Bradley - 02/08/2023 - 7:00 PM - ESPN+

[SlackBooDom]

Well, we took a whooping for sure, and I can't say I didn't kind of expect it, but my other thoughts are:

-We still have no real flow to the offense, and we have more of an accidental offense than anything else. When good things happen, at least to me, it looks more accidental than it does intentional. I think a part of this is because Pedon doesn't think he has the pieces to run his full offense, and so instead we run this bastardized version of it, where we play slow with no real direction to do anything. I think part of this is typical new HC jitters and indecisiveness, part of is players, and part of it is being down a coach.

-We should be getting to the line a minimum of 20 times a game. The line is where we thrive, and we need to live there.

-I agree with others, we need an experienced PG. Mal doesn't look comfortable running the point full time, but he looks the most comfortable on the team right now.

- I'm not getting excited one way or the other this year. We are more or less the same team we were at the start of the year. Some of the players have developed, but being down a coach we haven't really developed as a team overall as I think the other coaches, especially Pedon and Jud are stretched thin.

For clarification on my original point, I'm not at all down on Pedon. I do think there are valid concerns we've seen almost no improvement as the year has gone on. There seems to be some line of thinking that it doesn't matter and this is a lost year regardless. I push back on that and ask why. Again, the guy got introduced to the team an hour after the season ended. He had ample time to recruit. He knew the situation when he accepted the job. I don't understand the sentiment of, well he can't run his offense and he's missing a point guard and a post player so oh well! I understand the core of this team CAN return, but if you're returning the core of a 6-win MVC team is that worth being excited about? For the most part, the core coming back has played 70 or more college basketball games in their career. There's enough of a sample there to say that it's likely they are what they are and aren't going to make some extraordinary leap. I find the line between blind faith and skeptical optimism pretty thin in here. Asking questions about where things are headed and what we are building isn't the same as not believing in the coach.

 

[Popsto4]

Well, we took a whooping for sure, and I can't say I didn't kind of expect it, but my other thoughts are:

-We still have no real flow to the offense, and we have more of an accidental offense than anything else. When good things happen, at least to me, it looks more accidental than it does intentional. I think a part of this is because Pedon doesn't think he has the pieces to run his full offense, and so instead we run this bastardized version of it, where we play slow with no real direction to do anything. I think part of this is typical new HC jitters and indecisiveness, part of is players, and part of it is being down a coach.

-We should be getting to the line a minimum of 20 times a game. The line is where we thrive, and we need to live there.

-I agree with others, we need an experienced PG. Mal doesn't look comfortable running the point full time, but he looks the most comfortable on the team right now.

- I'm not getting excited one way or the other this year. We are more or less the same team we were at the start of the year. Some of the players have developed, but being down a coach we haven't really developed as a team overall as I think the other coaches, especially Pedon and Jud are stretched thin.

I believe being comfortable at any position requires the whole component of all players on the floor. How comfortable would he look with a legit big man that can post at will and get buckets? All those things matter. I can tell when Mal become frustrated out there. His confidence is still high at his position. Every position require help, the pg is no exception.

 

[Manchester Matt]

For clarification on my original point, I'm not at all down on Pedon. I do think there are valid concerns we've seen almost no improvement as the year has gone on. There seems to be some line of thinking that it doesn't matter and this is a lost year regardless. I push back on that and ask why. Again, the guy got introduced to the team an hour after the season ended. He had ample time to recruit. He knew the situation when he accepted the job. I don't understand the sentiment of, well he can't run his offense and he's missing a point guard and a post player so oh well! I understand the core of this team CAN return, but if you're returning the core of a 6-win MVC team is that worth being excited about? For the most part, the core coming back has played 70 or more college basketball games in their career. There's enough of a sample there to say that it's likely they are what they are and aren't going to make some extraordinary leap. I find the line between blind faith and skeptical optimism pretty thin in here. Asking questions about where things are headed and what we are building isn't the same as not believing in the coach.

Ample time to recruit? I completely disagree with this. The three player class of prep players in this year's class are all kids that committed in July before their senior year. What prep players were available in March that were going to help? None.

The staff did a decent job finding some talent in the portal, but the task to build a roster simply from the portal and returning players from the Muller era was next to impossible at that point of the year, IMO. Returning the current core, which is essentially three players, and adding them to a trio of really talented prep players in Kinziger, Pence and Walker is a hell of a lot better position than this program was in last March. That's not blind faith. It's simply understanding talent. Kinziger and Pence are day one contributors. I think Walker has the skillset to be the best of the bunch down the road. If he can find three more players like LK, DB and MP in the portal, then you have something to build on. I imagine next year's squad will be much deeper than this one. This is a transition year. Simple as that.

Patience is difficult. If the results are the same next February, then I think your concern is warranted.

 

[Adunk33]

Yes, ISU needs a good refrigerator, no doubt. But after watching two games in person and the rest on a 74 inch TV ISU really needs a 6’2” to 6’6” point guard. Not a shooting guard, not a point forward, not a stretch wing, but a true point guard. Someone who was a point guard on the 5th grade team. I could go with a 6 foot point guard if he has a 6-5 shooter that is a lock down defender alongside. I understand I am asking for a lot but look in the past at our really great teams and they all had an outstanding floor general.

Committed - John Kinziger, 5-10, PG, De Pere, WI

https://www.verbalcommits.com/players/john-kinziger

www.redbirdfan.net

Committed - Ty Pence, 6-4/180, SG, St. Joseph, IL

https://www.verbalcommits.com/players/ty-pence

www.redbirdfan.net

 

[SgtHulka]

We just keep turning corners. Next time we turn towards good we need to stop there. Sad

 

[SlackBooDom]

Ample time to recruit? I completely disagree with this. The three player class of prep players in this year's class are all kids that committed in July before their senior year. What prep players were available in March that were going to help? None.

The staff did a decent job finding some talent in the portal, but the task to build a roster simply from the portal and returning players from the Muller era was next to impossible at that point of the year, IMO. Returning the current core, which is essentially three players, and adding them to a trio of really talented prep players in Kinziger, Pence and Walker is a hell of a lot better position than this program was in last March. That's not blind faith. It's simply understanding talent. Kinziger and Pence are day one contributors. I think Walker has the skillset to be the best of the bunch down the road. If he can find three more players like LK, DB and MP in the portal, then you have something to build on. I imagine next year's squad will be much deeper than this one. This is a transition year. Simple as that.

Patience is difficult. If the results are the same next February, then I think your concern is warranted.

What makes you say this? Recruiting rankings? Have you seen them play in person? There are ten freshmen total in the MVC playing 50% of their team's minutes. Enright, Avila, Tyson, Gillespie, Duax, Campbell, Wolf are contributing to teams in the upper half of the league. It isn't like we are in a world where freshmen walk into the league in major roles for upper-half teams. How did we manage to find 2-3 in the same recruiting class?

 

[Adunk33]

For clarification on my original point, I'm not at all down on Pedon. I do think there are valid concerns we've seen almost no improvement as the year has gone on. There seems to be some line of thinking that it doesn't matter and this is a lost year regardless. I push back on that and ask why. Again, the guy got introduced to the team an hour after the season ended. He had ample time to recruit. He knew the situation when he accepted the job. I don't understand the sentiment of, well he can't run his offense and he's missing a point guard and a post player so oh well! I understand the core of this team CAN return, but if you're returning the core of a 6-win MVC team is that worth being excited about? For the most part, the core coming back has played 70 or more college basketball games in their career. There's enough of a sample there to say that it's likely they are what they are and aren't going to make some extraordinary leap. I find the line between blind faith and skeptical optimism pretty thin in here. Asking questions about where things are headed and what we are building isn't the same as not believing in the coach.

Probably also an important reminder he was still a FT assistant at Ohio State and put trust in a guy to be an assistant that took advantage of it. He's currently stretched thin running the whole program, leading recruiting efforts, teaching Dak how to be an OC, etc. I think another viable assistant could really allow Pedon to get stronger as an in-game coach.

There have been things working against Coach P that deserve mention. One thing I was thinking about yesterday was pre-season talk. Pedon was very high on Kotov. I believe Pedon initially thought in the spring AK would be THE guy he could play through in the paint. I think he felt better about what Schmitt and Andrews then too. That obviously wasn't the case, so through the Portal he brought in a stretch big that in a perfect world, would spell Liam when he needed a breather. I think if all went as planned back in the Spring, the starting lineup would probably look something like Darius, Malachi, Seneca, Liam, Kotov.

Agree with all who say Schmitt deserves more PT. His p&r game with DB during the Belmont game was really good and he does plant his feet and set the screen. He's probably a bit slow defensively but I feel like the Birds get better looks on O when he is out there.

 

[DaveBird10]

Last night was hard, I hate losing to Bradley but I am still confident with coach Pedon and what he's building. He consistently says I don't want a flash in the pan success (a la 2017) I want to build a roster who can consistently compete.
I thought nerves played a key in last night, with so many missed layups and opportunities last night I was hoping we could get a bucket and keep it within range but we couldn't. Was hoping for a timeout or something to hold it together but we never got it. Timeouts in situations like that is where I think Pedon needs to improve. I know he has said the whole is greater than the sum of its parts where H contributed vs SIUE, Kotov vs SIU and other good minutes from people but we haven't gotten that consistency from them and then Pedon is searching like he was last night for a guy to be successful. I wish we would just go with DB getting the majority of the bench minutes, Schmitt and whoever so they can grow and maybe get that consistency because just hoping to get it isnt working.

I brought a friend with me to the game last night who coaches HS basketball and has been around it for a long time (his dad has over 600 career wins in HS) he said to me last night that some of the sets and plays ISU runs is really impressive and really good they just couldn't finish. I said responded and said " I like the core but some many are playing out of position." I am looking forward to the the 3 freshman coming in because he haven't had that in years. We both agreed with whoever else leaves and the kids coming in if you get a juco/transfer point to share the point guard duties with Kinziger that then allows Mal to play off of the ball. You get a big who can run play in the paint and defend then you are able to play Liam and Kendall at the forward more and that in return gives us more depth. It takes time but its coming, trust the process.

 

[Manchester Matt]

What makes you say this? Recruiting rankings? Have you seen them play in person? There are ten freshmen total in the MVC playing 50% of their team's minutes. Enright, Avila, Tyson, Gillespie, Duax, Campbell, Wolf are contributing to teams in the upper half of the league. It isn't like we are in a world where freshmen walk into the league in major roles for upper-half teams. How did we manage to find 2-3 in the same recruiting class?

I've seen Pence play in person. He's an absolute stud. There are plenty of videos and clips on the other two. Have you seen them? You're pretty quick to dismiss them.

 

[ScoreboardDotRace]

I may be in the minority here, but I’m not hitching my wagon to the 3 freshman coming in. I think that’s a bold move with the season the birds have had. I really like them, and do think they could be really good, but I’m not planning on them as day 1.

I’m using whatever is open to ‘recruit over’ everyone, including the freshmen coming in. This team has great pieces and players that can play a role, but they need some difference makers who have proven it at the college level.

Pedon and co. Definitely running short handed, hopefully that gets sorted out soon because this off-season and portal cycle is going to be key.

 

[SlackBooDom]

I've seen Pence play in person. He's an absolute stud. There are plenty of videos and clips on the other two. Have you seen them? You're pretty quick to dismiss them.

I think both are All-MVC level players and will greatly benefit from the lack of talent in the program allowing them to play a much bigger role than they are ready for. I am bullish on both. I'm more realistic in using data to project out where this program can go and what it should be. The likelihood we found two of the best freshmen in the league who are ready for MVC play day one seems to be offset by using actual data and not video clips.

 

[SlackBooDom]

The recruiting class shows signs of being the best we've seen in a long, long time.
Kinzinger=The best player (a true point) on the best team in the state of Wisconsin.
Pence= A stud athlete with a 92 exit velocity who caught 53 passes for 1100 yds in his only year playing football. Basketball is his number 1 and watching him on youtube has me really excited.
Walker = A huge kid with a soft touch who has shown the gumption to lose a shit ton of weight during the season.
I don't know how you can look at this class (so far) and not be optimistic about this coach and the direction in which the program could finally be headed.

Once again... there is a difference between asking questions and not being optimistic or questioning things. Every single point I've made has been backed up by supporting data and evidence instead of just saying - they will contribute day one because I liked their highlights on Youtube. Outliers happen. Being realistic about where ISU's program is and where it will be next year doesn't mean I don't support the program.

 

[Manchester Matt]

What makes you say this? Recruiting rankings? Have you seen them play in person? There are ten freshmen total in the MVC playing 50% of their team's minutes. Enright, Avila, Tyson, Gillespie, Duax, Campbell, Wolf are contributing to teams in the upper half of the league. It isn't like we are in a world where freshmen walk into the league in major roles for upper-half teams. How did we manage to find 2-3 in the same recruiting class?

Look at the top players on the three top teams in the league. How many of those guys played meaningful roles as freshman on their team?

SIU? Marcus Domask was a second-team all league player, the NOY and FOY. Lance Jones averaged 9.3 points and 2.5 assists. Xavier Johnson started 18 games in his freshman season at George Mason.

Bradley? Rienk Mast averaged 8.6 points and 5.8 rebounds. Ja'Shon Henry averaged 6.8 points and 3.5 rebounds in Bradley's last 12 games of his freshman season. They went 9-3 in those after starting 10-11.

Drake? DeVries goes without saying. Roman Penn averaged 9.8 points and 4.7 assists in his freshman season at Siena. DJ Wilkins was an all MVC Freshman team member after averaging 11 points.

There are many others on other teams in the league. Let's not act like freshmen contributing immediately is a foreign thing in this league.

 

[SlackBooDom]

Look at the top players on the three top teams in the league. How many of those guys played meaningful roles as freshman on their team?

SIU? Marcus Domask was a second-team all league player, the NOY and FOY. Lance Jones averaged 9.3 points and 2.5 assists. Xavier Johnson started 18 games in his freshman season at George Mason.

Bradley? Rienk Mast averaged 8.6 points and 5.8 rebounds. Ja'Shon Henry averaged 6.8 points and 3.5 rebounds in Bradley's last 12 games of his freshman season. They went 9-3 in those after starting 10-11.

Drake? DeVries goes without saying. Roman Penn averaged 9.8 points and 4.7 assists in his freshman season at Siena. DJ Wilkins was an all MVC Freshman team member after averaging 11 points.

There are many others on other teams in the league. Let's not act like freshmen contributing immediately is a foreign thing in this league.

I totally get what you're saying. The way to build a program is through four-year players. Pence and Kinzinger, who I've seen both play, have serious potential to be all-MVC level players. Full stop. The staff is recruiting the right players from the right area on winning teams. I believe that. Can we keep them from the Power 5 level if they're good? I hope so.

All I'm saying is, it's not realistic to expect us to make a big jump next year because of a freshmen class. It rarely, if ever, happens in the MVC. It isn't supported by any evidence to expect us to be in the top half of the league because of two kids who are still in high school. That's an okay thing to believe while also thinking things are on the right track.

 

[BirdGrad2011]

I totally get what you're saying. The way to build a program is through four-year players. Pence and Kinzinger, who I've seen both play, have serious potential to be all-MVC level players. Full stop. The staff is recruiting the right players from the right area on winning teams. I believe that. Can we keep them from the Power 5 level if they're good? I hope so.

All I'm saying is, it's not realistic to expect us to make a big jump next year because of a freshmen class. It rarely, if ever, happens in the MVC. It isn't supported by any evidence to expect us to be in the top half of the league because of two kids who are still in high school. That's an okay thing to believe while also thinking things are on the right track.

I would expect improvement but not contending. Look at area schools that have rebuilt recently. Brian Wardle won 5 games year 1 then I believe 12 year 2. Brad Underwood won 14 then 12. Year 3 is where the jump usually comes. Transfer portal is new and can help, but it’s unrealistic to expect drastic and overnight turnaround.

 

[schoolsportsfan]

Disagree, Matthew Hein would be upgrade to every single player on this team.

It seems as if though every time we get a big student crowd at home we come out incredibly timid and full of nerves. There were some shots in that first 10 minutes that you just don’t see us missing ever. Last night was one of those nights walking out of the arena where it’s just plain embarrassing to admit you are attending these games, Bradley was on every loose ball and Wardle was still hounding them after the under 8 and a 20+ lead for the majority of it. I have yet to see any fire from Pedon or even a tech in a last ditch effort to motivate the guys. There were several chances for that last night and none taken.

For those optimistic about St. Louis a week ago, you clearly have your answer on what this team is capable of in St. Louis by this point. I expect next year to be much different and still have complete faith in Coach Pedon though.

There is no way Matt Hein is an upgrade to every single player on this team. Matt Hein was not good. He single handily just about allowed SIU back in the game in a semifinal game in St Louis. He was a Redbird. I will support him for that reason. But, he probably would not have been a Redbird if it weren’t for Ndiaye 1.0

 

[ScoreboardDotRace]

If the Redbirds take a similar path as Indiana State last year to this year I’d be happy with that. Finishing 4 to 7 range with a team that has a chance in March.

They went year 1 to year 2 under a new coach (granted had HC experience) from something like 4-14 last year to currently sitting 10-5 and in 4th place in the league. Yes, they’ve got a freshman contributing and I hope at least 1 of the 3 can for us, but a majority is on guys who are seasoned.

That’s what I’d call a win from this year to next in my eyes. I think it can be done.

 

[Adunk33]

If the Redbirds take a similar path as Indiana State last year to this year I’d be happy with that. Finishing 4 to 7 range with a team that has a chance in March.

They went year 1 to year 2 under a new coach (granted had HC experience) from something like 4-14 last year to currently sitting 10-5 and in 4th place in the league. Yes, they’ve got a freshman contributing and I hope at least 1 of the 3 can for us, but a majority is on guys who are seasoned.

That’s what I’d call a win from this year to next in my eyes. I think it can be done.

This has been my approach as well. This year is this year. Establish a core and culture moving forward. Next year, compete for middle of the pack 4-6. By '24-'25 should be competing for the top of the league.

 

[Redbird222]

 

[Redbird222]