Chris Payton Decommits from Illinois State

[ISU FAN 1]

It's a shame Payton won't most likely wind up at Illinois State, but to be honest, that's not really the caliber of athlete this university wants to attract.... if they did they wouldn't be operating like they do. He's the kind of player Illinois State could get, should get but they just want to run the athletic dept so small time that they chase many of these type of recruits (and fans) away. It's a real shame, because it never had to be like this.

How specifically did they chase him away? From my perspective, he watched a team on the come last year, that has quickly collapsed with defections, and the trademark Redbird bad luck. The Big 3 will be gone by Payton's freshmen year, if not earlier. Guess he isn't interested in being the man. Or maybe, just doesn't see great opportunity for team success based on what will be left, which I tend to agree with at this point. I feel bad for Muller. At least as bad as I can for someone making a lot of money to coach basketball at his alma mater. And working for an AD that presents no apparent impediment to future employment. But, this program isn't moving in a real positive direction right now. The only outcome I see is continued mediocrity in an increasingly weaker conference. Would love to see Muller move on for the right reason, meaning he takes ISU dancing. But going from 17-1 to bottom feeder in this shit-bag league is pretty sobering.

This is why you shouldn’t fill your roster with scrubs. We take Hein to secure David’s Scholarship. We take Martin for one year, along with Gassman (3 scholarships). Tinsley is a bust (4 scholarships). We lose three players that are impactful after next season....and let’s be honest...there is no guarantee the two bigs coming in are going to cut it. The recruiting has been below marginal since Dana Ford has left. Hence...that’s why he is a head coach.

Don't look now, but Dana Ford is stinking it up at Tennessee State. He'll be out of a job before Muller IMO. If you haven't noticed, the Dana Ford to replace Muller someday chatter has lost most of its traction on this board. Partly because Muller doesn't appear destined for departure anytime soon. But Ford's star is no longer rising either.

 

[ISU FAN 1]

Payton goes to every almost every game. Why would he want to go to ISU and their half empty stadium with poor support when he's getting calls from the big boys?

I don't even think this has anything to do with us, honestly. I think P5 teams have come along and whispered sweet basketball nothings in his ear, and like any 17 year old basketball player he wants to play for the big teams on TV. I don't blame him, and I'm not mad at him (though admitted I could do without the false sincerity about still considering us), but I don't think it has anything to do with us as a program. I honestly think we could be sitting undefeated right now, and if P5 teams came calling on him he'd do the same thing.

Yup. But we're not doing much right now, team-wise, to keep the kid. Has anyone seen Chris play in person?

I watched him last week at NCHS. And that gym was more packed with excited and energized fans than I have seen at any ISU game this year. That's a problem. Here's a picture of me salivating with great anticipation of him coming to ISU.

 

[Hamdonger]

Yup. But we're not doing much right now, team-wise, to keep the kid. Has anyone seen Chris play in person?

I watched him last week at NCHS. Here's a picture of me salivating with great anticipation.

Ok, but what does that mean? Give me a rundown on the kid. In person rundown.

 

[ISU FAN 1]

Yup. But we're not doing much right now, team-wise, to keep the kid. Has anyone seen Chris play in person?

I watched him last week at NCHS. Here's a picture of me salivating with great anticipation.

Ok, but what does that mean? Give me a rundown on the kid. In person rundown.

He does everything, and does it well. Athletic, can shoot from the perimeter, or take it to the bucket. Good handles for 6'6". I think he could have been the same matchup nightmare in the MVC that Yarbrough is. Of course, we would need to put more around him to prevent double teams. For what each could be in the MVC, I would take Payton over Okoro in a heartbeat.

Probably a shitty rundown, but he just easily passes my eye test for the kind of player ISU needs to play at a high level in the MVC. Then again, my eye test has stunk before. Aaron Simpson comes to mind. I honestly think Payton would play a lot of minutes for ISU this year.

 

[DWRedbird]

This is why you shouldn’t fill your roster with scrubs. We take Hein to secure David’s Scholarship. We take Martin for one year, along with Gassman (3 scholarships). Tinsley is a bust (4 scholarships). We lose three players that are impactful after next season....and let’s be honest...there is no guarantee the two bigs coming in are going to cut it. The recruiting has been below marginal since Dana Ford has left. Hence...that’s why he is a head coach.

1. What studs would you have put on the roster with the click of your heels? I know you think that recruiting should just be this easy thing, and that Muller should be able to snap his fingers and put All-NCAA players on the roster every year, but real world doesn't work like that. Recruiting for a mid-major is much, much tougher than you would believe.

2. Recruiting/Scouting in and of itself is a crapshoot. You don't know how a player is going to play at the D1 level until you get a kid on the floor, and sometimes you don't even really know until a kid has been with your staff and starts to develop. Sometimes you find studs immediately (Nic Moore), sometimes you find diamonds in the rough (Jackie Carmichael, Dinma Odiakosa), and sometimes you find busts (Justin Clark). But, you don't know until you get them here and let them play. Boogie was good at his junior college, and from what has been said he is stellar in practice. He can't seem to relate it, offensively on the floor. Give the kid time, and as he adds the element of driving to his game, I think he gets much better offensively.

3. Martin and Gassman were given scholarships just before the year started. It wasn't like he gave them both a schollie right away and stopped recruiting. I'm fairly certain they were given their scholarships because they were open last minute. They were both only given the scholarships for the year (Martin because he was in his last year, and Gassman because it was available and he could earn it). Both scholarships could technically be open for next year. Recruiting talent has never really been the issue. It is retention. We need to retain the talent we bring in.

 

[JHBird]

Payton goes to every almost every game. Why would he want to go to ISU and their half empty stadium with poor support when he's getting calls from the big boys?

I don't even think this has anything to do with us, honestly. I think P5 teams have come along and whispered sweet basketball nothings in his ear, and like any 17 year old basketball player he wants to play for the big teams on TV. I don't blame him, and I'm not mad at him (though admitted I could do without the false sincerity about still considering us), but I don't think it has anything to do with us as a program. I honestly think we could be sitting undefeated right now, and if P5 teams came calling on him he'd do the same thing.

Yup. But we're not doing much right now, team-wise, to keep the kid. Has anyone seen Chris play in person?

I saw him play Joliet West at the Pontiac Tourny over the Holidays. The Oak Park team was going to play Bloomington next so the whole team was in the stands scouting the game. Payton had a really nice put back jam and the Oak Park coach eyes got really big as he turned to look at his players. I knew that was a bad omen. The kid is just too good to be playing in the Valley. I asked somebody who watches a lot of local high school basketball who was a better player, Chastain or Payton. He had to think about it a little, but said Payton (of course Chris is still just a Junior). I think Matt will be a good player for us though, but I've never seen him play in person. Just going by what other people said who watched Leroy win it all.

 

[CaliRdBrd]

I think it’s hard to get kids to come here and stay her because this program isn’t fun. Yeah, I’ve seen the karaoke videos, but I’m talking about the style of play. Kids want a free-wheelin’, high flying, type of offense where they can create. Not a stodgy “Hoosier” style of offense with 4 passes before every shot. Just look at how far FGCU has come in a short amount of time.
Muller needs to let these kids fly. I mean, it makes zero sense recruiting all these long, athletic, types if you’re not gonna let ‘em be true to the style of play that got them here.
Plus lots of dunks, and alley-oops, put asses in the seats and create energy...something that has been sorely lacking for YEARS!

 

[SgtHulka]

Have seen him a couple of times. Decent ball handler, great passer, solid in drive/penetration moves and court vision. Solid offensively inside of 10 feet, fair outside of 10 feet. Good free throw shooter. Same general strengths and weaknesses as Milik pretty much, skills wise. Not saying he's another Milik, just speaking in overall generalities for those about to say that I said hes as good as Milik or whatever

 

[ISU FAN 1]

I think it’s hard to get kids to come here and stay her because this program isn’t fun. Yeah, I’ve seen the karaoke videos, but I’m talking about the style of play. Kids want a free-wheelin’, high flying, type of offense where they can create. Not a stodgy “Hoosier” style of offense with 4 passes before every shot. Just look at how far FGCU has come in a short amount of time.
Muller needs to let these kids fly. I mean, it makes zero sense recruiting all these long, athletic, types if you’re not gonna let ‘em be true to the style of play that got them here.
Plus lots of dunks, and alley-oops, put asses in the seats and create energy...something that has been sorely lacking for YEARS!

I feel the opposite. I expected Hooiser ball when Dan arrived. What I have gotten is different. Kids these days just want to shoot 3s and dunk. We shoot 3s to a very high degree .... too many sometimes. And anyone who wants to dunk, please feel free to do so. We finally had an excellent defensive team last year. That's what I expected from Dan, considering that was his trademark as a player. I don't find Dan's style to be the problem. And I think players find the style appealing. But he needs the horses to pull it off. Last year, he had them. This year, he doesn't.

 

[ISU FAN 1]

Have seen him a couple of times. Decent ball handler, great passer, solid in drive/penetration moves and court vision. Solid offensively inside of 10 feet, fair outside of 10 feet. Good free throw shooter. Same general strengths and weaknesses as Milik pretty much, skills wise. Not saying he's another Milik, just speaking in overall generalities for those about to say that I said hes as good as Milik or whatever

I agree. Considering Milik is 22, and 4-5 years ahead on the development curve, I don't think it's outrageous to draw that comparison.

 

[isuquinndog]

Jim Mattson tweeted that Kansas, K-State and Northwestern have contacted Payton already. Also a separate report says Kansas assistant Jerrance Howard will be in Bloomington to visit today.

 

[Chicagobirdfan]

That's really the story right there.

It's a win for this program to even get this close at this point. ISU hasn't danced in this kid's lifetime. And basically, basketball irrelevant. Being local is probably about all we had going for us relative to Payton. Gets harder all the time to find a compelling argument for a top recruit to come here.

Don't really disagree with ya.

I hate this mentality and do not consider it a win to have a kid verbal to ISU to just decommitt.

 

[ISU FAN 1]

Jim Mattson tweeted that Kansas, K-State and Northwestern have contacted Payton already. Also a separate report says Kansas assistant Jerrance Howard will be in Bloomington to visit today.

I was going to joke that Weber was involved.

 

[ISU FAN 1]

It's a win for this program to even get this close at this point. ISU hasn't danced in this kid's lifetime. And basically, basketball irrelevant. Being local is probably about all we had going for us relative to Payton. Gets harder all the time to find a compelling argument for a top recruit to come here.

Don't really disagree with ya.

I hate this mentality and do not consider it a win to have a kid verbal to ISU to just decommitt.

The first sentence was sarcasm. The last sentence was not.

 

[cubird]

Terrance $ bags Howard :think:

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

Jim Mattson tweeted that Kansas, K-State and Northwestern have contacted Payton already. Also a separate report says Kansas assistant Jerrance Howard will be in Bloomington to visit today.

Northwestern would be a great landing spot with new practice facility, renovated stadium, program trending in right direction and strong alumni network. I hope he ends up there vs other two.

 

[ISU FAN 1]

Jim Mattson tweeted that Kansas, K-State and Northwestern have contacted Payton already. Also a separate report says Kansas assistant Jerrance Howard will be in Bloomington to visit today.

Northwestern would be a great landing spot with new practice facility, renovated stadium, program trending in right direction and strong alumni network. I hope he ends up there vs other two.

I hope he goes to Kansas and rides the pine.

 

[ricohill]

Jim Mattson tweeted that Kansas, K-State and Northwestern have contacted Payton already. Also a separate report says Kansas assistant Jerrance Howard will be in Bloomington to visit today.

Northwestern would be a great landing spot with new practice facility, renovated stadium, program trending in right direction and strong alumni network. I hope he ends up there vs other two.

Not taking a shot at Payton, but I think Northwestern might be a long shot based on what I know about his academics. I'm not getting into it on here, but I see him more likely landing at a Kansas, Kansas State, etc...and there is nothing wrong with that.

I don't blame Payton at all over this. In college sports today, until you sign you are still open to being recruited. The only mistake he probably made was making a verbal commitment as early as he did.

For those saying it's a win that we got a verbal, I disagree. Coaches aren't paid to almost get kids. Coaches are paid to recruit and retain players that help you win games.

 

[ricohill]

I think it’s hard to get kids to come here and stay her because this program isn’t fun. Yeah, I’ve seen the karaoke videos, but I’m talking about the style of play. Kids want a free-wheelin’, high flying, type of offense where they can create. Not a stodgy “Hoosier” style of offense with 4 passes before every shot. Just look at how far FGCU has come in a short amount of time.
Muller needs to let these kids fly. I mean, it makes zero sense recruiting all these long, athletic, types if you’re not gonna let ‘em be true to the style of play that got them here.
Plus lots of dunks, and alley-oops, put asses in the seats and create energy...something that has been sorely lacking for YEARS!

I'm not sure style of play had anything to do with it. However, recruits become friends with current players. Most of the time your best recruiters are your players. It wouldn't surprise me if the guys Payton had been spending time with and talking to on this team mentioned how they feel about Muller.

You can call it discipline or whatever you would like, but a high percentage of players since Dan took over haven't liked playing for Muller. Even the seniors last year couldn't stand Muller most of the time. I would guess the treatment of this current group hasn't been pleasant and Payton probably was being told about it from players on the team.

 

[Adunk33]

This had nothing to do with ISU. This had everything to do with the "three teams that are just now showing interest." One thing that shouldn't be mentioned that should be is in Benson's article.

As for Payton’s decision to decommit from ISU, Mosley said, “It’s tough. Of course, living here you want him to play for the home team … not that Illinois State is the only school. I want what’s best for him.

“I can understand it, but I also want him to understand the importance and value of commitment. Hopefully he has had that conversation with Illinois State … that he may not have thought this thing through in the manner that he should have.”

http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college/illinois-state/bhs-star-payton-decommits-from-isu-reopens-recruitment/article_60b07871-496f-59cb-a108-f421e581cc16.html

I have spoken with Mosley several times. He got the BHS job my senior year there. Good guy with a good head on his shoulders. Maybe Chris will reconsider, probably not, but who knows. If he does magically decide to "recommit," we can probably sit comfortably knowing he wont transfer. He is going to have everyone after him.

Whoever mentioned they would rather have Payton over Okoro :text-+1: