Bradley - 02/08/2023 - 7:00 PM - ESPN+

[SlackBooDom]

I think they have to have at least 3 noticeable solid wins in the portal/juco this off-season and fills holes with improvement. If they’re proven winners at their prior stops, that is a major plus.

I Feel like establishing that winning (not just competitive close losses) culture, and being in the mix down the stretch next year is very key. Need to go into year 3 expecting to compete for a top 4 or else you risk losing key guys and starting all over.

Pedon knows it, I think he can execute on it.

The consensus is that we need a post and a point guard. We also want them to be proven winners. They need to make an impact from day one.

Where exactly are we finding that in the portal and why is that type of player coming to ISU? Post and point guard are the most sought-after position annually. Why us?

 

[MadBird]

I think we’ll see how it shakes out next year. We really don’t know what they’re capable of at this point. Nobody thought a late spring signing would be a starter from day one and go on to be a 4-yr starter, score well over 1000 pts, be named 2-time DPOY, and be all-conference player. But that’s what Dan Muller did.

Now I’m not saying I expect any of our incoming recruits to do this . . . But I think we tend to have pre-conceived ideas for how a player is going to work out, even though we don’t really know their hearts, competitive spirit, or work-ethic. We over- or underestimate a kid based on his size, body type, school size, star-rating, etc. We also don’t watch every game to see the ‘hidden’ things not shown in highlight videos.

Let’s allow the kids to get here and show the coaches what they can do, rather than set expectations.

Yeah, you never know - everybody's different. Play it back the other way - just because a kid is from a big school is no guarantee he's gonna help.

FWIW -two "comparisons" to kids from similar size schools to St. Joe-Ogden (about 450 students) and St. Charles Prep (about 600+). And of course Kinzinger's school is well over 1000 and ranked #1 in Wisconsin's biggest class. SIU has Marcus Domask from Waupun HS in Wisconsin (coincidentally same school as our Abbie Alsma, who's getting some PT for the women's team). Domask averaged 13+ ppg freshman year, won all kinds of recognition (fresh of the week, month, year, All-America, etc,), well you know how he turned out. Wisconsin has freshman Connor Essegian, from Central Noble HS near Ft. Wayne IN - starting now, playing more, scoring 11+ ppg. Just food for thought - it can be done.

But Bird Friend hit it on the head - we have no idea how these kids are gonna be able to come in and play. Wait and see. Can't judge now, can't judge how Pedon can recruit, etc. Hang in there friends!!

 

[ScoreboardDotRace]

The consensus is that we need a post and a point guard. We also want them to be proven winners. They need to make an impact from day one.

Where exactly are we finding that in the portal and why is that type of player coming to ISU? Post and point guard are the most sought-after position annually. Why us?

That’s Pedon’s job. Even though I’m sure the ‘why us’ was hypothetical and not for me to answer.

But even proven winners, I said is a plus. I don’t need them to come from national championship or final 4 teams either, but winning teams is good l. Like Malachi came from a winning program..

 

[Popsto4]

I think we’ll see how it shakes out next year. We really don’t know what they’re capable of at this point. Nobody thought a late spring signing would be a starter from day one and go on to be a 4-yr starter, score well over 1000 pts, be named 2-time DPOY, and be all-conference player. But that’s what Dan Muller did.

Now I’m not saying I expect any of our incoming recruits to do this . . . But I think we tend to have pre-conceived ideas for how a player is going to work out, even though we don’t really know their hearts, competitive spirit, or work-ethic. We over- or underestimate a kid based on his size, body type, school size, star-rating, etc. We also don’t watch every game to see the ‘hidden’ things not shown in highlight videos.

Let’s allow the kids to get here and show the coaches what they can do, rather than set expectations.

Expectations are a crazy thing. The kid himself have more to say about them anywaymy

The consensus is that we need a post and a point guard. We also want them to be proven winners. They need to make an impact from day one.

Where exactly are we finding that in the portal and why is that type of player coming to ISU? Post and point guard are the most sought-after position annually. Why us?

I always say you can find a really good 3* Player even though I don’t put much stock into rankings unless they’re a 5* Recruit. The best way to find those immediate impact players is to go after the 3* Recruits. The 4 and 5* Recruits are usually fought over leaving room to miss out on the 3’s. There are some kids who want to build something special at the next level. The 4 and 5’s have there eyes set on The League from the get go.

 

[Redbird222]

Reasons why we will be better next year than this year

1. The coaching staff
A. Pedon has a year under his belt as a head coach
B. The staff has a year working together ... this is important for knowing roles and communicating openly with each other
C. We fill an assistant coach's position that has been essentially vacant the ENTIRE season
D. The coaches understand the talent and capabilities of returning players .... this is Huge
2. Returning players (assumption MP, DB, KL, LK, LM, and 1 - 2 more players
A. A core of players know the system. This should put us ahead from the start plus they can help new players adjust
B. A core of players return with significant playing time. They were not just spectators and they have begun to learn how to play with each other.
C. They are upperclassmen and should be able to provide leadership
3. Players lost (assumption SK, CS, and 2 to 4 players with minimal playing time)
A. Colton has been hurt a significant part of the year so you are essentially replacing Knight and erratic minutes from the rest.
B. Knight's strongest contributions to be repalced are penetration, ability to score in paint, and defensive rebounding.
4. New players
A. 3 Freshman signed which appear to have some abilities where current team has known deficiencies
B. Add 2 to 4 more transfers between JUCO and portal ... maybe another Freshman if 3 additional transfers. You build depth and continue to address needs that the staff should know especially after working with the talent for a year
C. 5 to 7 new faces that essentially replace Knight and Sandage. You have enough horses in the race and you should be able to replace and build on those lost minutes
D. Pedon and staff brought in 6 new players in 2022 and to me demonstrated that they could find players on the portal that could contribute immediately. If they add 2 to 4 additional players through the transfer faces in 2023, I am am feeling confident they can hit on another 1 or 2
E. Since the staff understands the returning talent and capabilities better in March of 2023 vs March of 2022, they can focus efforts bringing in the right pieces, not just from a cultural standpoint which was the primary focus, but from skills and talent standpoint

Roster management is the key to improving this off season. Pedon needs to retain the right players and also NEEDS enough roster turnover from players that didn't contribute significantly in games. I feel if Pedon is bringing in 5 to 7 new players he should be able to fill some of the missing pieces and add depth.

One of issue with Mullers teams (especially post 2017) was retention of core players. We were constantly replacing key minutes from players that left early. These players seem committed to Pedon so the hope is he will be better at keeping the right players. We will soon find out

 

[Hamdonger]

Hey222, maybe you can slide into that assistant role...

 

[Redbird222]

Hey222, maybe you can slide into that assistant role...

That would be Pedon's first major mistake

 

[RedbirdSoxFan]

Reasons why we will be better next year than this year

1. The coaching staff
A. Pedon has a year under his belt as a head coach
B. The staff has a year working together ... this is important for knowing roles and communicating openly with each other
C. We fill an assistant coach's position that has been essentially vacant the ENTIRE season
D. The coaches understand the talent and capabilities of returning players .... this is Huge
2. Returning players (assumption MP, DB, KL, LK, LM, and 1 - 2 more players
A. A core of players know the system. This should put us ahead from the start plus they can help new players adjust
B. A core of players return with significant playing time. They were not just spectators and they have begun to learn how to play with each other.
C. They are upperclassmen and should be able to provide leadership
3. Players lost (assumption SK, CS, and 2 to 4 players with minimal playing time)
A. Colton has been hurt a significant part of the year so you are essentially replacing Knight and erratic minutes from the rest.
B. Knight's strongest contributions to be repalced are penetration, ability to score in paint, and defensive rebounding.
4. New players
A. 3 Freshman signed which appear to have some abilities where current team has known deficiencies
B. Add 2 to 4 more transfers between JUCO and portal ... maybe another Freshman if 3 additional transfers. You build depth and continue to address needs that the staff should know especially after working with the talent for a year
C. 5 to 7 new faces that essentially replace Knight and Sandage. You have enough horses in the race and you should be able to replace and build on those lost minutes
D. Pedon and staff brought in 6 new players in 2022 and to me demonstrated that they could find players on the portal that could contribute immediately. If they add 2 to 4 additional players through the transfer faces in 2023, I am am feeling confident they can hit on another 1 or 2
E. Since the staff understands the returning talent and capabilities better in March of 2023 vs March of 2022, they can focus efforts bringing in the right pieces, not just from a cultural standpoint which was the primary focus, but from skills and talent standpoint

Roster management is the key to improving this off season. Pedon needs to retain the right players and also NEEDS enough roster turnover from players that didn't contribute significantly in games. I feel if Pedon is bringing in 5 to 7 new players he should be able to fill some of the missing pieces and add depth.

One of issue with Mullers teams (especially post 2017) was retention of core players. We were constantly replacing key minutes from players that left early. These players seem committed to Pedon so the hope is he will be better at keeping the right players. We will soon find out

Just curious, who were the key players Muller lost, and why did they leave?

 

[Aggie]

You mention one of my concerns moving forward. ISU losses one to two somewhat key players we were looking to retain. Hope that does not happen but the portal is the portal.

 

[ISU86]

You mention one of my concerns moving forward. ISU losses one to two somewhat key players we were looking to retain. Hope that does not happen but the portal is the portal.

and NIL is NIL

 

[Redbird222]

Just curious, who were the key players Muller lost, and why did they leave?

2013
Johnny Hill started 26 games 2 years eligibility
Ekey started 18 games avg 23 min 1 yr
Threloff played 21 games 2 years
Upshaw played 19 games 1 year
Bryant Allen started 30 games 1 year left dismissed from team

2014
Nick Zeisloft started 30 games 2 years eligibility
ZACH lofton started 13 games played 31 avg 23 min 2 years eligibility
Middlebrook started first 4 games and dismissed - 2 additional years
Kaza Keane - played 33 games - 2 years
Samuel - 26 games 11 minutes 2 years

2015
Reggie Lynch started 30 games 2 years
Ransom played 25 games avg 9 min 1 year eligibility

2016
Barnyard started 9 games 30 games 20 min 1 yr eligibility
Griffin quit after 16 games started 4 as freshman

2017
McIntosch starter 29 games 1 yr eligibility
Hawkins starter 35 games 1 yr eligibility
Clayton played 35 games avg 25 min 1 yr eligibility

2018
N'Diaye started 15 games avg 18 min
Madison Willams started 27 games lost to injury 2 years eligibility
Elijah Clarance played 21 games after injury expected PG starter next year. Went pro. 3 years eligibility

2019
Jefferson 21 games 23 minutes played 2 more years
Gassman 26 games 2 starts 15 minutes 2 years
Matt Hein 18 games 15 minutes 1 year

2020
Idowu 30 games 14 starts 2 years
Chastain 19 games 4 starts lost to injury could have played w more years
Bruniga 15 games 2 starts lost to injury could have played 3 more years

2021
Horne started 21 of 25 games can play 3 years more
Keith Fisher started 26 of 30 games in 2020 opted out of COVId 1 more year
Mahorcic started 16 of 22 games 2 more years
Boyd played all 24 games avg 16 minutes 2 more years


Not listing last year's key transfers because he was let go.

Obviously there are lots of players here and of varying talent. They left for a variety of reasons including being dismissed but for the most part they all play significant minutes and had additional years of eligibility. There were additional players that really didn't play

I don't really care the reason why and don't want to get into who is responsible because each case was different. The one thing I am confident is that the loss of this many players and this many minutes contributed to our inconsistencies.

 

[isuquinndog]

Kaza Keane and Elijah Clarance really hurt

 

[BirdGrad2011]

Just looking at that list the talent level really dropped off.

 

[DaveBird10]

It all started with the 2018-2019 season. Clarance left, N'Diaye transferred, Williams couldn't play and Taylor sat out the year. The loss of talent with 2 games that you lost by half court shots really really hurt.

 

[CB2K]

McIntosh, Hawkins, Clayton was disappointing as well. I always thought that putting those three seniors with Fayne, Malik, Key, Copeland, Chastain and others would have been a very good team.

 

[BirdGrad2011]

I think the worst thing Dan ever did was put all his eggs in the Yarbrough basket. Talent like none other but he could not stay out of trouble off the court and never got publicly punished. Allegedly hit a student with his car (details sketchy) and never sat out, allegedly pushed a woman down stairs and never sat out. Allegedly stole a phone during his transfer sit out year and never missed an eligible game. I get he’s a legacy and was uber talented, but we became a joke of the MVC for a while under Muller and the off court antics.

 

[RedbirdSoxFan]

It all started with the 2018-2019 season. Clarance left, N'Diaye transferred, Williams couldn't play and Taylor sat out the year. The loss of talent with 2 games that you lost by half court shots really really hurt.

Nic Moore & Elijah Clarance really hurt because it left us without a Point Guard.
Marcus Arnold & Reggie Lynch hurt because it left us without a Center.

 

[RedbirdSoxFan]

I think the worst thing Dan ever did was put all his eggs in the Yarbrough basket. Talent like none other but he could not stay out of trouble off the court and never got publicly punished. Allegedly hit a student with his car (details sketchy) and never sat out, allegedly pushed a woman down stairs and never sat out. Allegedly stole a phone during his transfer sit out year and never missed an eligible game. I get he’s a legacy and was uber talented, but we became a joke of the MVC for a while under Muller and the off court antics.

I really believe that if the Redbirds would have made the Tournament in 2017 and won a couple games, Dan would probably have been gone.

 

[BirdGrad2011]

I really believe that if the Redbirds would have made the Tournament in 2017 and won a couple games, Dan would probably have been gone.

I mean he did flirt with Dayton. Maybe he knew he wasn’t going to be able to sustain it?

 

[RedbirdSoxFan]

I mean he did flirt with Dayton. Maybe he knew he wasn’t going to be able to sustain it?

Do you know if he was offered, or did he just inquire with Dayton AD about the possibility of coaching @ Dayton?