King David gone

[SoCalRedbird]

No it wasn't a choose to lose. How would you feel if your kid had an issue but the last 4 games of the year the coach said screw it I need him and cost him a year of eligibility? It isn't just a missed year of basketball either. It is a year to have to pay his own way to get his master's. And btw screwing over a player for own personal gain gets around.

It most certainly WAS a choice to lose. How would you feel if your son's coach handicapped the game and entire season becauae he wanted to prove a point.

As a teacher myself, kids--especially prima dona types--do not respond well to being punished as a class on behalf of one individual's actions.

To be fair, I think Dan Muller is a phenomenal teacher of men. But THAT decision wasn't a good one, and one that he hasn't resorted to again.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

So as a parent you would have been ok with Dan playing your son, Romine for say 4 games?

I think there are two separate players being discussed within this thread.

The player referenced in the OP's post was Johnny Hill, who Muller sat for over a half following a mysto-technical in a game against Bradley in 2013. As punishment, I imagine, Muller sat him for the rest of the game. Before the technical, ISU led by 15 and Hill was our starting point guard.

Romine's situation is different. Since we don't know anything about his injury / illness, we're in no position to say whether playing him four games would have been acceptable to his parents--which, in my opinion, shouldn't compromise the team's goals and values. But since the kid was already a redshirt transfer, I probably would have burned his potential medical redshirt. It's not like ISU basketball prospects have a strong track record of exhausting their NCAA eligibility in Normal.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[Hamdonger]

they do not need to get a medical redshirt for romine because he didnt play. you only need to apply for one if he plays that season. he auto gets it because he didnt play. 2 eligible season remaining

Can someone PM me about his specific injury? ACL? Severe blisters?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

its a big secret on here. they like to feel important

No it's called respect.

 

[Redbird222]

Here is some clarification on medical hardships... definitely not automatically awarded in Romine's case

https://www.athleticscholarships.net/2012/07/17/how-get-medical-redshirt.htm


"Medical Red-shirts and the Five-Year Clock
Athletes must keep in mind both the five-year clock and their four seasons of competition. Even if an athlete gets a medical hardship waiver, he or she needs to have time left on their five-year clock (10-semester/15-quarter clock in Divisions II and III) to use that season.

This is problematic for athletes took a normal redshirt season or sat out due to a transfer. An athlete can generally not use a medical redshirt in those cases unless they get a clock extension or sixth year waiver. To do that the athlete show they lost two seasons outside of his or her control. The medical redshirt would be one, but the athlete would still need to show another."

 

[Hamdonger]

Or maybe he looked good going against DN...just like everyone else did.

Have you seen him play?

Unfortunately no, but no one has... despite the fact he had the green light from Muller.
You don’t find that to be the least bit concerning?

I. Have. Seen. Him. Play.

He's a player - given healthy mind, body, and spirit.

 

[cpacmel]

they do not need to get a medical redshirt for romine because he didnt play. you only need to apply for one if he plays that season. he auto gets it because he didnt play. 2 eligible season remaining

That is not how it works according to what I have been told. Romine has already sat out a year. It will be interesting to see if Romine is able to get a medical redshirt because it seemed, based upon posters here, that Muller choose NOT to play Romine towards the last half of the season vs Romine being not able to play due to medical reasons. That is a big difference. If Romine was not medically able to play the whole year (the posters here were wrong) then he has an argument for a hardship case for a medical redshirt (and to also extend 5 year rule) but doctors will have to validate that he was not able to play due to medical reasons. I could be wrong but that is what I have been told by a D1 coach.

you get a transfer year too. youre making it harder than it is by overthinking it

You get 5 years to play 4. Period

Year 1: UTEP (15-16). Freshman year
Year 2: transfer year (16-17)
Year 3: ISU (17-18). Sophomore year.

He has 2 years playing left. His clock stops 2020.

Could you try and get a waiver (medical or other)for this past season. Possibly. But ISU has to apply for that. Which is exactly what Boston College is trying to do for Hawkins.

Also Romine’s waiver would not be based on medical doctors. As anyone with eyes could see physically he was cleared to practice and play.

 

[cpacmel]

they do not need to get a medical redshirt for romine because he didnt play. you only need to apply for one if he plays that season. he auto gets it because he didnt play. 2 eligible season remaining

That is not how it works according to what I have been told. Romine has already sat out a year. It will be interesting to see if Romine is able to get a medical redshirt because it seemed, based upon posters here, that Muller choose NOT to play Romine towards the last half of the season vs Romine being not able to play due to medical reasons. That is a big difference. If Romine was not medically able to play the whole year (the posters here were wrong) then he has an argument for a hardship case for a medical redshirt (and to also extend 5 year rule) but doctors will have to validate that he was not able to play due to medical reasons. I could be wrong but that is what I have been told by a D1 coach.

you get a transfer year too. youre making it harder than it is by overthinking it

You get 5 year to play 4. That year that you don’t play is either a medical redshirt year OR a transfer year if changing schools.

Without a waiver, Romine just used up his 2nd playing year. He has 2 seasons left. Period.

 

[Jsnhbe1Birds]

That is not how it works according to what I have been told. Romine has already sat out a year. It will be interesting to see if Romine is able to get a medical redshirt because it seemed, based upon posters here, that Muller choose NOT to play Romine towards the last half of the season vs Romine being not able to play due to medical reasons. That is a big difference. If Romine was not medically able to play the whole year (the posters here were wrong) then he has an argument for a hardship case for a medical redshirt (and to also extend 5 year rule) but doctors will have to validate that he was not able to play due to medical reasons. I could be wrong but that is what I have been told by a D1 coach.

you get a transfer year too. youre making it harder than it is by overthinking it

You get 5 year to play 4. That year that you don’t play is either a medical redshirt year OR a transfer year if changing schools.

Without a waiver, Romine just used up his 2nd playing year. He has 2 seasons left. Period.

Well, if he's good he probably will be a Bird for only two season because he will grad transfer for his sixth season. But, he has three years of eligibility remaining even if he has to get a waiver, which he would if it came to that.

 

[cpacmel]

But, he has three years of eligibility remaining even if he has to get a waiver, which he would if it came to that.

The waiver he would be applying for is in no way a guarantee. The NCAA does not grant these at a rate of 100% just because you apply for them.

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/nc-state/state-now/article152881104.html

The NCAA has denied Terry Henderson’s sixth-year waiver, ending the N.C. State guard’s college career on Friday.

Henderson, the Wolfpack’s second-leading scorer last season, had appealed to the NCAA in March for an extra season of eligibility.

The NCAA gives athletes an eligibility clock of five years to play four seasons. A sixth season requires a waiver and the NCAA usually only approves sixth-year appeals that involve multiple seasons missed with injury. Henderson only missed one to injury and one when he transferred from West Virginia.

Another 6th year denied:

http://www.nycbuckets.com/2015/09/new-hampshire-matt-miller-denied-ncaa-waiver-joins-coaching-staff/


And finally this:

https://borderingonwisdom.wordpress.com/2016/06/23/ncaa-6th-year-of-eligibility/

NCAA rules are notoriously difficult to navigate. Determining whether a player may be approved for a 6th year (instead of the standard 5 year limit) to complete their 4 years of eligibility is one of the murkier such rules. It is rare that a student-athlete qualifies for a 6th year, so this year’s scenario where Michigan State’s football team had 3 players in consideration for such extended eligibility completion is an extreme outlier.

 

[Bird Friend]

Or maybe he looked good going against DN...just like everyone else did.

Have you seen him play?

No, but we know what your eye for talent is. I want to be better than mediocre. If Romine was good enough to help...he would have played last year. If he was running with the 1st team and dominating like some say...he wouldn’t have been the water boy. Unless, Muller wanted to lose.

I’ve not seen him play. So I can’t tell you how much, or if, he’s improved since high school. I just find interesting that one can be so certain one knows the talent level of someone they’ve never seen play.

 

[Bird Friend]

I put this in the thread about the 5 players being cut, but I believe the men's team has done something like this with "cutting" players before, Muller just didn't call it that. I always appreciate when a spade is called a spade, Muller often tries to save face for himself and his players. Coach G on the women's side blatantly said she cut those players.

I assume Kaza Keane, Will Ransom, Mike Middlebrooks, Jamaal Samuel, Zach Lofton, Mark Hall, Johnny Hill, Bryant Allen, DJ Clayton, and Nick Banyard were all "cut" for one reason or another. I'm sure there's more we are forgetting. Muller just never used the word. He would either cite violation of team rules for the decision or not mention it at all and say something like, "(Player) is transferring to be closer to home, seek more PT, or find a better fit. We wish him the best of luck in the future."

Not sure about the others but fairly sure Hill left on his own.

Hill was the only player I ever noticed Dan benching due to a technical, in one of Dan’s famous choose to lose games. When building culture, why would only Hill be disciplined in this manner? Makes a good case that Hill was “run off” the team by Muller.

Hill has said HE regretted choosing to leave ISU. Dan tried to talk him into staying. Dan said that. Hill said that.

And for god’s sake, can we get over the “Dan chose to lose” BS? Dan chose to follow through on a promised punishment if JH was called for a T. Guess what? Hill’s behavior cost us the game. Much like MY’s behavior cost at least one game.

But I guess you’d rather we have players committed to a lack of discipline, a lack of putting team first. You obviously don’t know Dan’s competitive spirit to even suggest he would choose to lose.

 

[Bird Friend]

So his injuries contributed to him missing a simple layup in nearly every game he played in? Given how uncoordinated and lost he looked most of the time I just find him ever being good really hard to believe whether he was "injured" or not.

That's your "opinion"? You're "right" I'm sure missing 3 months of practice time each year would have no impact on a players performance. That's why EC came in after his "injuries" and set the conference on their collective ears. "Thanks"

Seems like you can't "accept the fact he sucked" and you don't accept "reality ". "Thank you and God bless"

Your opinion is he sucked. That is not a fact. Please don’t conflate your opinions with reality.

 

[Bird Friend]

they do not need to get a medical redshirt for romine because he didnt play. you only need to apply for one if he plays that season. he auto gets it because he didnt play. 2 eligible season remaining

That is not how it works according to what I have been told. Romine has already sat out a year. It will be interesting to see if Romine is able to get a medical redshirt because it seemed, based upon posters here, that Muller choose NOT to play Romine towards the last half of the season vs Romine being not able to play due to medical reasons. That is a big difference. If Romine was not medically able to play the whole year (the posters here were wrong) then he has an argument for a hardship case for a medical redshirt (and to also extend 5 year rule) but doctors will have to validate that he was not able to play due to medical reasons. I could be wrong but that is what I have been told by a D1 coach.

My god, if Zach Lofton can take six (at least) years to play four for no medical reasons, Romine should be able to get another year.

 

[Bird Friend]

So ISU was 1 win from the NCAA tourney and our own possible final 4 run, and Muller makes the coaching decision to sit a starter? Another choose to lose decision? He was hired to win. Nice guy finishes last again. He might want to go gor it once while he still has the job

No it wasn't a choose to lose. How would you feel if your kid had an issue but the last 4 games of the year the coach said screw it I need him and cost him a year of eligibility? It isn't just a missed year of basketball either. It is a year to have to pay his own way to get his master's. And btw screwing over a player for own personal gain gets around.

It most certainly WAS a choice to lose. How would you feel if your son's coach handicapped the game and entire season becauae he wanted to prove a point.

As a teacher myself, kids--especially prima dona types--do not respond well to being punished as a class on behalf of one individual's actions.

To be fair, I think Dan Muller is a phenomenal teacher of men. But THAT decision wasn't a good one, and one that he hasn't resorted to again.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Wasn’t it the Charleston Southern game that MY sat for disciplinary reasons? And being a teacher of men means choosing to do the right thing even when it’s not popular. Plus, we cannot say with absolute certainty that Hill’s presence would have won that game. What if he got another T? What if other players didn’t appreciate Dan letting Hill off the hook?

 

[Bird Friend]

Or maybe he looked good going against DN...just like everyone else did.

Have you seen him play?

Unfortunately no, but no one has... despite the fact he had the green light from Muller.
You don’t find that to be the least bit concerning?

What green light?

 

[Bird Friend]

Here is some clarification on medical hardships... definitely not automatically awarded in Romine's case

https://www.athleticscholarships.net/2012/07/17/how-get-medical-redshirt.htm


"Medical Red-shirts and the Five-Year Clock
Athletes must keep in mind both the five-year clock and their four seasons of competition. Even if an athlete gets a medical hardship waiver, he or she needs to have time left on their five-year clock (10-semester/15-quarter clock in Divisions II and III) to use that season.

This is problematic for athletes took a normal redshirt season or sat out due to a transfer. An athlete can generally not use a medical redshirt in those cases unless they get a clock extension or sixth year waiver. To do that the athlete show they lost two seasons outside of his or her control. The medical redshirt would be one, but the athlete would still need to show another."

Yet Lofton got five years to exhaust 3 years of eligibility after a year of juco.

 

[ISU FAN 1]

Must have missed that. Any link?

So ISU was 1 win from the NCAA tourney and our own possible final 4 run, and Muller makes the coaching decision to sit a starter? Another choose to lose decision? He was hired to win. Nice guy finishes last again. He might want to go gor it once while he still has the job

No it wasn't a choose to lose. How would you feel if your kid had an issue but the last 4 games of the year the coach said screw it I need him and cost him a year of eligibility? It isn't just a missed year of basketball either. It is a year to have to pay his own way to get his master's. And btw screwing over a player for own personal gain gets around.

What about screwing over the rest of the team by denying them an NCAA trip? It’s a team sport. Romine is part of the team. But you want to serve the need of 1 at the expense of the rest. The objective is to win.

 

[ISU FAN 1]

they do not need to get a medical redshirt for romine because he didnt play. you only need to apply for one if he plays that season. he auto gets it because he didnt play. 2 eligible season remaining

How many years can ISU do this? Maybe we’ll get something from Romine when he’s 35.

 

[Redbird Alum 2004]

So ISU was 1 win from the NCAA tourney and our own possible final 4 run, and Muller makes the coaching decision to sit a starter? Another choose to lose decision? He was hired to win. Nice guy finishes last again. He might want to go gor it once while he still has the job

No it wasn't a choose to lose. How would you feel if your kid had an issue but the last 4 games of the year the coach said screw it I need him and cost him a year of eligibility? It isn't just a missed year of basketball either. It is a year to have to pay his own way to get his master's. And btw screwing over a player for own personal gain gets around.

What about screwing over the rest of the team by denying them an NCAA trip? It’s a team sport. Romine is part of the team. But you want to serve the need of 1 at the expense of the rest. The objective is to win.

Must you hate everything ISU?

 

[ISU FAN 1]

No it wasn't a choose to lose. How would you feel if your kid had an issue but the last 4 games of the year the coach said screw it I need him and cost him a year of eligibility? It isn't just a missed year of basketball either. It is a year to have to pay his own way to get his master's. And btw screwing over a player for own personal gain gets around.

What about screwing over the rest of the team by denying them an NCAA trip? It’s a team sport. Romine is part of the team. But you want to serve the need of 1 at the expense of the rest. The objective is to win.

Must you hate everything ISU?

Priority on winning is hating on ISU?

 

[ISU FAN 1]

I never put much stock in reasons people give for leaving. Mostly politically correct bullshit being spread around.

Dang. That's quite a streaky run of poo you just threw up, or, out. Bunch of posts in a row of your curmudgeon optimism. Bad cheerios today?? Change your dang diaper, dude, and you'll feel lots better. Go to bed with the lady. Or whatever. But good gravy stop taking it out an all of us here. Go watch roller derby or something, brother...

I would caution you not to believe everything you read in the media as truth. You clearly pick and choose what you want to believe on this forum. I would advise you exercise the same discretion elsewhere. If coach and player don’t part in an amicable way, what benefit is there to air the dirty laundry in the media? Most choose to take the high road.