with good recruits. Especially one recruit — he has ridden the Krutwig horse a long while to very good results. If he stays at Loyola it will be interesting if he can maintain things without a Krutwig type player or find a new one. Porter has proven he can coach and win with good personnel and also lose with lesser talented recruits.

Ben Jacobsen has already done this time and again. Good athletic defenders, a solid big, a competent point guard and couple of guys that can hit from downtown. And hard-nosed defense. The MVC is a defense league and that’s why teams from this conference do well in the NCAA tournament.

 

[CaliRdBrd]

It’s also about recruits. You can be a great coach but not have the personnel. Look at Duke and Michigan State. Legendary coaches that just didn’t have the personnel this year like in past years. Coach K couldn’t coach his personnel into miracle outcomes. Everyone is still limited by personnel. Look at some of DMs good teams. The Paris Lee years were tournament type teams and DM won and there were talks of him being recruited by the power 5. The problem is that the high level recruits have not been as frequent in past years and his results have not been good. However, he proved he can win and coach a good team.

Porter has found a good system ala Majerus along with good recruits. Especially one recruit — he has ridden the Krutwig horse a long while to very good results. If he stays at Loyola it will be interesting if he can maintain things without a Krutwig type player or find a new one. Porter has proven he can coach and win with good personnel and also lose with lesser talented recruits.

Ben Jacobsen has already done this time and again. Good athletic defenders, a solid big, a competent point guard and couple of guys that can hit from downtown. And hard-nosed defense. The MVC is a defense league and that’s why teams from this conference do well in the NCAA tournament.

It needs to be said that the P5 schools struggle with the one and dones, which can be quite disruptive.
That said, we now have the transfer portal...

 

[stats]

Without me having to research it, can anyone tell me some good non-conference wins the Big 10 had?

 

[Bird Friend]

It needs to be said that the P5 schools struggle with the one and dones, which can be quite disruptive.
That said, we now have the transfer portal...

Yes, the one-and-let's-try-somewhere-new-before-we're-done players . . .

 

[bombay]

The PAC 12 is 11-1 in the tournament, with 4 teams in the Sweet 16. Only Colorado failed. The big 10 got 1 team in.

 

[RedbirdSoxFan]

The PAC 12 is 11-1 in the tournament, with 4 teams in the Sweet 16. Only Colorado failed. The big 10 got 1 team in.

And the (Way overrated) Big Ten started with 9 teams in the Tournament. I would not be surprised to see Florida State take out Michigan Sunday and end the Big Ten’s season! Drake probably could have beaten the Illini. USC is a very good team that is better than Illinois.

 

[TBS_20]

And the (Way overrated) Big Ten started with 9 teams in the Tournament. I would not be surprised to see Florida State take out Michigan Sunday and end the Big Ten’s season! Drake probably could have beaten the Illini. USC is a very good team that is better than Illinois.

Ha. Illinois IS the most talented team in the country. Loyola and Gonzaga are the best teams, however. Illinois would have beaten all but like 3/4 teams. Committee was being cute.

 

[MadBird]

Without me having to research it, can anyone tell me some good non-conference wins the Big 10 had?

Wisconsin beat Loyola and Louisville, Penn State beat Virginia Tech, Rutgers beat Syracuse, Iowa beat North Carolina, Ohio St. beat UCLA. Duke was beaten and ranked when Illinois played them, I think I'm right. Baylor beat Illinois. Question is, how many "good" non-con games were scheduled?