Righting the ship

[redbirdron1]

I'm totally on board with Racine.

It must start with the D. First, instead of being recognized as the team in the Valley with athletes
and so much potential year to year, I'd much rather have the tough, year in year out hard nosed D to rely
on. Maybe we have years where the players who are early in their ISU careers are learning the art of jump shots
and such. I've communicated this very thing to the Staff - I'd suggest Dan go to all AAU programs and tell them he
wants to know about all players who value and bring the D/rebounding/hardnose play over the scores of kids
who love to shoot from deep. Give me the kid who's a lockdown defender and let's build a program that way. Dan and his
staff taught Paris and Tony how to shoot over their 4 years.

You focus on the top flight Defensive kid and you separate yourself from most and put yourself in a position to bring an elite stopper
to your program. I firmly believe a lot of these kids get overlooked and everyone or at least so many recruit the sexy looking guy who's long, athletic
and love to heave from deep. Runs like a deer, jumps quite well and able to showcase dunks in practice and on you tube - enough..... give me the guy with the
bloody nose and shuts off baseline. Give me the guy who shoves his rear into the opponent and gets the rebound and give me a guy or 2 who can
grab a teammate and affectionately remind them to focus.

Now, the challenge from a fanbase is this won't happen overnight. Dan should start by focusing on the 4 year player and for the most
part get away from JC's unless in a pinch. I'll be the first to admit the frustration when we score 16 in the fist half as we can't find the bucket
but we've got to build it this way. Offensively, I ask for one thing - kids that can handle the ball and drive, get to the line and be somewhat competitive offensively
while Dan/staff teach you the art of shooting.

 

[Racine Bird 3813]

Yes. Need to start recruiting more 4 year guys and get them to buy into and mold into the system. Great defensive teams will always get your further than great offensive teams in BB. There is going to be nights where the ball won't go through the net. Rebounding, boxing out, fighting through screens, are things that take effort. Don't have to be a 4 or 5* players to do those things.

 

[redbirdron1]

And Racine, we don't get the 4 and 5 star kids anyway and we're most likely not going to in my lifetime. So be it.

What I believe is that while I watch opponents consistently blow by our perimeter D - these kids today can dribble/drive
every bit as fast as most kids sprint. It is a SKILL today to keep a kid from driving to the hoop - the excellent programs rely
on the shot blockers to make up for the players who can't consistently guard. And.....this year we don't have the plan B on the inside.

Again, change the paradigm on who we bring to campus - for Dan, it may be about survival.

 

[Adunk33]

Fair warning, this post is slightly off-topic but I didn't feel it warranted a new thread.

I spent a lot of time at the State Farm Holiday Classic here in Bloomington over the past three days. This is one of, if not the biggest Holiday Tournament in the state. Defense. Defense. Defense. The teams that played it went far, the teams that didn't, spent their days in the consolation bracket. Fieldcrest High School had warm-ups that said DWC on the back. It took me a minute but it stands for defense wins championships. They had a commitment to defense, but not a ton of talent which caused them to lose to Providence St.Mel.

I'm not sure there was a ton of D1 talent out there but I am surprised I didn't see Muller or any of his staff out there. Machesney Park- Hershey had a PG with one D1 offer from Stetson who gave his all, could score and pass the heck of the ball. He also dropped 30 points on 2020 target from U-High, Alex Wood.

Watching all the games with a fellow Redbird fan, we were in aw at Kenwood High School out of the south side of Chicago. They were ultra-athletic as most City teams, but that is not what impressed me. They only carried eight players on their entire team, each one played starters type minutes. Kenwood played very up tempo and sped up the game. The lost in the championship to Rock Island as depth became an issue. But the thing that impressed me most about them was all eight flew to every ball and were committed on the defensive end. They ran a really aggressive trap which led to steals and transition buckets. My ISU fan friend and I agreed, we should send that tape to Muller to show his team what full team commitment to defense can do.

In their post game interview, nearly every ISU player has said something along the lines of "we need to be more focused on defense. A lot of times, shooting doesn't travel well, but defense travels to every game," or "we know we gotta focus on defense and the offense will come." By this, we know Muller is telling them the right stuff, they just haven't done it. It also doesn't help that by ISU's next game, it will have been 10 days since they've played, and the fan base (and team) probably has a bad taste in their mouths from the last one. Most teams in the conference have played at least two games during that time.

Call me crazy, say fire Muller, or whatever, but I still believe the team gets on a roll during the conference season. The first three games are very important because all are winnable and could help create some distance between ISU and the bottom half of the league. I never put that much importance in the noncon, as most of you know. We play for the conference season, and that tips off in three days.

Who knows, maybe the shots will start falling, we will start dropping 90 on teams, and the defense won't matter. HA.

 

[Redbird222]

It pains me to write this but look at the direction Bradley is heading in year 4 under Wardle and look at our direction in year 7 under Dan. EVERY year has seems like a damn ? under Dan. I never know what to expect from year to year and game to game. That type if inconsistency is not good. With that said, I think Dan cares deeply about ISU and I hope they can get it done. I think Dan has worked hard and deserves to get over the hump!

First place to start is defense. With as medicore as the MVC is this year if they can defend, rebound, take care of the ball, and just be subpar on offense they can win the league.

Well for starters Muller inherited a program from a coach who had us in the top 3 in conference most years and in the tournament championship running most years and... He's pretty much maintained that spot. The needle only needed to move a little under him, and to be fair we did tie for.first a.couple years ago. Just can't get over that NCAA hump

Badley had been a play in program for a.decade, he wiped out the entire roster and took his.lumps in the first couple of years. Upward needle movement from that is really no accomplishment. But how far has the needle.moved so far? 5th place last year. This year is still TBD.

True but Dan also had a to basically start from scratch. After the first year, Zeisloft and Jones were the only returning players. He essentially had to recruit a whole new team similar to Wardle. Dan's class went 17 - 1 in conference their senior year. We will see what Wardle's class achieve this year ... I am betting it will be worse than a tie for first. I have seen Bradley play a couple of times this year .... they are blah and inconsistent too. They loss to EIU at home and wait for this boys .... Chicago State beat EIU by 8!!! Bradley does have that great last second win against a 4 - 8 SE Louisiana team. Seems to me they are the same boat as ISU ... their fans have to be scratching theirs heads too.

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

It pains me to write this but look at the direction Bradley is heading in year 4 under Wardle and look at our direction in year 7 under Dan. EVERY year has seems like a damn ? under Dan. I never know what to expect from year to year and game to game. That type if inconsistency is not good. With that said, I think Dan cares deeply about ISU and I hope they can get it done. I think Dan has worked hard and deserves to get over the hump!

First place to start is defense. With as medicore as the MVC is this year if they can defend, rebound, take care of the ball, and just be subpar on offense they can win the league.

Agree Bradley has improved but I can not agree with envying Bradley’s current b-ball program. They have a ways to go and additional improvement gets a whole lot harder to obtain. I do think Wardle is building their hoop program in a better manner via utilizing more 4 year players vs using many juco/transfers which creates a fast spinning revolving door and a short bench for ISU (as well as eligibility issues too)

 

[CaliRdBrd]

As we draw near to conference play we are in the realization that the only way to the tournament is winning in St Louis. Can Muller right the ship? I believe so. I think Evans and Tinsley find their strokes and the offense finally clicks. If those two can do that the pressure comes off the rest. It will free up driving lanes. Most importantly it will allow the defense to get back and set up. How will Redbird fans feel about this session after that non conference disaster if we go on a run and make the tourney? The talent is there.

Just getting to the NCAA, if that even happens, is not enough. We need to win at least one game.

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

And Racine, we don't get the 4 and 5 star kids anyway and we're most likely not going to in my lifetime. So be it.

What I believe is that while I watch opponents consistently blow by our perimeter D - these kids today can dribble/drive
every bit as fast as most kids sprint. It is a SKILL today to keep a kid from driving to the hoop - the excellent programs rely
on the shot blockers to make up for the players who can't consistently guard. And.....this year we don't have the plan B on the inside.

Again, change the paradigm on who we bring to campus - for Dan, it may be about survival.

I believe this ISU team generally does try to hustle while on defense but at the guard level/ perimeter they are either not quick enough, not tall/long enough, not strong enough or a combo. ISU guards may need to back a few inches off the defender and go into contain the defender mode vs trying to be up in the defenders face pressuring the ball only to then get consistently beat off the dribble which creates all types of defensive problems.

Can someone name one current ISU guard who is a very good or great defender? We do not have, IMO and actually have a few weak ones (sorry Key)

 

[Birdman07]

As we draw near to conference play we are in the realization that the only way to the tournament is winning in St Louis. Can Muller right the ship? I believe so. I think Evans and Tinsley find their strokes and the offense finally clicks. If those two can do that the pressure comes off the rest. It will free up driving lanes. Most importantly it will allow the defense to get back and set up. How will Redbird fans feel about this session after that non conference disaster if we go on a run and make the tourney? The talent is there.

Just getting to the NCAA, if that even happens, is not enough. We need to win at least one game.

:text-+1:

 

[bombay]

And Racine, we don't get the 4 and 5 star kids anyway and we're most likely not going to in my lifetime. So be it.

What I believe is that while I watch opponents consistently blow by our perimeter D - these kids today can dribble/drive
every bit as fast as most kids sprint. It is a SKILL today to keep a kid from driving to the hoop - the excellent programs rely
on the shot blockers to make up for the players who can't consistently guard. And.....this year we don't have the plan B on the inside.

Again, change the paradigm on who we bring to campus - for Dan, it may be about survival.

We clearly don't get 4 and 5 star players now, but Bubbles Hawkins and Cyrus Mann were Top 10 national players when they came here and Roger Powell was top 25. We had a number of other players that would have been 4* if that system existed then.

 

[SgtHulka]

And Racine, we don't get the 4 and 5 star kids anyway and we're most likely not going to in my lifetime. So be it.

What I believe is that while I watch opponents consistently blow by our perimeter D - these kids today can dribble/drive
every bit as fast as most kids sprint. It is a SKILL today to keep a kid from driving to the hoop - the excellent programs rely
on the shot blockers to make up for the players who can't consistently guard. And.....this year we don't have the plan B on the inside.

Again, change the paradigm on who we bring to campus - for Dan, it may be about survival.

We clearly don't get 4 and 5 star players now, but Bubbles Hawkins and Cyrus Mann were Top 10 national players when they came here and Roger Powell was top 25. We had a number of other players that would have been 4* if that system existed then.

Different times for sure good Dr

 

[Birdman07]

From the ESPN article regarding Houston football coach being fired.

"winning is defined at the University of Houston as 10-2 ... We'll fire coaches at 8-4"

This is how ISU needs to start thinking. The above numbers is success is 83% and failure is 67%. I realize thay quote is regarding football but Coach Muller is in the 50's.

 

[SgtHulka]

From the ESPN article regarding Houston football coach being fired.

"winning is defined at the University of Houston as 10-2 ... We'll fire coaches at 8-4"

This is how ISU needs to start thinking. The above numbers is success is 83% and failure is 67%. I realize thay quote is regarding football but Coach Muller is in the 50's.

I get your point but do you really base a decision like that on a partial season? Would you fire a coach who started the season 1-1? That's in the 50s?

 

[Birdman07]

From the ESPN article regarding Houston football coach being fired.

"winning is defined at the University of Houston as 10-2 ... We'll fire coaches at 8-4"

This is how ISU needs to start thinking. The above numbers is success is 83% and failure is 67%. I realize thay quote is regarding football but Coach Muller is in the 50's.

I get your point but do you really base a decision like that on a partial season? Would you fire a coach who started the season 1-1? That's in the 50s?

No, I would give any coach a few seasons to figure it out and get their own type of players in their system, of course. My in the 50's statement was regarding his whole 6.5 years at the helm. I really was wishing Muller would be the one and maybe even stay because he has ties if ISU gave a fair salary even though they can't compete with P6 money. Who knows, maybe he still is because he's not going anywhere. Like someone else said he was 2017 coach of the year so he has a grace period and I'm excited about the young players here. I was excited about this team, as well. Head scratcher. But, the team two years ago sucked in the first two months so there is that to hold on to this season and nobody is running away with anything.

 

[Redbird222]

From the ESPN article regarding Houston football coach being fired.

"winning is defined at the University of Houston as 10-2 ... We'll fire coaches at 8-4"

This is how ISU needs to start thinking. The above numbers is success is 83% and failure is 67%. I realize thay quote is regarding football but Coach Muller is in the 50's.

I get your point but do you really base a decision like that on a partial season? Would you fire a coach who started the season 1-1? That's in the 50s?

No, I would give any coach a few seasons to figure it out and get their own type of players in their system, of course. My in the 50's statement was regarding his whole 6.5 years at the helm. I really was wishing Muller would be the one and maybe even stay because he has ties if ISU gave a fair salary even though they can't compete with P6 money. Who knows, maybe he still is because he's not going anywhere. Like someone else said he was 2017 coach of the year so he has a grace period and I'm excited about the young players here. I was excited about this team, as well. Head scratcher. But, the team two years ago sucked in the first two months so there is that to hold on to this season and nobody is running away with anything.

Smithson 66 -18 78.6%
Stallings 123 - 63 66.1%
Donewald 207- 122 62.9%
Jankovich 104 - 64 61.9%
Robinson 62 - 41 60.2%
Muller 129 - 86 60.0%
Bender 60 -57 51.3%
Richardson 56 -64 46.7%
Moser 51 - 67 43.2%

Hopefully we beat Valpo and Evasville so he can stay in the 60s percentage

 

[SgtHulka]

From the ESPN article regarding Houston football coach being fired.

"winning is defined at the University of Houston as 10-2 ... We'll fire coaches at 8-4"

This is how ISU needs to start thinking. The above numbers is success is 83% and failure is 67%. I realize thay quote is regarding football but Coach Muller is in the 50's.

I get your point but do you really base a decision like that on a partial season? Would you fire a coach who started the season 1-1? That's in the 50s?

No, I would give any coach a few seasons to figure it out and get their own type of players in their system, of course. My in the 50's statement was regarding his whole 6.5 years at the helm. I really was wishing Muller would be the one and maybe even stay because he has ties if ISU gave a fair salary even though they can't compete with P6 money. Who knows, maybe he still is because he's not going anywhere. Like someone else said he was 2017 coach of the year so he has a grace period and I'm excited about the young players here. I was excited about this team, as well. Head scratcher. But, the team two years ago sucked in the first two months so there is that to hold on to this season and nobody is running away with anything.

Gotcha. I missundertook you

 

[SoCalRedbird]

From the ESPN article regarding Houston football coach being fired.

"winning is defined at the University of Houston as 10-2 ... We'll fire coaches at 8-4"

This is how ISU needs to start thinking. The above numbers is success is 83% and failure is 67%. I realize thay quote is regarding football but Coach Muller is in the 50's.

Illinois fired Ron Zook after two consecutive bowl appearances (rare). Nebraska fired Bo Pelini in 2014 with a 67-27 record and never having won less than 9 games a season.

Both fan bases and athletic departments felt entitled to even more. Both were fired, and both programs consequently sank into the cellar of FBS irrelevance. Neither have recovered.

I don't want that attitude or sense of entitlement at Illinois State or among our fans. This has been an altogether shitty season, but Muller's body of work demands MUCH more than some are willing to give.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[bombay]

And Racine, we don't get the 4 and 5 star kids anyway and we're most likely not going to in my lifetime. So be it.

What I believe is that while I watch opponents consistently blow by our perimeter D - these kids today can dribble/drive
every bit as fast as most kids sprint. It is a SKILL today to keep a kid from driving to the hoop - the excellent programs rely
on the shot blockers to make up for the players who can't consistently guard. And.....this year we don't have the plan B on the inside.

Again, change the paradigm on who we bring to campus - for Dan, it may be about survival.

We clearly don't get 4 and 5 star players now, but Bubbles Hawkins and Cyrus Mann were Top 10 national players when they came here and Roger Powell was top 25. We had a number of other players that would have been 4* if that system existed then.

Different times for sure good Dr

Yessir. I'd be surprised if we didn't have a beer together at Bingo's, Barney's Caboose, Digger's, C2 East or somewhere back in the day. Timmy, too.

 

[RedbirdSoxFan]

From the ESPN article regarding Houston football coach being fired.

"winning is defined at the University of Houston as 10-2 ... We'll fire coaches at 8-4"

This is how ISU needs to start thinking. The above numbers is success is 83% and failure is 67%. I realize thay quote is regarding football but Coach Muller is in the 50's.

Illinois fired Ron Zook after two consecutive bowl appearances (rare). Nebraska fired Bo Pelini in 2014 with a 67-27 record and never having won less than 9 games a season.

Both fan bases and athletic departments felt entitled to even more. Both were fired, and both programs consequently sank into the cellar of FBS irrelevance. Neither have recovered.

I don't want that attitude or sense of entitlement at Illinois State or among our fans. This has been an altogether shitty season, but Muller's body of work demands MUCH more than some are willing to give.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Beating two bad FCS teams and four bad big ten teams will get you a bowl game. That is normally what the Illini do to get a bowl game.

 

[TIMMY]

We clearly don't get 4 and 5 star players now, but Bubbles Hawkins and Cyrus Mann were Top 10 national players when they came here and Roger Powell was top 25. We had a number of other players that would have been 4* if that system existed then.

Different times for sure good Dr

Yessir. I'd be surprised if we didn't have a beer together at Bingo's, Barney's Caboose, Digger's, C2 East or somewhere back in the day. Timmy, too.

Add the OLD Shannigans to the list Governor!!!