Bradley - 02/08/2023 - 7:00 PM - ESPN+

[Scipio]

Exactly. Plus, how do you know who someone is cheering for when they buy tickets? It's not like they lied about being a random charity to get discounted/group tickets. We were able to buy tickets at Western Michigan about 3 rows from the floor years ago. If our fans won't show up might as well make money off the Bradley fans. Looked like plenty of them were also helping out beer sales last night. What we need is for Redbird fans to show up and support their team.

The usher informed us ISU reserved 50 tickets in the lower bowl in section 108 or 109 and 100 seats in the upper bowl. I don’t have a problem with upper bowl seating for opposing fans; even PU. But I’ve got a big issue with paying usury fees for season tickets for a substandard team and having to endure opposition fans seated around me. There’s plenty of room for them in the upper bowl.

 

[Popsto4]

I would still preach patience. None of the players that are on this roster will be present when we are competitive for the Championship again. My hope is that they can show some improvement next season to help us with recruiting. Pedon needs to be able to show recruits that we are on our way up and not just sitting at the bottom of the Valley.

I think it’s very possible me the Redbirds scan be an upper tier team in this league next year. Trust me this is a good league but none of the top tier teams are world beaters either. The Birds have taken some whippings for sure but also have played them tough in other games and have beaten a few of them. It’s all about experience and pieces. The returners will have another year in them next year. Bring in the needed pieces continue to work hard and let’s see what happen next year. I look forward to it.

 

[SlackBooDom]

Looking at our roster, who’s going to hold them back? And you don’t have to average 20+ minutes per game to make significant contributions.

Our roster isn't going to hold them back. That is why I don't understand where the huge step forward comes from. I've seen everything from upper half of the league to above .500 in the MVC. I've yet to hear a case as to why. We have a roster not good enough to keep freshmen off the floor, but the same roster added in with freshmen is going to be that much better? Like Humdinger said, these kids are playing at lower level high schools this season. I just haven't read anything that gives me the optimism everyone else has. That's all.

 

[Bird Friend]

Dave I can tell you for fact that the staff is expecting JohnnyK to be a backup at PG his freshman year...not a starter. Now perhaps he continues to get better, surprises us all and grabs that PG spot. To his credit he's had a great HS career.

I like our signees but folks, let me remind you...even to a school like Illinois State...from relatively small schools like SJO (Ty Pence), and De Pere isn't huge...it is a TREMENDOUS jump in organized competition. Tremendous. Yeah yeah yeah summer travel ball and the competition I get it...but put them in a college arena where they are on scholarship to perform, and under constant scrutiny from an intense coaching staff (let alone Redbirdfan posters)...it's a different ballgame. First you have to adjust to playing with your new teammates...then comes an adjustment to live practice...then comes an adjustment to actually playing in the game...at this level. It's a road, man.

I know Ty carries a good rep (and gang I like him) but I'd be surprised if he averaged more than 8 a game for us next year...if that.

Plus you think returnees or experienced transfers are just going to lay down and let these freshman take their slots?? Ideally all 3 come in and change the direction of our program but I don't see these frosh doing it next year. Year 2? Could be!

I understand your concerns, but AAU has changed a lot of the calculus. These guys play top flight talent regularly during AAU season. I don’t think it’s as big of a hill as it used to be. And nobody is suggesting the experienced guys are or should lay down, but I don’t see a lot on this roster that needs to lay down for one or more of our newcomers to beat them out for PT.

 

[Reggie Redbird]

I had to endure this game surrounded by PU fans. That’s another subject (Administration: why are you allowing opposition parties tickets in the lower bowl and clustered). Yes, all the breaks were going PU way last night. But we’ve just got to be better. My frustration is overflowing. I’m seriously having doubts we can come back from this. Last night was just soul crushing.

I believe we have to give BU certain number of tickets behind the bench, in the stands, vs on the floor. But you could probably walk up to the gate tonight and get good lower bowl seats. BU used to travel with a ton more fans a decade ago. I was shocked to see their fan base so small, tied for first.

With how the revenue would help us, I would have been fine with 1k Bradley fans there. We have to do things to make up for the buyouts paid out the last 5 years.

 

[Brick]

Here’s the issue I see with our point guard play and Mal. It started in the first Northern Iowa game especially. When we run our high screens we get invariably double teamed. Then Mal or whomever just backs the ball out of the double team and we start over. If there’s a double team then someone is open. BUT our guards don’t have the skills and experience to make the other team pay for it. The little guy can beat that trap at times. Ergo Mal would be better suited at the two guard spot. Our screeners do try to roll to the basket but we can’t get them the ball.

 

[Redbirdfan06]

Brad Underwood was 109-27 and had coached at the Power 5 level. Brian Wardle was 95-65 off back-to-back NIT appearances. Those are slightly different scenarios than what we are working with.

Please explain how those scenarios are different than what Pedon is working with?

Underwood had coached one year at a power 5 before taking the U of I job. In year 3 at U of I, he scraped his entire defense because it wasn’t working and that’s when the team took off.

Wardle was a defensive coach but his first two years at Bradley they weren’t very good defensively and had some of the worst offenses in college basketball those years. His team that made the tournament had no main contributors from that first season. And that team that made the tournament lost 15 games and got hot in the MVC tournament. They could have been a play in team that year.

 

[Aggie]

The one thing I believe all ISU men’s basketball fans need to remind ourselves is why would a really good player come here? My guess we are not very high on the NIL pay scale. This is a program that 20-30 years ago had a reputation as a destination for very good basketball but not in the recent past. How long has it been since the NCAA appearance? Freshmen were not even born then. My hope is they come here because Pedon can make them winners. I will continue to support even though is has been very frustrating for years. Even when we had a good team and a chance to beat Illinois on our home court it did not come to fruition. Not sure if we can right the ship but I will still be here.
Being involved in agriculture in the Midwest you have to tolerate all the big 10 stuff. But now you go to a regional agricultural meeting and one has to tolerate the South Dakota/North Dakota STATE stuff. All I am asking for from this administration is a little respect in the Men’s basketball and football programs. We need a turnaround and a turnaround pretty quick, but not sure it will happen. I put most of this on the ISU leadership. Here’s hoping for a turnaround.

 

[SlackBooDom]

Please explain how those scenarios are different than what Pedon is working with?

Underwood had coached one year at a power 5 before taking the U of I job. In year 3 at U of I, he scraped his entire defense because it wasn’t working and that’s when the team took off.

Wardle was a defensive coach but his first two years at Bradley they weren’t very good defensively and had some of the worst offenses in college basketball those years. His team that made the tournament had no main contributors from that first season. And that team that made the tournament lost 15 games and got hot in the MVC tournament. They could have been a play in team that year.

The scenario is they had proven track records as Division I head coaches. That one feels pretty clear.

 

[SgtHulka]

Here's a distraction from the Bradley game. I like that they seem to have a muppet announcing the game.

 

[SgtHulka]

So I guess this is what kind of rubs me the wrong way. Even if he doesn't think Kotov, Andrews, Schmitt are any good, why not run your offense through them anyways, so you can run the offense you want to run instead of the bastarized version we run now? What's the worst that will happen, we lose? So what we are already doing it. At least the guys that do return will know what we are planning for next year if we do.

Maybe its that he's playing the guys he wants to keep. The end of the bench are all Muller guys who stayed. He plays walkon guards more than the scholarship posts, rewarding their skin in the game. Great guys to have hanging around at practice

He needs to develop a base he can work with consistently IMHO. And he's starting with his guys, Mayor McCheese and Lewis. Losing players to the portal is a given, but i pray the days of 7 moving on year after year are over. If he can get to where we have 7 or 8 returnees each year (barring the odd 4-5 seniors years ) we can maybe start moving the program forward.

 

[Hamdonger]

Here’s the issue I see with our point guard play and Mal. It started in the first Northern Iowa game especially. When we run our high screens we get invariably double teamed. Then Mal or whomever just backs the ball out of the double team and we start over. If there’s a double team then someone is open. BUT our guards don’t have the skills and experience to make the other team pay for it. The little guy can beat that trap at times. Ergo Mal would be better suited at the two guard spot. Our screeners do try to roll to the basket but we can’t get them the ball.

Leave it to Coach for a breakdown. Brickers you should be on TV cause in a 20 second spill you laid it out. That's exactly what happens. We frequently double-whammy it by the slow enter into offense...we back out...4 sweet 'lil 'Birds hanging on perimeter perch...sometimes 5 FT line beyond. All of which, at this point, is no surprise to our opponents. Surprise us all by grabbing consecutive wins these last 2 weeks, boys.

 

[Redbirdfan06]

The scenario is they had proven track records as Division I head coaches. That one feels pretty clear.

Isn’t that what you posted earlier: “For clarification on my original point, I'm not at all down on Pedon. I do think there are valid concerns we've seen almost no improvement as the year has gone on.”

But those were proven coaches that struggled their first couple of years developing an identity and didn’t show much improvement. You don’t think there were concerns with them? Which is what your original argument was. And Underwood and Wardle took 2-3 years before they had the players in place and they started seeing results based on the types of programs they run.

But Pedon has to have this established in year one? Other than the fact Pedon is a first year head coach and those guys weren’t, give me actual game examples of how underwood and wardle had their fan base thinking after year one those coaches were going to turn things around?

 

[SgtHulka]

Leave it to Coach for a breakdown. Brickers you should be on TV cause in a 20 second spill you laid it out. That's exactly what happens. We frequently double-whammy it by the slow enter into offense...we back out...4 sweet 'lil 'Birds hanging on perimeter perch...sometimes 5 FT line beyond. All of which, at this point, is no surprise to our opponents. Surprise us all by grabbing consecutive wins these last 2 weeks, boys.

Example from last night, Mast goes tumbling 10' out of bounds as we grab the board and have a 5 on 4 fast break opportunity.and no big to clog the lane, but we trotted the ball up court at our normal pace, missed a shot that Mast was able to beat our guys to for the rebound. I was screaming to push it. Then remembered we were 20 down and changed my focus.

We need a point guard minded starter, but we are flush with 2,3 and 4s in the rotation. Hoping next year brings us a transfer 1 and 5 to go along with the current class and the regular rotation guys stay. Fill in with best available with any more ships or another frosh big

 

[SlackBooDom]

Isn’t that what you posted earlier: “For clarification on my original point, I'm not at all down on Pedon. I do think there are valid concerns we've seen almost no improvement as the year has gone on.”

But those were proven coaches that struggled their first couple of years developing an identity and didn’t show much improvement. You don’t think there were concerns with them? Which is what your original argument was. And Underwood and Wardle took 2-3 years before they had the players in place and they started seeing results based on the types of programs they run.

But Pedon has to have this established in year one? Other than the fact Pedon is a first year head coach and those guys weren’t, give me actual game examples of how underwood and wardle had their fan base thinking after year one those coaches were going to turn things around?

I feel like you’re just fighting for the sake of fighting at this point, so I’ll make it as clear as I can. Someone else told me to look at Wardle and Underwood because they are in the area. I said that it’s different because they had Division I coaching experience. If they struggled in year one or two, you could look at their track record of having built something at a previous institution to know it’s possible. We don’t have that, because Pedon hasn’t been a head coach.

You already used the incorrect metrics once, but again to be as clear as possible, here’s my point. They didn’t struggle to create an identity. Bradley had a top 130 defense on KenPom Wardle’s first year. It’s dipped below that one time. That’s an identity. Underwood had a top 86 defense his first year. It’s never dipped below that. That’s an identity. You know that’s their identity and to trust in the process because they’d done it before at other schools. The identity is set in year one you’re going to be an elite defensive team and when you have the players it’s going to bring success. It worked for them at previous stops.

My question to you because you just keep asking me things - what is our year one identity you see in place that we are going to move forward and build on?

 

[Reggie Redbird]

Looking at the roster for next year, even if all 3 freshmen come in no contribute, are they more than a wash to losing Knight, Sandage, and perhaps Lewis from the top 7 of the rotation? I hope Lewis stays for a 5th year, but he may say he wants to try playing overseas. I guess we’ll see on Senior Night. Even keeping him, we’d be 8-9 guys deep?

I don’t see Poindexter, Kasubke, or Burford leaving being brought in by Pedon. Assume McChesney and Sissoko are back based on their PT so far, you still need a lot more contributors. I don’t see anyone else on the roster, barring tremendous off-season improvement, cracking the rotation that plays.

to get to having more guys who contribute either find some JUCO players - your next Boo, Slack, Fayne, Tyler Brown, Emmanuel Holloway - or transfers. A PG is #1 for me is top priority since we have posts on the roster and I think we are much better with Poindexter as a 2. Someone with 2 years left could really pair nicely with Kinzinger.

 

[Redbirdfan06]

I feel like you’re just fighting for the sake of fighting at this point, so I’ll make it as clear as I can. Someone else told me to look at Wardle and Underwood because they are in the area. I said that it’s different because they had Division I coaching experience. If they struggled in year one or two, you could look at their track record of having built something at a previous institution to know it’s possible. We don’t have that, because Pedon hasn’t been a head coach.

You already used the incorrect metrics once, but again to be as clear as possible, here’s my point. They didn’t struggle to create an identity. Bradley had a top 130 defense on KenPom Wardle’s first year. It’s dipped below that one time. That’s an identity. Underwood had a top 86 defense his first year. It’s never dipped below that. That’s an identity. You know that’s their identity and to trust in the process because they’d done it before at other schools. The identity is set in year one you’re going to be an elite defensive team and when you have the players it’s going to bring success. It worked for them at previous stops.

My question to you because you just keep asking me things - what is our year one identity you see in place that we are going to move forward and build on?

So why is your Ken Pom adjusted d a correct metric but the one I used incorrect? Any more you can find any metric to fit your argument.

Here’s our identify. Pedon has already doubled the win total that wardle had in year one at Bradley. By year four, maybe we can barely avoid the play in game and catch fire in the valley tournament to get into the NCAA tournament with 15 losses. And at that point we can say Pedon has an identity. Wow, I didn’t need an adjusted defensive efficiency against D1 teams mascots that are an actual animal.

 

[SlackBooDom]

So why is your Ken Pom adjusted d a correct metric but the one I used incorrect? Any more you can find any metric to fit your argument.

Here’s our identify. Pedon has already doubled the win total that wardle had in year one at Bradley. By year four, maybe we can barely avoid the play in game and catch fire in the valley tournament to get into the NCAA tournament with 15 losses. And at that point we can say Pedon has an identity. Wow, I didn’t need an adjusted defensive efficiency against D1 teams mascots that are an actual animal.

It’s widely regarded as the most accurate advanced analytics tool and factors in every data point from a team to create their profile. Do you have a better way for me to measure the point? I’ll happily look into it if you can point me in the right direction.

I’m guessing based on avoiding the question you don’t have an answer, but I’m ready whenever.

 

[dpdoughbird06]

I believe we have to give BU certain number of tickets behind the bench, in the stands, vs on the floor. But you could probably walk up to the gate tonight and get good lower bowl seats. BU used to travel with a ton more fans a decade ago. I was shocked to see their fan base so small, tied for first.

With how the revenue would help us, I would have been fine with 1k Bradley fans there. We have to do things to make up for the buyouts paid out the last 5 years.

Weren’t we selling Bradley game tickets for $7.40? That’s less than a women’s game (it probably should be, based on which team is on the ten-game win streak).

But we’re not going to finish paying off Muller and Barb Smith with deals like that.

 

[Redbirdfan06]

It’s widely regarded as the most accurate advanced analytics tool and factors in every data point from a team to create their profile. Do you have a better way for me to measure the point? I’ll happily look into it if you can point me in the right direction.

I’m guessing based on avoiding the question you don’t have an answer, but I’m ready whenever.

According to Ken Pom, Ohio state is the 33rd best team in the country with an 11-12 record, and has won 1 game this calendar year. Nebraska is ahead of them in the big ten standings. I like Oliver with basketball reference more as far as metrics.