Fire Muller...now!

[RedbirdSoxFan]

In Muller's case...he isn't missing out on recruits due to Porter, Wardle, or Mullins paying them. He is missing out on them because they don't like him. You add that to his inability to coach, and that's a recipe for disaster. Dana Ford has 2, former MO Mr. Basketballs. That's getting it done on the recruiting trail. It hasn't helped Dana dominate the Valley...but he has mastered the art of recruiting.

There, I started it. Have at it...

2012-13
Dan takes over a team that finished 9-9 with 1 NIT win in 2011-12
Nic Moore follows Jank, leaving Dan without a point guard.
With Sophomore Johnny Hill forced to play PG the Birds:
Lost to Northwestern by 3
Lost to Louisville (and the Refs) by 3
Won @ Dayton
Beat #16 Creighton

2013-14
Without Carmichael, Brown, Wilkins, and Ekey (4 of his previous year starters) the Birds finish 9-9
Dan’s recruiting class includes:
Daishon Knight
Bobby Hunter
Zach Lofton
Paris Lee
Tony Wills
Reggie Lynch

2014-15 looks promising, but Freshman Reggie Lynch leaves, leaving Dan without a legitimate Center.
Birds still go 11-7 and make it to the MVC Tournament Championship Game.

2015-16 Birds go 12-6
Despite Nic Moore transferring prior to Dan’s first season, losing Jackie Carmichael, Tyler Brown, John Wilkins, and Jon Ekey after Dan’s first season, the Redbirds record improved each year after Dan’s first season.

2016-17
Redbirds go 17-1 and get screwed by the NCAA Tournament Selection Committee. They lose to Wichita State in the MVC Tournament Championship Game. Lose by 1 point to a very good Central Florida team (1 points loss cost the Redbird faithful a visit from the Illini to Redbird Arena)

2017-18
Despite losing McIntosh, Hawkins, Lee, and Wills to graduation & transfers, and PG Elijah Clarence missing pre-season training, and all of non-con games, the Redbirds still make it back to the MVC Tournament Championship Game (3 of the last 4)

2018-19
Season starts out with Elijah Clarance leaving team to go play overseas. After two last second half-court shot losses, Birds finish 9-9.

2019-20
Birds go 5-13 for their first losing season under Dan since his first year’s 8-10 record.

2020-21
Starts out with Keith Fisher III opting out. Starting four wings (2 Freshman/2 Sophomores) and a JUCO Center has made for a rough start, but I remain confident that this young group will be the foundation of good things to come for Redbird Basketball.

 

[CaliRdBrd]

2012-13
Dan takes over a team that finished 9-9 with 1 NIT win in 2011-12
Nic Moore follows Jank, leaving Dan without a point guard.
With Sophomore Johnny Hill forced to play PG the Birds:
Lost to Northwestern by 3
Lost to Louisville (and the Refs) by 3
Won @ Dayton
Beat #16 Creighton

2013-14
Without Carmichael, Brown, Wilkins, and Ekey (4 of his previous year starters) the Birds finish 9-9
Dan’s recruiting class includes:
Daishon Knight
Bobby Hunter
Zach Lofton
Paris Lee
Tony Wills
Reggie Lynch

2014-15 looks promising, but Freshman Reggie Lynch leaves, leaving Dan without a legitimate Center.
Birds still go 11-7 and make it to the MVC Tournament Championship Game.

2015-16 Birds go 12-6
Despite Nic Moore transferring prior to Dan’s first season, losing Jackie Carmichael, Tyler Brown, John Wilkins, and Jon Ekey after Dan’s first season, the Redbirds record improved each year after Dan’s first season.

2016-17
Redbirds go 17-1 and get screwed by the NCAA Tournament Selection Committee. They lose to Wichita State in the MVC Tournament Championship Game. Lose by 1 point to a very good Central Florida team (1 points loss cost the Redbird faithful a visit from the Illini to Redbird Arena)

2017-18
Despite losing McIntosh, Hawkins, Lee, and Wills to graduation & transfers, and PG Elijah Clarence missing pre-season training, and all of non-con games, the Redbirds still make it back to the MVC Tournament Championship Game (3 of the last 4)

2018-19
Season starts out with Elijah Clarance leaving team to go play overseas. After two last second half-court shot losses, Birds finish 9-9.

2019-20
Birds go 5-13 for their first losing season under Dan since his first year’s 8-10 record.

2020-21
Starts out with Keith Fisher III opting out. Starting four wings (2 Freshman/2 Sophomores) and a JUCO Center has made for a rough start, but I remain confident that this young group will be the foundation of good things to come for Redbird Basketball.

Holy cow! You meant to tell me that HCDM almost competed in a severely watered down conference?!? For the love of all things holy, someone please extend this man’s contract ASAP!

 

[TBS_20]

For what it's worth I do believe the current core could be part of a winning team.........with a new coach that knows what he's doing

 

[RedbirdSoxFan]

For what it's worth I do believe the current core could be part of a winning team.........with a new coach that knows what he's doing

For what it’s worth, I do believe the current core will be part of a winning team........with Dan as the coach!

 

[jamminjamarsmiley]

For what it’s worth, I do believe the current core will be part of a winning team........with Dan as the coach!

The team and the core is getting worse under Dan. What makes anyone think he can magically coach them up? the saddest part of it, is that he was such a damn good defensive player yet he has no ability to coach man to man defense. The players have the athleticism to keep up, but he clearly can’t mentally teach them how to do it. We sit back in a soft zone where Dan actually says he prefers teams shoot threes and just hope they miss. Great defensive mindset

 

[jamminjamarsmiley]

2012-13
Dan takes over a team that finished 9-9 with 1 NIT win in 2011-12
Nic Moore follows Jank, leaving Dan without a point guard.
With Sophomore Johnny Hill forced to play PG the Birds:
Lost to Northwestern by 3
Lost to Louisville (and the Refs) by 3
Won @ Dayton
Beat #16 Creighton

2013-14
Without Carmichael, Brown, Wilkins, and Ekey (4 of his previous year starters) the Birds finish 9-9
Dan’s recruiting class includes:
Daishon Knight
Bobby Hunter
Zach Lofton
Paris Lee
Tony Wills
Reggie Lynch

2014-15 looks promising, but Freshman Reggie Lynch leaves, leaving Dan without a legitimate Center.
Birds still go 11-7 and make it to the MVC Tournament Championship Game.

2015-16 Birds go 12-6
Despite Nic Moore transferring prior to Dan’s first season, losing Jackie Carmichael, Tyler Brown, John Wilkins, and Jon Ekey after Dan’s first season, the Redbirds record improved each year after Dan’s first season.

2016-17
Redbirds go 17-1 and get screwed by the NCAA Tournament Selection Committee. They lose to Wichita State in the MVC Tournament Championship Game. Lose by 1 point to a very good Central Florida team (1 points loss cost the Redbird faithful a visit from the Illini to Redbird Arena)

2017-18
Despite losing McIntosh, Hawkins, Lee, and Wills to graduation & transfers, and PG Elijah Clarence missing pre-season training, and all of non-con games, the Redbirds still make it back to the MVC Tournament Championship Game (3 of the last 4)

2018-19
Season starts out with Elijah Clarance leaving team to go play overseas. After two last second half-court shot losses, Birds finish 9-9.

2019-20
Birds go 5-13 for their first losing season under Dan since his first year’s 8-10 record.

2020-21
Starts out with Keith Fisher III opting out. Starting four wings (2 Freshman/2 Sophomores) and a JUCO Center has made for a rough start, but I remain confident that this young group will be the foundation of good things to come for Redbird Basketball.

BOO HOO!! What is the point of this? Are you the guy at work when you make a mistake, instead of being accountable you come up with 10 different reasons why it’s not your fault and we should feel bad for you??

do me a favor, do a rundown like this of Wardle at Bradley. Show us what he inherited and the success he had. Compare it to Danny boy and let’s see how it stacks up.

 

[Redbirdfan06]

2012-13
Dan takes over a team that finished 9-9 with 1 NIT win in 2011-12
Nic Moore follows Jank, leaving Dan without a point guard.
With Sophomore Johnny Hill forced to play PG the Birds:
Lost to Northwestern by 3
Lost to Louisville (and the Refs) by 3
Won @ Dayton
Beat #16 Creighton

2013-14
Without Carmichael, Brown, Wilkins, and Ekey (4 of his previous year starters) the Birds finish 9-9
Dan’s recruiting class includes:
Daishon Knight
Bobby Hunter
Zach Lofton
Paris Lee
Tony Wills
Reggie Lynch

2014-15 looks promising, but Freshman Reggie Lynch leaves, leaving Dan without a legitimate Center.
Birds still go 11-7 and make it to the MVC Tournament Championship Game.

2015-16 Birds go 12-6
Despite Nic Moore transferring prior to Dan’s first season, losing Jackie Carmichael, Tyler Brown, John Wilkins, and Jon Ekey after Dan’s first season, the Redbirds record improved each year after Dan’s first season.

2016-17
Redbirds go 17-1 and get screwed by the NCAA Tournament Selection Committee. They lose to Wichita State in the MVC Tournament Championship Game. Lose by 1 point to a very good Central Florida team (1 points loss cost the Redbird faithful a visit from the Illini to Redbird Arena)

2017-18
Despite losing McIntosh, Hawkins, Lee, and Wills to graduation & transfers, and PG Elijah Clarence missing pre-season training, and all of non-con games, the Redbirds still make it back to the MVC Tournament Championship Game (3 of the last 4)

2018-19
Season starts out with Elijah Clarance leaving team to go play overseas. After two last second half-court shot losses, Birds finish 9-9.

2019-20
Birds go 5-13 for their first losing season under Dan since his first year’s 8-10 record.

2020-21
Starts out with Keith Fisher III opting out. Starting four wings (2 Freshman/2 Sophomores) and a JUCO Center has made for a rough start, but I remain confident that this young group will be the foundation of good things to come for Redbird Basketball.

2012-13
Losing Moore hurt, but he still inherited a roster with two all MVC players in Carmichael and Brown.
Hill played point guard for Purdue so event though a downgrade, it wasn’t scraping bottom of the barrel
Losing to Northwestern by 3? Really? They won 4 games in the big ten that year.
Dayton win was ok, but they weren’t anything great that year.
Starting 0-6 in the valley was unacceptable. Creighton win was the highlight of that season

2013-14
That team overachieved. Dan’s best coaching job at ISU IMO.

2014-15
Lynch was there that year
Muller seems like he is building something with the way that team was playing at the end of the yeat

2015-16
Not sure why you brought up guys from 2013 team for year 4 of Muller. All that tells me is the cupboard wasn’t bare when he took the job.
Indiana state loss in the mvc quarters was bad

2016-17
Not sure we got screwed by the committee. Our one really good win was against a team that beat us twice by a combined 60 points. Also some bad non conference losses. But I think Muller deserved COY.
Also, if UCF was a very good team, they wouldn’t have been a 4 seed in the NIT. The UCF team two years later that took Duke to the wire in the tournament was a very good team.

2017-18
This team was basically a 500 team in the valley and other than Loyola, the conference was pretty mediocre.
Lack of consistency but hopeful for the following year

2018-19
Preseason number 2 in the valley and ends up on Thursday night in the tournament.
Yes they lost on two freak buzzer beaters, but those two games should have never gotten to that point. Complete meltdowns on both players and coaching staff.
I don’t know if Clarence would have made a difference or not. Seemed a lot of people were arguing him or Hein from the year before. That’s not a good sign of your future PG no matter how young the are.

2019-20
First losing season, but this was the third season in a row the team was trending downward since the 28 win season.

2020-21
Fisher might have helped with lack of depth, but let’s face it. They won 5 games with him on the floor last year. And I believe the team he was on before ISU won 4 games. Fisher isn’t a difference maker.
Also, you bring up the JUCO center. Muller brought in other bigs. One is off the team and the other can’t get on the floor. That’s on Muller. He doesn’t have any depth there even if Fisher is playing.

 

[TBS_20]

For what it’s worth, I do believe the current core will be part of a winning team........with Dan as the coach!

There is nothing else to say but you're deadass wrong. It's okay though. We're all wrong sometimes. There is no way you think Dan can win at this point.

 

[ricohill]

His first team had Johnny Hill (Purdue), Ziesloft (Indiana), Ekey (Illinois), Zeke Upshaw (RIP) (G League) in addition to Carmichael and Brown. It wasn’t like he was handed an empty deck. Also had Wilkins.

Let me know when we have a team as remotely as talented as that group again. I’m not sure we have anyone that is good enough to transfer to a power 5 program and play right now.

That first year was a sign of the disaster to come. Good enough to almost beat the eventual national champion at Louisville, but poorly coached enough to blow a 19 point lead at home to Wyoming and start off 0-6 in the MVC.

 

[Birdfriend72]

The team and the core is getting worse under Dan. What makes anyone think he can magically coach them up? the saddest part of it, is that he was such a damn good defensive player yet he has no ability to coach man to man defense. The players have the athleticism to keep up, but he clearly can’t mentally teach them how to do it. We sit back in a soft zone where Dan actually says he prefers teams shoot threes and just hope they miss. Great defensive mindset

Don’t forget that Sox has amnesia! Sox is also banking that Dan can magically keep his group together to make up for the horrendous coaching of Dan! If you look at Sox board above Dan’s high turnover makes it difficult to be competitive! If he could coach the game it would be different!

 

[Birdfriend72]

His first team had Johnny Hill (Purdue), Ziesloft (Indiana), Ekey (Illinois), Zeke Upshaw (RIP) (G League) in addition to Carmichael and Brown. It wasn’t like he was handed an empty deck. Also had Wilkins.

Let me know when we have a team as remotely as talented as that group again. I’m not sure we have anyone that is good enough to transfer to a power 5 program and play right now.

That first year was a sign of the disaster to come. Good enough to almost beat the eventual national champion at Louisville, but poorly coached enough to blow a 19 point lead at home to Wyoming and start off 0-6 in the MVC.

Ekey- a real 3 maybe a 4 if you could get him to buy in! Transfer to Illinois!

Carmichael- a stud 4 or 5 that we have lacked on Mullers 2 ️ recruiting escapades through Florida.

Brown- many might argue with this...but would be the best guard on this squad.

Johnny Hill- was in Dan’s doghouse like so many and transfer to Purdue.

Zeisloft- ended up being a great shooter for Indiana.

I didn’t mention that it wasn’t like Hawkins and McIntosh moved on to the NBA! Did they go to Boston College and Oregon to get a better degree?

Muller did a great job retaining valuable pieces. I’m waiting for some excuses for Danny. I’m sure they are coming.

 

[gobirds85]

2012-13
Dan takes over a team that finished 9-9 with 1 NIT win in 2011-12
Nic Moore follows Jank, leaving Dan without a point guard.
With Sophomore Johnny Hill forced to play PG the Birds:
Lost to Northwestern by 3
Lost to Louisville (and the Refs) by 3
Won @ Dayton
Beat #16 Creighton

2013-14
Without Carmichael, Brown, Wilkins, and Ekey (4 of his previous year starters) the Birds finish 9-9
Dan’s recruiting class includes:
Daishon Knight
Bobby Hunter
Zach Lofton
Paris Lee
Tony Wills
Reggie Lynch

2014-15 looks promising, but Freshman Reggie Lynch leaves, leaving Dan without a legitimate Center.
Birds still go 11-7 and make it to the MVC Tournament Championship Game.

2015-16 Birds go 12-6
Despite Nic Moore transferring prior to Dan’s first season, losing Jackie Carmichael, Tyler Brown, John Wilkins, and Jon Ekey after Dan’s first season, the Redbirds record improved each year after Dan’s first season.

2016-17
Redbirds go 17-1 and get screwed by the NCAA Tournament Selection Committee. They lose to Wichita State in the MVC Tournament Championship Game. Lose by 1 point to a very good Central Florida team (1 points loss cost the Redbird faithful a visit from the Illini to Redbird Arena)

2017-18
Despite losing McIntosh, Hawkins, Lee, and Wills to graduation & transfers, and PG Elijah Clarence missing pre-season training, and all of non-con games, the Redbirds still make it back to the MVC Tournament Championship Game (3 of the last 4)

2018-19
Season starts out with Elijah Clarance leaving team to go play overseas. After two last second half-court shot losses, Birds finish 9-9.

2019-20
Birds go 5-13 for their first losing season under Dan since his first year’s 8-10 record.

2020-21
Starts out with Keith Fisher III opting out. Starting four wings (2 Freshman/2 Sophomores) and a JUCO Center has made for a rough start, but I remain confident that this young group will be the foundation of good things to come for Redbird Basketball.

So my takeaway is that we had moments of goodness, but in typical muller form we couldn't win the "big" one. And now the team is sliding back into it's third straight Thursday night and you are ok with that?

In racing, we have a simple saying, "it's not where you start, it's where you finish", so by looking at your breakdown we finish like crap.

Nine years. Three Thursday nights. 2-2 in the NIT. Zero ncaa bids. Nothing is going to change here until he is removed.

 

[Birdfriend72]

So my takeaway is that we had moments of goodness, but in typical muller form we couldn't win the "big" one. And now the team is sliding back into it's third straight Thursday night and you are ok with that?

In racing, we have a simple saying, "it's not where you start, it's where you finish", so by looking at your breakdown we finish like crap.

Nine years. Three Thursday nights. 2-2 in the NIT. Zero ncaa bids. Nothing is going to change here until he is removed.

The recruiting is trending down! I hope that when you shuffle through 20-30 players In four seasons you are going to find 4 solid ones. We have some talent on this roster...I don’t think anyone would disagree with this. It’s finding the remaining pieces and putting it together on the floor.

 

[TBS_20]

i agree the recruiting is trending down. 3/4 of these guys wouldnt be on a redbird team through 2010. and the love for keith fisher. lol. hes not good. is he our best. maybe, but that shows the state of the program. he wouldnt factor into more wins.

 

[CaliRdBrd]

For what it’s worth, I do believe the current core will be part of a winning team........with Dan as the coach!

So RedbirdSoxFan is Mrs Muller? Now we know

 

[Birdfriend72]

i agree the recruiting is trending down. 3/4 of these guys wouldnt be on a redbird team through 2010. and the love for keith fisher. lol. hes not good. is he our best. maybe, but that shows the state of the program. he wouldnt factor into more

So RedbirdSoxFan is Mrs Muller? Now we know

Soxfan sure is trying to advocate for Dan. I give her credit.

 

[redbirdfan04]

Cali, Birdfriend, TBS, Rico and anyone else that is still here, what does success look like to you then? I tend to agree to disagree with you guys but honestly we all want the same thing in the end, a winning basketball team. To me I would like to see a fresh face on the sideline ( I am not debating if or when that is going to happen), and a program that finishes in the top three of Valley consistently. Making the NCAA tournament would of course be nice but if we are in the top three we will probably get multiple NIT bids as well. I actually prefer we stay in the Valley as I think we can recruit high caliber players and be a top 25 team staying in the conference.

As a fan if we are keeping kids in the program all four/five years, finishing at the top the Valley, Getting to Sunday in Arch Madness and able to debate NIT/NCAA tournament bids with the team that is enough value to keep me coming to games.

I'm also posting this because I am truly tired of arguing with other fans of the same team. This has only happened due to the loss column being filled up the last few years. I'm pretty sure when things get turned around our old asses would all sit together at a sweet 16 game screaming our heads off at Gerry Pollard because God knows he would get assigned to the game!

 

[Redbird222]

His first team had Johnny Hill (Purdue), Ziesloft (Indiana), Ekey (Illinois), Zeke Upshaw (RIP) (G League) in addition to Carmichael and Brown. It wasn’t like he was handed an empty deck. Also had Wilkins.

Let me know when we have a team as remotely as talented as that group again. I’m not sure we have anyone that is good enough to transfer to a power 5 program and play right now.

That first year was a sign of the disaster to come. Good enough to almost beat the eventual national champion at Louisville, but poorly coached enough to blow a 19 point lead at home to Wyoming and start off 0-6 in the MVC.

In the first year, I am pretty sure Brown was benched at halftime of the first conference game. I think he may have played in the sixth game. The team had turn it around and beat a top 25 Creighton team. They were on a roll and was beating WSU when the famous Jackie karate kick happened.

The other loss after the 0- 6 start that I recall was to Bradley. In that game we had a big lead just before halftime and Johnny Hill got a technical. He was then benched for the remainder of the game and we loss a close one with essentially Keane and Cousins struggling to play point. I think we may have had 20 turnovers in the second half. I can't remember what the lead was at the time but it stung.

 

[TBS_20]

Per

Cali, Birdfriend, TBS, Rico and anyone else that is still here, what does success look like to you then? I tend to agree to disagree with you guys but honestly we all want the same thing in the end, a winning basketball team. To me I would like to see a fresh face on the sideline ( I am not debating if or when that is going to happen), and a program that finishes in the top three of Valley consistently. Making the NCAA tournament would of course be nice but if we are in the top three we will probably get multiple NIT bids as well. I actually prefer we stay in the Valley as I think we can recruit high caliber players and be a top 25 team staying in the conference.

As a fan if we are keeping kids in the program all four/five years, finishing at the top the Valley, Getting to Sunday in Arch Madness and able to debate NIT/NCAA tournament bids with the team that is enough value to keep me coming to games.

I'm also posting this because I am truly tired of arguing with other fans of the same team. This has only happened due to the loss column being filled up the last few years. I'm pretty sure when things get turned around our old asses would all sit together at a sweet 16 game screaming our heads off at Gerry Pollard because God knows he would get assigned to the game!

Perennial NIT team with at least 3 NCAA tournaments per decade. 18-12 doesnt cut it. To be in the MVC and be a perennial NIT team you need to be 22-8 to ensure an NIT at-large. 20-10 doesnt even guarantee an at-large to the NIT anymore for the MVC. Sure, you can get in with a worse record if you finish first in your conference regular season but miss the NCAA tournament. Anything less then fire the coach and keep trying until we get it right. In mid-majors you cannot settle for mediocrity. 18-12 might be a .600 win percentage but it does nothing but get you into the CBI and you might as well just stay home if thats the case.

 

[Trey_Guidry4three]

The only player that stuck around and was actually good that Dan brought in was Paris Lee and he wanted to transfer out. For a small school not to routinely have 4 year guys stick around is one thing.... to not have them at all is like playing a crumbling game of jenga. When Horne or Reeves transfer out after this year I would hope that is one of the final daggers on Dan's copious resume.