Hein

[gobirds72]

The person who thinks everyone else, including the paid professional coaches are wrong and he is right, is probably not as intelligent as he leads himself to believe.

“Paid professionals” sometimes get fired. The only thing that truly matters is results.

We will see how much the paid professionals know this year. The league is the worst I've seen it in my 35 years of being an ISU fan (data backs that up). Our top 7/8 is probably the most talented in the MVC with Williamson hurt for Loyola.

And some coaches will get fired this year. This was sad to watch last night one soon to be fired coach backing another soon to be fired coach.

https://twitter.com/THefferman/status/1090848282425860097

I hope “paid professionals” have higher expectations than the average poster sitting in the upper bowl of redbird arena.

 

[ricohill]

“Paid professionals” sometimes get fired. The only thing that truly matters is results.

We will see how much the paid professionals know this year. The league is the worst I've seen it in my 35 years of being an ISU fan (data backs that up). Our top 7/8 is probably the most talented in the MVC with Williamson hurt for Loyola.

And some coaches will get fired this year. This was sad to watch last night one soon to be fired coach backing another soon to be fired coach.

https://twitter.com/THefferman/status/1090848282425860097

I hope “paid professionals” have higher expectations than the average poster sitting in the upper bowl of redbird arena.

I sit in the lower bowl....but you combine Lansing, Hinson, and Muller you have (not counting this year) 30 seasons of D1 head coaching experience and 1 NCAA Tournament. That one NCAA Tournament was Lansing's first season.

 

[SgtHulka]

“Paid professionals” sometimes get fired. The only thing that truly matters is results.

We will see how much the paid professionals know this year. The league is the worst I've seen it in my 35 years of being an ISU fan (data backs that up). Our top 7/8 is probably the most talented in the MVC with Williamson hurt for Loyola.

And some coaches will get fired this year. This was sad to watch last night one soon to be fired coach backing another soon to be fired coach.

https://twitter.com/THefferman/status/1090848282425860097

I hope “paid professionals” have higher expectations than the average poster sitting in the upper bowl of redbird arena.

And better sense than the rec lead three point champion of the world

 

[isuquinndog]

You also have two of the lowest RPI teams to not make the NCAA tournament. So ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Also, if Hein being out makes us so much better then why were we just 4-3 without him during non-conference? Including losing to UIC? Stats can be used to prove whatever you want.

 

[ricohill]

True, but 4 of the wins without Hein are the 4 top NET wins on our schedule.

Akron - 139
Boise State - 143
BYU - 102
Drake - 138

2 of the 3 loses where to:

San Diego State - 150
Ole Miss - 37

The UIC game is really the only bad loss without him.

 

[gobirds72]

We will see how much the paid professionals know this year. The league is the worst I've seen it in my 35 years of being an ISU fan (data backs that up). Our top 7/8 is probably the most talented in the MVC with Williamson hurt for Loyola.

And some coaches will get fired this year. This was sad to watch last night one soon to be fired coach backing another soon to be fired coach.

https://twitter.com/THefferman/status/1090848282425860097

I hope “paid professionals” have higher expectations than the average poster sitting in the upper bowl of redbird arena.

And better sense than the rec lead three point champion of the world

 

[BallwinBird2012]

Guess I'm a little confused as to why the opinions of, "He is a great, hard-working, selfless kid who represents our university and team well" and "He is not a very good basketball player, and our team is better when he is not on the court" can't exist in the same universe.

Dude is easy to like and to root for for all of the reasons that people mention, but even the people defending him never actually say anything nice about his ABILITY TO PLAY BASKETBALL. I think he adds value to the team in the way that any backup/walk-on type player does, but most of those guys aren't getting the minutes that Matt has. Everybody loved Rudy too (except for Vince Vaughn), but that guy got one play....

Agree it's not a great look to post about it on this thread, but nobody really likes talking about it on any thread...

 

[SgtHulka]

but even the people defending him never actually say anything nice about his ABILITY TO PLAY BASKETBALL.

I've said plenty of nice things about his ability to play basketball here. People read into what you do and don't say, what they want to think you did or didn't say. The 2 are rarely symmetrical though.

I've never claimed him to be one of the best players on the team. He has a role on the team that he fills and does a good job at that. Every game I see some positive output from him. He's far from being the Sam Skarich of the program. But if you even mention anything remotely positive about him it's met with as much disdain here as those who say anything remotely negative. Right now, he's one of several men down, and that sucks. We need a fully healthy squad.

 

[Baltimore Bird]

I don't agree Sarge. We don't need a fully healthy team because Muller then plays them too many minutes. We are a better team with 7 or 8. Don't take that to mean I want people to get hurt because I don't. I just don't want them to play in games until the game is decided. I have Hein in that do not play group and you don't. Muller agrees with you. This is a message board with opinions and ours are different. That is OK.

 

[RedbirdSoxFan]

but even the people defending him never actually say anything nice about his ABILITY TO PLAY BASKETBALL.

I've said plenty of nice things about his ability to play basketball here. People read into what you do and don't say, what they want to think you did or didn't say. The 2 are rarely symmetrical though.

I've never claimed him to be one of the best players on the team. He has a role on the team that he fills and does a good job at that. Every game I see some positive output from him. He's far from being the Sam Skarich of the program. But if you even mention anything remotely positive about him it's met with as much disdain here as those who say anything remotely negative. Right now, he's one of several men down, and that sucks. We need a fully healthy squad.

Speaking of Sam Skarich, I seem to recall a game at newly opened Redbird Arena against Wichita State back in 1990 where a Shocker's player missed a free throw with the Shox up by 3. The Birds got the rebound and Sam hit a three pointer at the buzzer to send it into overtime. The Birds went on to win the game and we all know how the rest of that season went.

Of course with my old brain, it could have been that it was 1979 against Indiana State and we missed the free throw and Larry Bird hit a 3-pointer :shifty:

 

[bb fan]

Well said, Sgt.

 

[BallwinBird2012]

but even the people defending him never actually say anything nice about his ABILITY TO PLAY BASKETBALL.

I've said plenty of nice things about his ability to play basketball here. People read into what you do and don't say, what they want to think you did or didn't say. The 2 are rarely symmetrical though.

I've never claimed him to be one of the best players on the team. He has a role on the team that he fills and does a good job at that. Every game I see some positive output from him. He's far from being the Sam Skarich of the program. But if you even mention anything remotely positive about him it's met with as much disdain here as those who say anything remotely negative. Right now, he's one of several men down, and that sucks. We need a fully healthy squad.

I apologize. I broke my own rule of trying not to use definitive terms like "never". Still, I would say MOST of the compliments directed at him (specifically in this thread) are for his intangibles (which I would completely agree with). He does do some good things from time to time, but it seems like for every one good thing he does, he backs it up with several mistakes and his stats would support that.

Agree that it does suck that he's down. I think he does have a role with the team already being down as many guys as we are, but with a fully healthy squad, I don't think it's unfair to say that his role should be a practice player/garbage minutes guy. There is value in that too.

 

[ricohill]

but even the people defending him never actually say anything nice about his ABILITY TO PLAY BASKETBALL.

I've said plenty of nice things about his ability to play basketball here. People read into what you do and don't say, what they want to think you did or didn't say. The 2 are rarely symmetrical though.

I've never claimed him to be one of the best players on the team. He has a role on the team that he fills and does a good job at that. Every game I see some positive output from him. He's far from being the Sam Skarich of the program. But if you even mention anything remotely positive about him it's met with as much disdain here as those who say anything remotely negative. Right now, he's one of several men down, and that sucks. We need a fully healthy squad.

I apologize. I broke my own rule of trying not to use definitive terms like "never". Still, I would say MOST of the compliments directed at him (specifically in this thread) are for his intangibles (which I would completely agree with). He does do some good things from time to time, but it seems like for every one good thing he does, he backs it up with several mistakes and his stats would support that.

Agree that it does suck that he's down. I think he does have a role with the team already being down as many guys as we are, but with a fully healthy squad, I don't think it's unfair to say that his role should be a practice player/garbage minutes guy. There is value in that too.

I went through and looked at what Ken Pom had projected us to win or lose by and compared it to the actual margin of victory/loss. I took out the Chicago State game and UIC (one with and one without Hein) because they were negative outliers. It is still 5 point difference even with those games.

In games where Hein plays we finish -1 and without Hein we are +4. So we play about 5 points better in games without him on average.

The margin for error is small in college basketball. Giving up 5 points a game doesn't seem to make sense to me.

 

[cubird]

Maybe Hein plays mostly in games we lose, because the players in front of him were in foul trouble or stinking it up

 

[cobird]

I've said plenty of nice things about his ability to play basketball here. People read into what you do and don't say, what they want to think you did or didn't say. The 2 are rarely symmetrical though.

I've never claimed him to be one of the best players on the team. He has a role on the team that he fills and does a good job at that. Every game I see some positive output from him. He's far from being the Sam Skarich of the program. But if you even mention anything remotely positive about him it's met with as much disdain here as those who say anything remotely negative. Right now, he's one of several men down, and that sucks. We need a fully healthy squad.

I apologize. I broke my own rule of trying not to use definitive terms like "never". Still, I would say MOST of the compliments directed at him (specifically in this thread) are for his intangibles (which I would completely agree with). He does do some good things from time to time, but it seems like for every one good thing he does, he backs it up with several mistakes and his stats would support that.

Agree that it does suck that he's down. I think he does have a role with the team already being down as many guys as we are, but with a fully healthy squad, I don't think it's unfair to say that his role should be a practice player/garbage minutes guy. There is value in that too.

I went through and looked at what Ken Pom had projected us to win or lose by and compared it to the actual margin of victory/loss. I took out the Chicago State game and UIC (one with and one without Hein) because they were negative outliers. It is still 5 point difference even with those games.

In games where Hein plays we finish -1 and without Hein we are +4. So we play about 5 points better in games without him on average.

The margin for error is small in college basketball. Giving up 5 points a game doesn't seem to make sense to me.

Since you seem to be the stat-master let's stay on that topic. But before we do, let's be real honest here. You have bashed Hein prior to him ever seeing the floor. Clearly you, along with many others who rip the kid have a larger issue that is likely attributed to a lack of success in many of your own athletic lives. I have read that the kid couldn't get on an intramural team, garbage time, victory cigar and the latest where one poster said his 8th grader could beat him and another calling him Rudy. It's a fine line between ignorant and stupid but a number of angry fantasy football wannabes have crossed that threshold. And if I recall Hein had 6 or 7 D1 offers and looks like his "N'Diaye package deal" obviously wasn't. The Rudy comment is beyond idiotic. It's too bad Hein illuminates the failures of many on here but to think you could do what he does is a joke. You can't and never could. It's the same group that thinks they can play on the PGA tour cause they shot a 76 in the C flight at the local muni. I know that's upsetting to many fragile egos but deal with it. That being said, let's get back to Rico and his stats. First off, anyone who is remotely objective would concur that without Hein, 5 wins last year would have been losses including the semis in STL. Next, let's look at his shooting % since you did.... It sucks. But he's shot 21 3's in a total of 22 games. A statistical irrelevancy. Next, his ass't: T/O ratio would be in the top 50 in NCAA D1 if he had the requisite number. But due to injuries he doesn't so let's be consistent here and toss that as well. A number that DOES matter after a significant number of games (which he has played) is +/-. Unless it's at garbage time (which Hein's isn't), +/- demonstrates overall impact for those additions or subtractions to the team not captured in the scorebook. Defense, extra pass, coaching on the floor, the hockey assist all factor in. So stat man....pop quiz. Who on the team has the highest overall +/-?? Uh oh...you're not going to like the answer cause it blows up your -1 and +4 narrative like when your momma told you not to put Mentos in your Coke can. But why don't you check into it, man up with the answer, and get back to the board...(spoiler alert...the answer is a kid who's out with a cast on his hand). Bottom line is you and others keep hating on the kid when his effectiveness is clear to those who see beyond your version of statsitics or the optics. There's a larger discontent with Hein by many which has zero to do with his on court performance. It's pathetic, disingenuous, and frankly I hope that recruits don't read this crap so many spew.

 

[bb fan]

Good stuff, cobird. Thanks for posting.

 

[birdballfan]

I apologize. I broke my own rule of trying not to use definitive terms like "never". Still, I would say MOST of the compliments directed at him (specifically in this thread) are for his intangibles (which I would completely agree with). He does do some good things from time to time, but it seems like for every one good thing he does, he backs it up with several mistakes and his stats would support that.

Agree that it does suck that he's down. I think he does have a role with the team already being down as many guys as we are, but with a fully healthy squad, I don't think it's unfair to say that his role should be a practice player/garbage minutes guy. There is value in that too.

I went through and looked at what Ken Pom had projected us to win or lose by and compared it to the actual margin of victory/loss. I took out the Chicago State game and UIC (one with and one without Hein) because they were negative outliers. It is still 5 point difference even with those games.

In games where Hein plays we finish -1 and without Hein we are +4. So we play about 5 points better in games without him on average.

The margin for error is small in college basketball. Giving up 5 points a game doesn't seem to make sense to me.

Since you seem to be the stat-master let's stay on that topic. But before we do, let's be real honest here. You have bashed Hein prior to him ever seeing the floor. Clearly you, along with many others who rip the kid have a larger issue that is likely attributed to a lack of success in many of your own athletic lives. I have read that the kid couldn't get on an intramural team, garbage time, victory cigar and the latest where one poster said his 8th grader could beat him and another calling him Rudy. It's a fine line between ignorant and stupid but a number of angry fantasy football wannabes have crossed that threshold. And if I recall Hein had 6 or 7 D1 offers and looks like his "N'Diaye package deal" obviously wasn't. The Rudy comment is beyond idiotic. It's too bad Hein illuminates the failures of many on here but to think you could do what he does is a joke. You can't and never could. It's the same group that thinks they can play on the PGA tour cause they shot a 76 in the C flight at the local muni. I know that's upsetting to many fragile egos but deal with it. That being said, let's get back to Rico and his stats. First off, anyone who is remotely objective would concur that without Hein, 5 wins last year would have been losses including the semis in STL. Next, let's look at his shooting % since you did.... It sucks. But he's shot 21 3's in a total of 22 games. A statistical irrelevancy. Next, his ass't: T/O ratio would be in the top 50 in NCAA D1 if he had the requisite number. But due to injuries he doesn't so let's be consistent here and toss that as well. A number that DOES matter after a significant number of games (which he has played) is +/-. Unless it's at garbage time (which Hein's isn't), +/- demonstrates overall impact for those additions or subtractions to the team not captured in the scorebook. Defense, extra pass, coaching on the floor, the hockey assist all factor in. So stat man....pop quiz. Who on the team has the highest overall +/-?? Uh oh...you're not going to like the answer cause it blows up your -1 and +4 narrative like when your momma told you not to put Mentos in your Coke can. But why don't you check into it, man up with the answer, and get back to the board...(spoiler alert...the answer is a kid who's out with a cast on his hand). Bottom line is you and others keep hating on the kid when his effectiveness is clear to those who see beyond your version of statsitics or the optics. There's a larger discontent with Hein by many which has zero to do with his on court performance. It's pathetic, disingenuous, and frankly I hope that recruits don't read this crap so many spew.

:text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1:

 

[Red Rocker]

Last I checked, Hein was a Redbird. I can’t recall him single handily losing any games for us this year. He is not Michael Jordan for sure but the kid at least plays hard. He found a way to be part of the team on the floor that beat Ole Miss and SIU last year when we needed somebody to step up.

I think the way Dan uses Matt sometimes is peculiar which probably doesn’t always put him in the best place to succeed, but he can produce given the right matchups.

I agree with the poster that says Dan over subs and maybe we will be better with 8. I think the over substitution causes game flow problems and likely contributes to so many blown leads.

We could use the depth in the tournament. Can
we pick on somebody from Bradley, SIU or Loyola?

 

[SoCalRedbird]

There’s a certain amount of white privilege that has seeped into college basketball. Especially from the fan perspective. Can’t imagine if Hein were black, he would have as many defenders. He clearly rode the coattails of a 7-footer to get this gig, so it’s not all that surprising he lacks in some of the D1 skills we are used to seeing. If you don’t think white makes a difference in the eyes of fans, go look at the glue guy thread. Other than Perez, it’s all white guys that hold or glue a team together.

:text-+1:

It's not complicated why many support Matt Hein. He's a character guy who selflessly gave up his ride for the benefit of the team. We should applaud that, right?

To be clear, NOBODY is defending his basketball talent as being remotely on par with our expectations for a shooting guard. But since he's consistently filled in unforeseen gaps due to injuries, suspensions, etc, it's fairly hard to root against a player that does everything asked of him. He's the guy the crowd rooted for to simply put up a shot just a few years ago. He's also the guy that's helped us win games despite punching WAY above his weight class.

White privilege? I'd urge you to see Matt for the content of his character rather than his skin color. It's not fair to accuse Matt or other fans of intentional or unintentional bias based on arbitrary features such as skin color. Shameful default position, in my opinion....

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[Bird Friend]

Out of curiousity, why are players immune to criticism just because they wear a Redbird uniform?

They're not immune to criticism. But . . .

• Criticize their play, not the player/person.

• Criticize when appropriate, not at every time the kid's name comes up. So . . . don't grind your axe on the player.

• Use some commonsense about how you criticize. The timing of the comment, wording, insinuation, etc. all matter in how your comments are perceived.

• Don't be surprised/offended/bewildered if you receive rebuttals. . . even fierce ones. There are always differing views.