Fire Muller...now!

[SgtHulka]

I think IWU beats us. All they have to do is run 2 types of basic offenses (4 out 1 in, simple high low against our zone) and if they play zone on defense we won’t score. We are too undisciplined. I would be willing to bet they have better shooters than we have. Our athleticism means nothing when we stand around. I bet they are better coached.

I hear Carl Malone is playing for them, so maybe...

 

[CaliRdBrd]

Hey Cali, I see you have mighty strong opinions sir(..and I appreciate & respect them all). However, I have one very important question if I may....where are all you guys when these kids get recruited and sign with ISU? Who's actually warning these kids about the TRUE state of the program/ fan base / and DM? Do you think these kids should have been warned or given some REAL insight before signing?

Thank you. I think it’s good practice to respect all opinions, after all they’re just that...opinions. One caveat, I don’t blame the players at all for accepting a scholarship.
That said, that’s a tough question to answer. As a fan, we rely heavily on the reports we read. Most of us never get to see these kids play until they’re Redbirds. In addition, many of us are not in their living rooms listening in on what they’re being told when being recruited.
There is a good chance they’re being told the truth...we’re a young team, we’re going to be learning and may struggle early on, but you’ll have a legitimate chance to start. I would think the guarantee of immediate playing time is a foremost consideration when choosing where you’re going to go to school.
My real problem is that I don’t see him recruiting the kind of players with an unwavering desire to win. I think he’s too enamored with how they look. I also think Muller is a questionable judge of character and seems less than average at developing the talent he has.

 

[ricohill]

Hey Cali, I see you have mighty strong opinions sir(..and I appreciate & respect them all). However, I have one very important question if I may....where are all you guys when these kids get recruited and sign with ISU? Who's actually warning these kids about the TRUE state of the program/ fan base / and DM? Do you think these kids should have been warned or given some REAL insight before signing?

To be fair, is it really that bad for the players here?

Let’s take this scenario. The recruiting of DJ Horne. Picked ISU over U-Mass Lowell, Towson, Northern Kentucky, and St. Louis.

So if Horne picked one of the other schools this is the situation he would be in.

U-Mass Lowell is 7-9 and lost to us. Terrible program with no fans or attention. Would play, but on a losing team.

Towson is currently 3-12. Terrible team, terrible program. Would play on an awful team with no hope.

Northern Kentucky is currently 11-8. Ok program in a terrible league. Would never get the chance to play a team like Drake or Loyola. Also, Horne only had 4 points against them last year so he wouldn’t have probably played as a Freshman with their roster whereas he got to play a ton at ISU.

St. Louis is 8-3, but it’s top 3 scorers are all guards. Perkins is 6-6, Goodwin is 6’3, 200 lbs, Jimerson is 6’5, 200lbs. So would a 6’1 175 lbs Horne even see the floor yet? Probably would be averaging 5 mins a game

Sure, you can say someone should have let the players parents know, but it’s not like any of the other choices would have been better.

Plus, as we have seen with Drake, you are a good coach and a couple recruits away from winning the league and being a top 25 team. Sure the situation is tough now, but if ISU fires Muller and gets a real coach this could be a good situation again.

 

[redbirdfan04]

Just my daily check to see if Dan still needs to be fired. Carry on!

 

[AllFacts]

To be fair, is it really that bad for the players here?

Let’s take this scenario. The recruiting of DJ Horne. Picked ISU over U-Mass Lowell, Towson, Northern Kentucky, and St. Louis.

So if Horne picked one of the other schools this is the situation he would be in.

U-Mass Lowell is 7-9 and lost to us. Terrible program with no fans or attention. Would play, but on a losing team.

Towson is currently 3-12. Terrible team, terrible program. Would play on an awful team with no hope.

Northern Kentucky is currently 11-8. Ok program in a terrible league. Would never get the chance to play a team like Drake or Loyola. Also, Horne only had 4 points against them last year so he wouldn’t have probably played as a Freshman with their roster whereas he got to play a ton at ISU.

St. Louis is 8-3, but it’s top 3 scorers are all guards. Perkins is 6-6, Goodwin is 6’3, 200 lbs, Jimerson is 6’5, 200lbs. So would a 6’1 175 lbs Horne even see the floor yet? Probably would be averaging 5 mins a game

Sure, you can say someone should have let the players parents know, but it’s not like any of the other choices would have been better.

Plus, as we have seen with Drake, you are a good coach and a couple recruits away from winning the league and being a top 25 team. Sure the situation is tough now, but if ISU fires Muller and gets a real coach this could be a good situation again.

Thanks Rico, not a Horne fan I see. And I didn't mention Horne in my post to Cali...hummmmm. Even more telling how that kid gets singled out!! Again, I appreciate your opinion.

Also...who said it was "bad"? I see ISU as great opportunity....Horne signed when there were 2 other Guards that would have been on the roster...Hein & Jefferson, both transferred out! Just interesting most if not all your post was negatively one sided. But again, thanks!!! Point noted!

 

[gobirds85]

Just my daily check to see if Dan still needs to be fired. Carry on!

5-14. Year 9. Another Thursday night one and done. Yes, he still needs to be fired.

 

[ricohill]

Thanks Rico, not a Horne fan I see. And I didn't mention Horne in my post to Cali...hummmmm. Even more telling how that kid gets singled out!! Again, I appreciate your opinion.

Also...who said it was "bad"? I see ISU as great opportunity....Horne signed when there were 2 other Guards that would have been on the roster...Hein & Jefferson, both transferred out! Just interesting most if not all your post was negatively one sided. But again, thanks!!! Point noted!

I am a Horne fan. I don’t know where you got that from. I just picked out a player. I could have selected anyone. He’s our best player.

My point is when you say why didn’t you tell me it was going to be like this? It isn’t a fair complaint. He or anyone else could have went elsewhere and the situation could have been different or worse. It’s all perspective.

A lot of the guards are getting a ton of playing time they wouldn’t get elsewhere. Which is good because it makes them better individually, but not having a 3,4, or 5 makes it tough to win.

 

[jamminjamarsmiley]

I know everyone who still drinks the kool aid points to isu being young and the core of horne and reeves. I must raise the question, if you are either one of those guys why do you stay at ISU for four years? There’s no penalty to transfer. You only get one shot at your college career. There’s no sign that winning will happen in the next two years. The team actually got worse from last season when these guys were freshman. Wouldn’t you expect guys who are touted as program saviors to improve the program from year 1 to year 2? It’s really not their fault though, it’s Dans.

would anyone be surprised to see one, if not both Horne and Reeves flee to greener pastures? You know there will be higher level schools willing to take those guys. Can’t imagine they are enjoying getting their asses kicked every night in the Muller hell verse they live in. I am trying to be rational here, just see many more reasons to transfer than to stick around and play for Dan. Maybe they hire a new exciting coach who can convince them to stay.

 

[AllFacts]

I am a Horne fan. I don’t know where you got that from. I just picked out a player. I could have selected anyone. He’s our best player.

My point is when you say why didn’t you tell me it was going to be like this? It isn’t a fair complaint. He or anyone else could have went elsewhere and the situation could have been different or worse. It’s all perspective.

A lot of the guards are getting a ton of playing time they wouldn’t get elsewhere. Which is good because it makes them better individually, but not having a 3,4, or 5 makes it tough to win.

Totally agree! Our guards are getting a ton of minutes. We are just a few pieces away from being a solid contender!! Thanks for correcting me, I didn't see it that way with regards to the Horne comments in previous tread. However, I truly believe in this team/program and see things trending up soon, very soon (optimistically positive guy here!!). Because when you hit bottom, there's only one direction from there...UP!!! Build around Horne/Reeves/Fleming/Washington. These are a strong 4 core group IMO!!

 

[redbirdfan04]

I know everyone who still drinks the kool aid points to isu being young and the core of horne and reeves. I must raise the question, if you are either one of those guys why do you stay at ISU for four years? There’s no penalty to transfer. You only get one shot at your college career. There’s no sign that winning will happen in the next two years. The team actually got worse from last season when these guys were freshman. Wouldn’t you expect guys who are touted as program saviors to improve the program from year 1 to year 2? It’s really not their fault though, it’s Dans.

would anyone be surprised to see one, if not both Horne and Reeves flee to greener pastures? You know there will be higher level schools willing to take those guys. Can’t imagine they are enjoying getting their asses kicked every night in the Muller hell verse they live in. I am trying to be rational here, just see many more reasons to transfer than to stick around and play for Dan. Maybe they hire a new exciting coach who can convince them to stay.

Guys leaving D1 teams is the norm now. Not just at ISU but across the country. I disagree with you about no sign of winning in the next two years. Saying they are young is just the facts. Could they leave at the end of the year, yes. Maybe they stay and the amount of court time they have seen pays off when they become upperclassmen, a few kids transfer in, maybe a new coach shows up. To say in two years it will just get worse feeds into your negative thoughts on Dan. I am not arguing with you on the record, it speaks for itself but they are young and if you do watch the games they have runs of looking like a winning team.

I firmly believe mid major programs need to do more to keep kids all four/five years to be successful. Yes, striking gold with a transfer is nice but the foundation of a winning program starts with kids staying. Easier said than done as we have found out. I started getting nervous a few years ago when Dan would bring in transfer after transfer. It backfired and here we are.

Also, it is really easy to say screw this team I'm going to another team. The new coach makes it sound amazing but it is not a guarentee of playing time or winning. This also happens all the time. Players get mad over numerous reasons leave and then the cycle repeats itself.

 

[Birdfriend72]

I hear Carl Malone is playing for them, so maybe...

They don’t need “Carl” we don’t have a big that’s good enough to worry about. All they have to do is zone our guards. Standing around and chucking bricks isn’t hard to defend.

 

[Birdfriend72]

Thanks Rico, not a Horne fan I see. And I didn't mention Horne in my post to Cali...hummmmm. Even more telling how that kid gets singled out!! Again, I appreciate your opinion.

Also...who said it was "bad"? I see ISU as great opportunity....Horne signed when there were 2 other Guards that would have been on the roster...Hein & Jefferson, both transferred out! Just interesting most if not all your post was negatively one sided. But again, thanks!!! Point noted!

Great if you want to play! Bad if you want to make the dance. Muller has 0 chance of making the dance before his contract expires. Loyola is now ranked #22 and is quietly turning into the next shockers of the Valley.

 

[Adunk33]

They don’t need “Carl” we don’t have a big that’s good enough to worry about. All they have to do is zone our guards. Standing around and chucking bricks isn’t hard to defend.

The Redbirds are #45 in the country in 3FG%.

 

[Birdfriend72]

Guys leaving D1 teams is the norm now. Not just at ISU but across the country. I disagree with you about no sign of winning in the next two years. Saying they are young is just the facts. Could they leave at the end of the year, yes. Maybe they stay and the amount of court time they have seen pays off when they become upperclassmen, a few kids transfer in, maybe a new coach shows up. To say in two years it will just get worse feeds into your negative thoughts on Dan. I am not arguing with you on the record, it speaks for itself but they are young and if you do watch the games they have runs of looking like a winning team.

I firmly believe mid major programs need to do more to keep kids all four/five years to be successful. Yes, striking gold with a transfer is nice but the foundation of a winning program starts with kids staying. Easier said than done as we have found out. I started getting nervous a few years ago when Dan would bring in transfer after transfer. It backfired and here we are.

Also, it is really easy to say screw this team I'm going to another team. The new coach makes it sound amazing but it is not a guarentee of playing time or winning. This also happens all the time. Players get mad over numerous reasons leave and then the cycle repeats itself.

You have a lot of valid points. Since Mullers glory year he hasn’t been able to really recruit good enough to make a dent in the Valley! While Muller is trying to recruit to get better Bradley, Loyola and Drake are all touting their recent success. Much easier for them to get better.

 

[Birdfriend72]

The Redbirds are #45 in the country in 3FG%.

I like my chances making ISU take a shot they make 37 percent of on a good day. Without a big...that’s a recipe for the status quo.

 

[Birdfriend72]

Totally agree! Our guards are getting a ton of minutes. We are just a few pieces away from being a solid contender!! Thanks for correcting me, I didn't see it that way with regards to the Horne comments in previous tread. However, I truly believe in this team/program and see things trending up soon, very soon (optimistically positive guy here!!). Because when you hit bottom, there's only one direction from there...UP!!! Build around Horne/Reeves/Fleming/Washington. These are a strong 4 core group IMO!!

Sounds great. I wish this was a 6 feet and under league.

 

[Redbird222]

Totally agree! Our guards are getting a ton of minutes. We are just a few pieces away from being a solid contender!! Thanks for correcting me, I didn't see it that way with regards to the Horne comments in previous tread. However, I truly believe in this team/program and see things trending up soon, very soon (optimistically positive guy here!!). Because when you hit bottom, there's only one direction from there...UP!!! Build around Horne/Reeves/Fleming/Washington. These are a strong 4 core group IMO!!

@AllFacts totally agree on those four. We need to add two front line players that can play defense and offense. Not just a portion of one. They don't have to be all Americans but they cannot be one dimensional.
We get two players like that and it will make a world of difference. There are some current players that could be effective role players. They need to play in the right situations and asked to play within their realistic capabilities.

I was watching some of the highlights of the 2017 team. Defensively the length of Hawkins, Phil, and David and athletism they brought vs our front current front line is so desperate. We were much better man to man that year but when we chose to play zone the length and athletism in the back was great.

 

[gobirds85]

Great if you want to play! Bad if you want to make the dance. Muller has 0 chance of making the dance before his contract expires. Loyola is now ranked #22 and is quietly turning into the next shockers of the Valley.

And what happens after the Covid pandemic, when conferences get back business and looking to add new schools? Is anyone else concerned that the A10 might make a move on Loyola? Then what happens to the mighty valley?

 

[jamminjamarsmiley]

Guys leaving D1 teams is the norm now. Not just at ISU but across the country. I disagree with you about no sign of winning in the next two years. Saying they are young is just the facts. Could they leave at the end of the year, yes. Maybe they stay and the amount of court time they have seen pays off when they become upperclassmen, a few kids transfer in, maybe a new coach shows up. To say in two years it will just get worse feeds into your negative thoughts on Dan. I am not arguing with you on the record, it speaks for itself but they are young and if you do watch the games they have runs of looking like a winning team.

I firmly believe mid major programs need to do more to keep kids all four/five years to be successful. Yes, striking gold with a transfer is nice but the foundation of a winning program starts with kids staying. Easier said than done as we have found out. I started getting nervous a few years ago when Dan would bring in transfer after transfer. It backfired and here we are.

Also, it is really easy to say screw this team I'm going to another team. The new coach makes it sound amazing but it is not a guarentee of playing time or winning. This also happens all the time. Players get mad over numerous reasons leave and then the cycle repeats itself.

Transfers are the norm these days, which supports my point on why Horne and Reeves to me should find a better situation for their talents. Let’s be honest, they are wasting their careers at ISU with Dan at the helm. They will never win anything of significance and likely never see Saturday in St. Louis. Both guys could play at better programs and showcase their abilities in a more competitive environment.

Sorry but I struggle where you’re seeing these signs of winning coming right around the corner. They are getting beat by some really poor teams. You can reference taking Drake to OT, but Valpo exposed Drake in a beatdown yesterday, so that doesn’t hold much weight. Every trend with ISU b-ball is negative. Losing more, getting blown out more, recruiting worse players - I find it hard to see positives.

 

[redbirdfan04]

And what happens after the Covid pandemic, when conferences get back business and looking to add new schools? Is anyone else concerned that the A10 might make a move on Loyola? Then what happens to the might valley?

Many teams have left the Valley over the years and it is still here. Yup, Loyola might move on but another team will replace them. If we could go back it would be funny to read the hate people put on this board about the Valley and Loyola when they joined. It went something like this; The Vally sucks, Loyola is a joke, they have crap facilities, they will hurt the valley, they are not even get the best progam from another conference. Conferences are always changing, the Valley has stood the test of time. Will it fold someday possibly but it continues to produce solid basketball just not from our team this year!