Parting is such sweet sorrow

[gobirds72]

For crying out loud, no one wants mediocre teams. Nor is winning year in year out mediocre. Not winning as much as we all desire perhaps but a long way from mediocre.

I think 19-12...and a CBI bid for a team with 3-4 seniors is a failed season. You can call it what you want. Anything less than an NCAA bid for me would be a failure. I know you sound excited just to be 1/120 teams playing in March. I see it different.

 

[ricohill]

Thanks for the correction, Rico. So, what is it we should have, or still could do to guarantee that all important NCAA bid?

Again, I certainly understand the frustration. I have lived it for 2 decades. So has my family of Redbirds. But you can curse the wind all you want. What are the ideas? We have had many different coaches and admins. Are you saying they all have been substandard and every one does not get it? Really the one thing I can think of, that was really in our control was letting Porter go when we did. Of course that's easy to say now. At the time the consensus what that it needed to be done.

Personally, I think it has been, mostly dumb luck. and the fact that the P5's have made at larges virtually impossible for the last 12 years for anybody but them. At the same time, they have made it easier for them.

But let's hear it, Rico? You can keep b1tching if you wish. I am tired of all of that from a few of you, personally. I will hang up and listen...

I'm in a hurry so I'll be quick and won't be great.

Never should have fired Donewald. Built the program into a national program (you could argue Smithson, but was going to put us on probation and never made the NCAA Tournament, now that is legit getting cheated. Those teams were legit top 25 contenders, but couldn't do it as an independent). Splintered the fan base right as they were moving into Redbird.

Never should have hired Richardson. Greenspan got lazy as he was leaving the program. Huge mistake for a guy that had only been a high school coach before (see Yachlich).

No problem with firing Porter. He was too young and not a good enough coach at the time.

Janko needed to schedule better/not lose to Indiana State or bad teams.

Muller, recruited too many players with suspect backgrounds. Roster turnover that has killed momentum. of the program. I like Muller and still support him. He's in a position where he doesn't have all the support and resources he needs.

 

[Redbirdwarrior]

For crying out loud, no one wants mediocre teams. Nor is winning year in year out mediocre. Not winning as much as we all desire perhaps but a long way from mediocre.

I think 19-12...and a CBI bid for a team with 3-4 seniors is a failed season. You can call it what you want. Anything less than an NCAA bid for me would be a failure. I know you sound excited just to be 1/120 teams playing in March. I see it different.

I need to hear it from you, 72. ISU was screwed by the committee 2 years ago. Not only was that a tournament team, but it was a tournament team with Elite 8 potential. And we didn't get in because we are in the Valley and the committee thought that "big name" schools with far worse resumes, top to bottom, would make more money. Literally no other reason.

This is why I take the "20 year no tournament" stat and plop a giant font 25 size asterisk on it. If a 26 win (12-1) conference champion with T25 wins isn't getting into the show, then the deck is clearly stacked against.

Me, I enjoy the product and would rather have 10 seasons of 19-12 and the NIT/CBI than 8 seasons of sub 16 wins, one 20 win NIT season and 1 22 win Arch Madness tourney title.

Remember when Drake made the tourney a decade ago and the entire landscape of their program shifted and they were getting all those 3-4 star recruits and were never plopped back down into the Thursday games again? Neither do I.

 

[The Beak]

For crying out loud, no one wants mediocre teams. Nor is winning year in year out mediocre. Not winning as much as we all desire perhaps but a long way from mediocre.

I think 19-12...and a CBI bid for a team with 3-4 seniors is a failed season. You can call it what you want. Anything less than an NCAA bid for me would be a failure. I know you sound excited just to be 1/120 teams playing in March. I see it different.

I need to hear it from you, 72. ISU was screwed by the committee 2 years ago. Not only was that a tournament team, but it was a tournament team with Elite 8 potential. And we didn't get in because we are in the Valley and the committee thought that "big name" schools with far worse resumes, top to bottom, would make more money. Literally no other reason.

This is why I take the "20 year no tournament" stat and plop a giant font 25 size asterisk on it. If a 26 win (12-1) conference champion with T25 wins isn't getting into the show, then the deck is clearly stacked against.

Me, I enjoy the product and would rather have 10 seasons of 19-12 and the NIT/CBI than 8 seasons of sub 16 wins, one 20 win NIT season and 1 22 win Arch Madness tourney title.

Remember when Drake made the tourney a decade ago and the entire landscape of their program shifted and they were getting all those 3-4 star recruits and were never plopped back down into the Thursday games again? Neither do I.

This from Redbirdwarrior.

And if my spidey sense is working ... Johnb1whatever types from the same keyboard as TreyGuidrey3, goBirds72, and likely Yoga. Among the four of them maybe they can come up with the 100 million dollars needed to boost this program to what he keeps digging about.

Sorry Quinn, I respect that you're a fair and good guy, but this troll is a wart on what was once one of the best message boards around.

 

[ISU FAN 1]

You guys are correct. 20 years of losing is not correct. However, it's been 20 years of not good enough basketball to get an at-large bid and 20 years of not being good enough to win the tournament. If the NCAA Tournament isn't the standard of excellence then what is the point of fielding a team?

Our two best chances for an at-large bid lost the conference tournament championship games by 30 (2008) and 20 (2017). We haven't beaten a top 25 team from a Power 5 conference in 31 years (0-15 since beating Iowa in 87). Haven't been ranked in the AP poll since November 24, 1997. 5-27 vs. the Top 25 since 2007 when Janko took over.

Those aren't numbers of a successful basketball program in my opinion.

0-15 over a 30 year span. And I’ll guess a great percentage of those were away from RA. It’s hard to expect to beat top 25 P5s away from RA. It’s a bigger commentary on how chickenshit top 25 P5s are, that we can only get 15 chances in 30 years.

 

[ISU FAN 1]

For crying out loud, no one wants mediocre teams. Nor is winning year in year out mediocre. Not winning as much as we all desire perhaps but a long way from mediocre.

I think 19-12...and a CBI bid for a team with 3-4 seniors is a failed season. You can call it what you want. Anything less than an NCAA bid for me would be a failure. I know you sound excited just to be 1/120 teams playing in March. I see it different.

I need to hear it from you, 72. ISU was screwed by the committee 2 years ago. Not only was that a tournament team, but it was a tournament team with Elite 8 potential. And we didn't get in because we are in the Valley and the committee thought that "big name" schools with far worse resumes, top to bottom, would make more money. Literally no other reason.

This is why I take the "20 year no tournament" stat and plop a giant font 25 size asterisk on it. If a 26 win (12-1) conference champion with T25 wins isn't getting into the show, then the deck is clearly stacked against.

Me, I enjoy the product and would rather have 10 seasons of 19-12 and the NIT/CBI than 8 seasons of sub 16 wins, one 20 win NIT season and 1 22 win Arch Madness tourney title.

Remember when Drake made the tourney a decade ago and the entire landscape of their program shifted and they were getting all those 3-4 star recruits and were never plopped back down into the Thursday games again? Neither do I.

I thought the team 2 years ago had 2nd weekend potential, but the 2nd round NIT home game loss put some perspective on that. ISU has mastered laying an egg in anything resembling a big moment.

 

[DBird]

Rico, respectfully, I stopped reading at "these are the only sports that matter". That's false and a complete slap in the face to all the other men and women who put on a uniform that has Reggie on it.

Thank You from the father of 2 kids who wore college uniforms in other sports that DO indeed matter.

:text-+1:
Cross and Track coach here!

 

[ISU FAN 1]

I have a kid currently playing a not so “meaningle$$” to me D1 sport. I find it very $ignificant.

 

[gobirds72]

For crying out loud, no one wants mediocre teams. Nor is winning year in year out mediocre. Not winning as much as we all desire perhaps but a long way from mediocre.

I think 19-12...and a CBI bid for a team with 3-4 seniors is a failed season. You can call it what you want. Anything less than an NCAA bid for me would be a failure. I know you sound excited just to be 1/120 teams playing in March. I see it different.

I need to hear it from you, 72. ISU was screwed by the committee 2 years ago. Not only was that a tournament team, but it was a tournament team with Elite 8 potential. And we didn't get in because we are in the Valley and the committee thought that "big name" schools with far worse resumes, top to bottom, would make more money. Literally no other reason.

This is why I take the "20 year no tournament" stat and plop a giant font 25 size asterisk on it. If a 26 win (12-1) conference champion with T25 wins isn't getting into the show, then the deck is clearly stacked against.

Me, I enjoy the product and would rather have 10 seasons of 19-12 and the NIT/CBI than 8 seasons of sub 16 wins, one 20 win NIT season and 1 22 win Arch Madness tourney title.

Remember when Drake made the tourney a decade ago and the entire landscape of their program shifted and they were getting all those 3-4 star recruits and were never plopped back down into the Thursday games again? Neither do I.

Yes, we were very deserving Paris senior year. Do I think we should have gotten in...Yes! If we didn’t get spanked by Wichita State in the Championship game we probably would have. We have made the championship game of the conference tournament how many times? Usually, we choke away a 14 point lead...or fail to show up. The only way to guarantee yourself the right to play is to win when it counts. We fail to do that. That’s not only on Muller...but Jankovic and Muller.

 

[gobirds72]

I think 19-12...and a CBI bid for a team with 3-4 seniors is a failed season. You can call it what you want. Anything less than an NCAA bid for me would be a failure. I know you sound excited just to be 1/120 teams playing in March. I see it different.

I need to hear it from you, 72. ISU was screwed by the committee 2 years ago. Not only was that a tournament team, but it was a tournament team with Elite 8 potential. And we didn't get in because we are in the Valley and the committee thought that "big name" schools with far worse resumes, top to bottom, would make more money. Literally no other reason.

This is why I take the "20 year no tournament" stat and plop a giant font 25 size asterisk on it. If a 26 win (12-1) conference champion with T25 wins isn't getting into the show, then the deck is clearly stacked against.

Me, I enjoy the product and would rather have 10 seasons of 19-12 and the NIT/CBI than 8 seasons of sub 16 wins, one 20 win NIT season and 1 22 win Arch Madness tourney title.

Remember when Drake made the tourney a decade ago and the entire landscape of their program shifted and they were getting all those 3-4 star recruits and were never plopped back down into the Thursday games again? Neither do I.

I thought the team 2 years ago had 2nd weekend potential, but the 2nd round NIT home game loss put some perspective on that. ISU has mastered laying an egg in anything resembling a big moment.

:text-+1:

 

[TIMMY]

Rico, respectfully, I stopped reading at "these are the only sports that matter". That's false and a complete slap in the face to all the other men and women who put on a uniform that has Reggie on it.

Thank You from the father of 2 kids who wore college uniforms in other sports that DO indeed matter.

:text-+1:
Cross and Track coach here!

That's so cool. Thanks for giving back to the kids DBird!!!
My daughter is a head xc / track coach and 1st year teacher in Indiana.

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

For crying out loud, no one wants mediocre teams. Nor is winning year in year out mediocre. Not winning as much as we all desire perhaps but a long way from mediocre.

I think 19-12...and a CBI bid for a team with 3-4 seniors is a failed season. You can call it what you want. Anything less than an NCAA bid for me would be a failure. I know you sound excited just to be 1/120 teams playing in March. I see it different.

I need to hear it from you, 72. ISU was screwed by the committee 2 years ago. Not only was that a tournament team, but it was a tournament team with Elite 8 potential. And we didn't get in because we are in the Valley and the committee thought that "big name" schools with far worse resumes, top to bottom, would make more money. Literally no other reason.

I do agree that the 2016-17 ISU team had the talent to be an ncaa tournament team but I differ from there in that I believe they ultimately underachieved and failed to earn/prove it. The Redbirds were 27-6 at the time of selection Sunday, 17-1 MVC and tied for 1st in conference with the following notables:

1. Lost at Murray State in the season opener. Murray State finished the season 16-17, 8-8 in the ovc and was seeded 7th in their conference tournament. A bad loss and the one the sits atop the Redbird resume when you look at their record...meaning unfortunately it sticks out like a yellow pimple on the end of a nose.

2. Lost the 3rd game of the season at TCU, at team that was 19-15 on selection Sunday, 6-12 in the Big 12 and finished 7th place in their conference.

3. Lost at Tulsa, 15-17 record, 8-10 AAC, 7th place in conference

4. Finished 3rd in a weak/marginal Diamond Head Classic Holiday tournament with a loss to San Francisco, 20-12, 10-8 WCC, 4th in the WCC.

5. Finished 17-1 (but so did another MVC team) regular season in the 12th RPI conference with Sun Belt and MAC right on the MVC heels as respects to RPI. Had an impressive win over the Shockers at home when unfortunately not on national TV only to get absolutely obliterated by Wichita 2 times in a row when the game was on national TV.

6. No notable wins outside of the home Wichita game.


I do not see this team as being snubbed rather the ISU team failed to win/compete in 2016-17when it mattered most which resulted in some bad resume/optic losses. The overall weak 26 wins were not enough to overcome the losses/failure to win tournaments. The reality of what should have been I am sure is painful for Muller and the team.

Beyond that not certain how one can say that ISU team was an elite 8 potential team. If i am mischaracterizing let me know.

 

[Bird Friend]

Women's Volleyball made the NCAA tournament this year, Softball and Soccer tend to be among the best programs in the midwest and top 20% in the country. It seems like ISU ALWAYS has a track and field athlete competing for a national championship. All this and women's basketball has an arrow pointing to the moon at the moment.

You need to get out of your bubble and notice the DEPARTMENT instead of just what you can watch from your couch on ESPN+

A. I've attended almost every football home and road games for several years. Every home men's basketball and several road games. Go to Volleyball, Women's basketball, and baseball games. So I don't watch from my couch.

B. Softball won 38% of it's games last year. Women's Soccer was .500. Baseball was 22-30 and fired it's coach (2nd one Larry has hired). Women's basketball is currently 2-4 coming off a 14-16 season (this I give them some slack because of the situation), Men's basketball is struggling, football is sliding backwards. We finished 3rd in the MVC all-sports trophy without Wichita that would have won it ( Illinois State won five of six all-sports championships from 1996-01). We can't build or finish the facilities we have.

I give Volleyball credit. They won and that is great.

I look at the whole department and I see the big picture. We are not going in a positive direction.

Don’t waste your time. Many on here are happy with mediocrity. They think it’s all the NCAA’s fault that we haven’t sniffed the tournament in 20 years. It’s a conspiracy against us.

Pony up the necessary cash to make us more relevant then. We lost the any relevance when we settled for Richardson and then Moser. And why did we do that? Because we didn't have the $$ needed to attract better coaches. I was willing to give both coaches a chance . . . my bad.

I wish I could pony up the cash, just don't have it. So I've learned to accept that we'll struggle more than we'll win. That's not being happy with mediocrity, that's a pragmatic response to reality. ISU cannot afford to be great in today's $-driven environment.

Maybe we can strike gold again with a Stallings-like hiring. Maybe our next is Richardson-like. I'm not a big fan of the coaching carousal. And if we fire Dan now, then I think our likelihood to hire a Richardson is the most likely.

 

[Bird Friend]

you're missing my point

No, I'm expanding upon it.

No, you didn't.

 

[ISU FAN 1]

A. I've attended almost every football home and road games for several years. Every home men's basketball and several road games. Go to Volleyball, Women's basketball, and baseball games. So I don't watch from my couch.

B. Softball won 38% of it's games last year. Women's Soccer was .500. Baseball was 22-30 and fired it's coach (2nd one Larry has hired). Women's basketball is currently 2-4 coming off a 14-16 season (this I give them some slack because of the situation), Men's basketball is struggling, football is sliding backwards. We finished 3rd in the MVC all-sports trophy without Wichita that would have won it ( Illinois State won five of six all-sports championships from 1996-01). We can't build or finish the facilities we have.

I give Volleyball credit. They won and that is great.

I look at the whole department and I see the big picture. We are not going in a positive direction.

Don’t waste your time. Many on here are happy with mediocrity. They think it’s all the NCAA’s fault that we haven’t sniffed the tournament in 20 years. It’s a conspiracy against us.

Pony up the necessary cash to make us more relevant then. We lost the any relevance when we settled for Richardson and then Moser. And why did we do that? Because we didn't have the $$ needed to attract better coaches. I was willing to give both coaches a chance . . . my bad.

I wish I could pony up the cash, just don't have it. So I've learned to accept that we'll struggle more than we'll win. That's not being happy with mediocrity, that's a pragmatic response to reality. ISU cannot afford to be great in today's $-driven environment.

Maybe we can strike gold again with a Stallings-like hiring. Maybe our next is Richardson-like. I'm not a big fan of the coaching carousal. And if we fire Dan now, then I think our likelihood to hire a Richardson is the most likely.

:text-+1:
And the thought of this Athletic Dept leadership hiring a replacement is frightening in its own right.

 

[DBird]

Thank You from the father of 2 kids who wore college uniforms in other sports that DO indeed matter.

:text-+1:
Cross and Track coach here!

That's so cool. Thanks for giving back to the kids DBird!!!
My daughter is a head xc / track coach and 1st year teacher in Indiana.

Great she is gonna love it!!
Im actually retired from teaching/coaching but just started coaching the distance gals at a different HS last year cant get enough I guess!
Best of luck to her!!

 

[CaliRdBrd]

:text-+1:

In Jsnhbe1Birds defense, I’ve always thought some of what made the board entertaining were people like him, jigga, babybird, etc. They are the minority voice on here (even though probably speak for the majority outside this message board). I’ve been on here since the beginning and for the most part it’s been a clique of rose colored ISU fans. If you don’t like what he has to say just foe or ignore him.

As I left the arena on Saturday, I realized this, we are a middling mid-major program. We had really one at-large bid season (Janks first, you look at the numbers and the MVC champ team didn’t have enough quality wins). We aren’t awful, but we are miles away from being a top tier college basketball program. San Diego Stats has been pummeled by anyone respectable. Sure, we schedule better, but when have every won a big non-conference game against anyone good? It is what it is.

We have an athletic department that is small time. We can’t print tickets and this week decides to promote Matt Lyons 2.0 (Sean Johnson) because he’s......not as bad at Matt? I don’t know. I mean we spelled Steve Fisher’s name wrong for his tribute. Not sure how anyone can get promoted with the state of ISU athletics.

I no longer get upset or care enough about ISU to throw a fit. I love ISU and will support them no matter what, but we are just treading water. My point being, I’m not sure the negative poster are wrong and the positive poster aren’t either, but everyone should be able to say what they want unless they personally attack a player. Coaches and admins get paid large salaries and know what they are getting into.

:text-+1:

 

[gobirds72]

A. I've attended almost every football home and road games for several years. Every home men's basketball and several road games. Go to Volleyball, Women's basketball, and baseball games. So I don't watch from my couch.

B. Softball won 38% of it's games last year. Women's Soccer was .500. Baseball was 22-30 and fired it's coach (2nd one Larry has hired). Women's basketball is currently 2-4 coming off a 14-16 season (this I give them some slack because of the situation), Men's basketball is struggling, football is sliding backwards. We finished 3rd in the MVC all-sports trophy without Wichita that would have won it ( Illinois State won five of six all-sports championships from 1996-01). We can't build or finish the facilities we have.

I give Volleyball credit. They won and that is great.

I look at the whole department and I see the big picture. We are not going in a positive direction.

Don’t waste your time. Many on here are happy with mediocrity. They think it’s all the NCAA’s fault that we haven’t sniffed the tournament in 20 years. It’s a conspiracy against us.

Pony up the necessary cash to make us more relevant then. We lost the any relevance when we settled for Richardson and then Moser. And why did we do that? Because we didn't have the $$ needed to attract better coaches. I was willing to give both coaches a chance . . . my bad.

I wish I could pony up the cash, just don't have it. So I've learned to accept that we'll struggle more than we'll win. That's not being happy with mediocrity, that's a pragmatic response to reality. ISU cannot afford to be great in today's $-driven environment.

Maybe we can strike gold again with a Stallings-like hiring. Maybe our next is Richardson-like. I'm not a big fan of the coaching carousal. And if we fire Dan now, then I think our likelihood to hire a Richardson is the most likely.

Why would I donate more money to fund administrative salaries that should be gone? It would be inappropriately used. We need to stop giving scholarships out like it’s Christmas candy.

 

[Bird Friend]

Don’t waste your time. Many on here are happy with mediocrity. They think it’s all the NCAA’s fault that we haven’t sniffed the tournament in 20 years. It’s a conspiracy against us.

Pony up the necessary cash to make us more relevant then. We lost the any relevance when we settled for Richardson and then Moser. And why did we do that? Because we didn't have the $$ needed to attract better coaches. I was willing to give both coaches a chance . . . my bad.

I wish I could pony up the cash, just don't have it. So I've learned to accept that we'll struggle more than we'll win. That's not being happy with mediocrity, that's a pragmatic response to reality. ISU cannot afford to be great in today's $-driven environment.

Maybe we can strike gold again with a Stallings-like hiring. Maybe our next is Richardson-like. I'm not a big fan of the coaching carousal. And if we fire Dan now, then I think our likelihood to hire a Richardson is the most likely.

Why would I donate more money to fund administrative salaries that should be gone? It would be inappropriately used. We need to stop giving scholarships out like it’s Christmas candy.

Then you don't get it . . . at all.

 

[Jsnhbe1Birds]

Pony up the necessary cash to make us more relevant then. We lost the any relevance when we settled for Richardson and then Moser. And why did we do that? Because we didn't have the $$ needed to attract better coaches. I was willing to give both coaches a chance . . . my bad.

I wish I could pony up the cash, just don't have it. So I've learned to accept that we'll struggle more than we'll win. That's not being happy with mediocrity, that's a pragmatic response to reality. ISU cannot afford to be great in today's $-driven environment.

Maybe we can strike gold again with a Stallings-like hiring. Maybe our next is Richardson-like. I'm not a big fan of the coaching carousal. And if we fire Dan now, then I think our likelihood to hire a Richardson is the most likely.

Why would I donate more money to fund administrative salaries that should be gone? It would be inappropriately used. We need to stop giving scholarships out like it’s Christmas candy.

Then you don't get it . . . at all.

Please explain it then