Spoiled - Let's Start Again

[Phantom]

Three years minimum. Five on the high side and, honestly, five is probably more likely for a low/mid major than others because of the new portal rules where players are all essentially playing on one-year contracts with opt outs every season and seemingly endless eligibility (Remember when we made fun of Zach Lofton when he started at New Mexico State, his 5th college, at age 23? This is somehow becoming commonplace).

Exactly what I was going to say. Though, with a few go-to guys and if everyone buys into the system, you could see significant improvement in year two (which we're all hoping for), and really ready to roll by years 3-4, provided you don't lose too many key pieces either to graduation or the portal.

I'd agree with the 3-5 years thing except how sustainable is that now? For the reasons you mentioned. A player at a mid with any significant eligibility left strings some good games together, suddenly P5 schools with big NIL budgets comes calling. That makes it harder for a mid to rebuild. You can still recruit really well and start to build and then have that talent whisked away by someone else. Personally, I f*****g hate it. It sucks that its a factor to consider.

We were kinda spoiled by the Jank years (scheduling notwithstanding, as we should've went to the tourney at least twice and maybe 3 times), because he didn't have to tear anything down. He inherited a deep, talented roster that Moser built & we won right away. The MVC was still very strong then too. Had the portal and NIL existed in those days, we would've lost half those guys and others like Oguchi and Odzic would never have transferred here.

 

[SlackBooDom]

It took Rich Herrin four years to get SIU back to above .500 overall and into the NIT, and it took five years to get them back to above .500 in conference play "back in the day" when he managed to pull the Salukis off the ash heap. Times have changed since then, and that makes it difficult to make an apples-to-apples comparison, but Herrin was a respected coach who was given the time to build the Salukis into a solid NIT/NCAA tournament program. I think Pedon might be able to accomplish something similar in slightly quicker fashion given today's college basketball environment, but let's not kid ourselves as to just how deep the hole was on his first day in the office. My guess is Pedon knows he doesn't have an open-ended time frame in which to turn things around, but I would also guess he is working with a realistic set of expectations of his own and those of his bosses.

This makes mention also of the fact RP is Kyle’s big hire and if he wants to move on from ISU aIso then basketball needs to win. Timelines need to match up there.

 

[RedbirdSoxFan]

Why would those who have used their transfer already still be around? Pedon can still ask them to leave. They would have to sit out a year if they entered the portal, but that is not ISU's problem. I don't think ISU should be keeping guys around because they have to sit out when they transfer. Like I said, not ISU's problem.

So how many new player’s do you honestly think that Pedon is going to bring in? Five off of the transfer portal is a lot.

The five players that I mentioned are also the five players that Pedon seems to trust the most, otherwise they would not be the five that he started Wednesday night.

Let’s be realistic here, Pedon is not replacing his whole team in 2023-24. These five would be the top five that are currently available to retain. And three of them are there because he recruited them. McChesney will not be asked to leave, and I doubt Lewis will be either.

 

[CaliRdBrd]

This makes mention also of the fact RP is Kyle’s big hire and if he wants to move on from aIso then basketball needs to win. Timelines need to match up there also.

Good point

 

[redbirds2000]

So how many new player’s do you honestly think that Pedon is going to bring in? Five off of the transfer portal is a lot.

The five players that I mentioned are also the five players that Pedon seems to trust the most, otherwise they would not be the five that he started Wednesday night.

Let’s be realistic here, Pedon is not replacing his whole team in 2023-24. These five would be the top five that are currently available to retain. And three of them are there because he recruited them. McChesney will not be asked to leave, and I doubt Lewis will be either.

Well, I hope the Fresh and 2 or 3 transfers are ready to hit the ground running and have a significant impact.

 

[RedbirdSoxFan]

Well, I hope the Fresh and 2 or 3 transfers are ready to hit the ground running and have a significant impact.

The two transfers we need most will be the hardest to attain. Point Guard’s and Post players are the most sought after in the portal, and the least available (fortunately we have both in our incoming freshman class).
What I would really like is for Pedon to sign a really good 2023 Small Forward and Power Forward in the spring signing period to complete a freshman class to go along with Kinziger, Pence, and Walker.

 

[redbirds2000]

The two transfers we need most will be the hardest to attain. Point Guard’s and Post players are the most sought after in the portal, and the least available (fortunately we have both in our incoming freshman class).
What I would really like is for Pedon to sign a really good 2023 Small Forward and Power Forward in the spring signing period to complete a freshman class to go along with Kinziger, Pence, and Walker.

This might be the minority opinion, but I think Walker has the best chance to make an immediate impact. Assuming he can be physically ready, I think his skill set translates well to the MVC and he could be a very difficult match up for teams.

 

[SgtHulka]

This might be the minority opinion, but I think Walker has the best chance to make an immediate impact. Assuming he can be physically ready, I think his skill set translates well to the MVC and he could be a very difficult match up for teams.

Agree

 

[SlackBooDom]

This might be the minority opinion, but I think Walker has the best chance to make an immediate impact. Assuming he can be physically ready, I think his skill set translates well to the MVC and he could be a very difficult match up for teams.

There are a grand total of four freshmen playing contributing minutes across the entire league. Two at UNI. Two at UIC. To think we will have any immediate impact from freshmen next year means we will be in the bottom half of the league again.

 

[Redbird222]

There are a grand total of four freshmen playing contributing minutes across the entire league. Two at UNI. Two at UIC. To think we will have any immediate impact from freshmen next year means we will be in the bottom half of the league again.

I rember these freshman from games we played against them this year

We just pkayed Robbie Avilia (center) for first place Indiana St who has started 10 games now and is averaging

8.1 points
3.9 rebounds
1.4 assists

Belmont has two Freshman Cade Tyson and Jakobie Gillespie. Tyson has started 13 of 15 games and is averaging 13.0 points and 4.7 rebounds while Gillespie has started 7 games and is averaging 8.4 points and 2.9 assists.

I was impressed with Tyson and Avilia.

I am pretty sure Valpo is starting a freshman too

I get your point though ... 3 freshman and what are the odds that all make significant contributions. I do think getting a couple/few of transfers or JUCOs will be important for next year

 

[RedbirdSoxFan]

I rember these freshman from games we played against them this year

We just pkayed Robbie Avilia (center) for first place Indiana St who has started 10 games now and is averaging

8.1 points
3.9 rebounds
1.4 assists

Belmont has two Freshman Cade Tyson and Jakobie Gillespie. Tyson has started 13 of 15 games and is averaging 13.0 points and 4.7 rebounds while Gillespie has started 7 games and is averaging 8.4 points and 2.9 assists.

I was impressed with Tyson and Avilia.

I am pretty sure Valpo is starting a freshman too

I get your point though ... 3 freshman and what are the odds that all make significant contributions. I do think getting a couple/few of transfers or JUCOs will be important for next year

This Redbird team could make High School kids look good.

 

[TIMMY]

This might be the minority opinion, but I think Walker has the best chance to make an immediate impact. Assuming he can be physically ready, I think his skill set translates well to the MVC and he could be a very difficult match up for teams.

I think his being ready physically is a big ask. A huge ask. I don't see him stringing significant minutes together for at least a year. Maybe 2. Hope I'm wrong.
No one will ever ask but I'd give him a plyo box/running regimen and not much else for his first 6 months, He hate me!

 

[DBird]

I think his being ready physically is a big ask. A huge ask. I don't see him stringing significant minutes together for at least a year. Maybe 2. Hope I'm wrong.
No one will ever ask but I'd give him a plyo box/running regimen and not much else for his first 6 months, He hate me!

Easy there overload with the plyo is injury waiting to happen!!

 

[TIMMY]

Easy there overload with the plyo is injury waiting to happen!!

Have you seen his jump shot? We're going to start him at 6 reps at 4 inches. It'll be years before his shins are at risk.

 

[DBird]

Have you seen his jump shot? We're going to start him at 6 reps at 4 inches. It'll be years before his shins are at risk.

Yes sir I have.
Just sayin coach. You must start slow and progress slow with plyo's. I have fought that for years with my coaches. Some think its a area of training that you can make them tough right away. They dont understand progression.
I will bet as he looses weight with his general conditioning and diet that they will try and put him on he will gain vertical.

 

[DWRedbird]

I think his being ready physically is a big ask. A huge ask. I don't see him stringing significant minutes together for at least a year. Maybe 2. Hope I'm wrong.
No one will ever ask but I'd give him a plyo box/running regimen and not much else for his first 6 months, He hate me!

I think he'll likely pick up more than a few fouls, like freshman big men often do until they learn to play D with their feet and not their big bodies, and we won't have to worry much about conditioning. That being said, he'd probably surprise us early with his stamina.

 

[Bird Friend]

Have you seen his jump shot? We're going to start him at 6 reps at 4 inches. It'll be years before his shins are at risk.

I think he was talking about the plyo getting hurt.

 

[Popsto4]

I am guessing Kasubke, Poindexter, Andrews, and Sissoko go to the portal? I am unsure of what eligibility the "seniors" have because of the Covid year, but Sandage, Knight, Lewis, Kotov, Petrakis, and Scmitt will be moving on too. Either through graduation or the portal. With the 3 Fresh signed, McChesney and Burford, that leaves 7-8 ( I am missing someone that is on scholly) scholarships to fill. Do you see any of those guys staying listed above? If so, why? I just don't see anyone on that list getting us to the top of the MVC. I guess they could be role players, but why burn the scholarship when you can take a chance in the portal and the worst case scenario you land another role player.

I highly doubt Mal would transfer again. Pedon have stated he know exactly what’s he’s going to get from Mal. The staff also know he’s doing a decent job while playing out of position offensively. Defensively he may be our best perimeter defender. He brings more to the table than what he’s shown because of playing out of position. You have to remember he have t logged these types of minutes in over 3 years going back to high school. If a true pg and a true big gets here next year it will be very favorable for the program. Trust the process.

 

[Redbird28]

I highly doubt Mal would transfer again. Pedon have stated he know exactly what’s he’s going to get from Mal. The staff also know he’s doing a decent job while playing out of position offensively. Defensively he may be our best perimeter defender. He brings more to the table than what he’s shown because of playing out of position. You have to remember he have t logged these types of minutes in over 3 years going back to high school. If a true pg and a true big gets here next year it will be very favorable for the program. Trust the process.

Agree - I feel like that's what he brought with him from Virginia. You aren't going there unless you can play D. We need more of those types of players to firm up our worst area. Everything else will fall into place once we stop giving up easy stuff.

 

[crazzymark]

It took Rich Herrin four years to get SIU back to above .500 overall and into the NIT, and it took five years to get them back to above .500 in conference play "back in the day" when he managed to pull the Salukis off the ash heap. Times have changed since then, and that makes it difficult to make an apples-to-apples comparison, but Herrin was a respected coach who was given the time to build the Salukis into a solid NIT/NCAA tournament program. I think Pedon might be able to accomplish something similar in slightly quicker fashion given today's college basketball environment, but let's not kid ourselves as to just how deep the hole was on his first day in the office. My guess is Pedon knows he doesn't have an open-ended time frame in which to turn things around, but I would also guess he is working with a realistic set of expectations of his own and those of his bosses.

Pre portal..apple and Oranges.