Bradley - 02/08/2023 - 7:00 PM - ESPN+

SlackBooDom

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According to Ken Pom, Ohio state is the 33rd best team in the country with an 11-12 record, and has won 1 game this calendar year. Nebraska is ahead of them in the big ten standings. I like Oliver with basketball reference more as far as metrics.
Well, I guess I'll just have to take your word that you're smarter than analytics. Maybe Pedon should reach out about the open assistant position? They've won two games this calendar year. Might want to brush up on dates before hitting the road recruiting.
 

Redbirdfan06

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Well, I guess I'll just have to take your word that you're smarter than analytics. Maybe Pedon should reach out about the open assistant position? They've won two games this calendar year. Might want to brush up on dates before hitting the road recruiting.
Last I checked it was 4.
 

Reggie Redbird

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Weren’t we selling Bradley game tickets for $7.40? That’s less than a women’s game (it probably should be, based on which team is on the ten-game win streak).

But we’re not going to finish paying off Muller and Barb Smith with deals like that.
$7.40 was upper bowl, if I’m not mistaken. So if you figure $15-20 for lower bowl, another 100 fans is a nice chunk of change. Both are paid off, but the reserve funds any/all the $1.25 million (combinEd) came from need to be repaid.
 

schoolsportsfan

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Weren’t we selling Bradley game tickets for $7.40? That’s less than a women’s game (it probably should be, based on which team is on the ten-game win streak).

But we’re not going to finish paying off Muller and Barb Smith with deals like that.
Barb Smith???? Thank God she’s gone.
 

DWRedbird

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Maybe its that he's playing the guys he wants to keep. 🤷 The end of the bench are all Muller guys who stayed. He plays walkon guards more than the scholarship posts, rewarding their skin in the game. Great guys to have hanging around at practice

He needs to develop a base he can work with consistently IMHO. And he's starting with his guys, Mayor McCheese and Lewis. Losing players to the portal is a given, but i pray the days of 7 moving on year after year are over. If he can get to where we have 7 or 8 returnees each year (barring the odd 4-5 seniors years 😂😂😂) we can maybe start moving the program forward.

But, if he is only playing the guys he wants to stay for next year, why not run the offense you want to run through them, so that they already have it down going into the next season? Don't want to play the guys you thought would be your post anchor, np, post up K Lew or Knight, and run the offense you want to run. Let the defense react to it and then adjust as needed. I don't care that he isn't playing those guys or how much he plays them, I'd just like him to run what he wants to run, because right now this mish mash thing we are currently running isn't working and does nothing to develop for the future.
 

dpdoughbird06

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$7.40 was upper bowl, if I’m not mistaken. So if you figure $15-20 for lower bowl, another 100 fans is a nice chunk of change. Both are paid off, but the reserve funds any/all the $1.25 million (combinEd) came from need to be repaid.
However you do the accounting, the bigger issue is probably at what point the donor class asks themselves how much they prize their lower bowl view, versus buying the best view in the house (in my opinion) in Section 238/Formerly TT for a fraction of the cost.

Many also pay a premium for Legends Room access for mediocre Sudexo faire and halftime ice cream - which I’ll admit is a great idea.

There will always be a subset of fans who donate because they have the means and love to unconditionally support Redbird Basketball.

But I know many other STHs who bristle every time the donation requirement for their seats increases while individual game tickets sell at a discount every time we reach gameday and realize the arena is nowhere close to full.
 

SlackBooDom

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However you do the accounting, the bigger issue is probably at what point the donor class asks themselves how much they prize their lower bowl view, versus buying the best view in the house (in my opinion) in Section 238/Formerly TT for a fraction of the cost.

Many also pay a premium for Legends Room access for mediocre Sudexo faire and halftime ice cream - which I’ll admit is a great idea.

There will always be a subset of fans who donate because they have the means and love to unconditionally support Redbird Basketball.

But I know many other STHs who bristle every time the donation requirement for their seats increases while individual game tickets sell at a discount every time we reach gameday and realize the arena is nowhere close to full.
Agree. I've heard from people over the years who have dropped their donation for this exact reason. When they switched everything around last year I asked the ticket office about some of this and was told we have the fewest season ticket holders we've ever had. I'm not sure tweeting promo codes for anyone and everyone and visiting teams to use at a steep discount is the best business practice. It would be like continually saying you have $3 calzones because you panic - why would someone buy a full price calzone later? They'd just wait for the $3. With the combination of not printing tickets and misprinting and increasing donations and discounting tickets it feels like just admitting nothing works or everything works or we just don't really know what to do.
 

Redbird28

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You already used the incorrect metrics once, but again to be as clear as possible, here’s my point. They didn’t struggle to create an identity. Bradley had a top 130 defense on KenPom Wardle’s first year. It’s dipped below that one time. That’s an identity. Underwood had a top 86 defense his first year. It’s never dipped below that. That’s an identity. You know that’s their identity and to trust in the process because they’d done it before at other schools. The identity is set in year one you’re going to be an elite defensive team and when you have the players it’s going to bring success. It worked for them at previous stops.

My question to you because you just keep asking me things - what is our year one identity you see in place that we are going to move forward and build on?

I'm not using metrics to gauge this particular team and provide a response to this question, but my eyes tell me that the identity that is being preached more than anything we've seen in the past few years is effort and competing for the full 40. What we've seen for the majority of the season has been an emphasis on playing hard from start to stop. Sure, we've gotten our clocks cleaned in some games, but it feels like that's because we don't have the Jimmy's and Joe's more so than the X's and O's. The full on subs of walk-ons at Belmont who then stuck in the game the remainder of the time felt to me like the primary guys weren't playing with the effort that's expected of them and Pedon was sending a message. You can certainly build on instilling this expectation going forward and as the guys we truly need to compete to be a top half of the conference team come in to the roster then the rest can be put into place schematically and we can start worrying about measuring statistics.
 

DaveBird10

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The scenario is they had proven track records as Division I head coaches. That one feels pretty clear.
So Wardle had a great track record as a head coach at Green Bay? In 5 seasons he made a CBI and 2 NIT appearances and one of those appearances he got beat by Dan Muller and ISU. AT Bradley in his 8th year he is finally finishing in the top 4 of the conference for the 2nd time and has a career record at Bradley of 127-123. He got hot for 1 weekend, if not for that what would he be? 4 games over .500 in 8 years doesn't speak great coaching record. He's still under .500 in MVC games being 66-74.
 

SlackBooDom

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So Wardle had a great track record as a head coach at Green Bay? In 5 seasons he made a CBI and 2 NIT appearances and one of those appearances he got beat by Dan Muller and ISU. AT Bradley in his 8th year he is finally finishing in the top 4 of the conference for the 2nd time and has a career record at Bradley of 127-123. He got hot for 1 weekend, if not for that what would he be? 4 games over .500 in 8 years doesn't speak great coaching record. He's still under .500 in MVC games being 66-74.
Not sure when I used the word "great" for track record. I'm pretty confident I used the word "proven" which is a drastic difference. Based on resource allocation and budget, Green Bay is one of the worst head coaching jobs in the Midwest and in the Horizon League. Brian Wardle had more wins in consecutive seasons than any coach has had there in the last 20 years. I would say that is proven. You can dismiss making the NIT, but it is something we as a program struggle to do annually. If you'd like to remove making the NCAA tournament in back-to-back years to measure his success at Bradley, that is how you're viewing it. If not for the NCAA tournaments, you're right. He is way worse. But... they happened. "Getting hot for one weekend" is one way of framing it. It's just how you view it. I view it differently. That's okay.
 

SgtHulka

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But, if he is only playing the guys he wants to stay for next year, why not run the offense you want to run through them, so that they already have it down going into the next season? Don't want to play the guys you thought would be your post anchor, np, post up K Lew or Knight, and run the offense you want to run. Let the defense react to it and then adjust as needed. I don't care that he isn't playing those guys or how much he plays them, I'd just like him to run what he wants to run, because right now this mish mash thing we are currently running isn't working and does nothing to develop for the future.
Maybe he is running what he wants, or trying to. 🤷 I've never asked him what he wants. Coach speak doesn't tend to lend to facts very often when in front of a microphone. "Were going to play fast" is a story I've heard from coaches that gave us slow paced play. But I'm going to assume he's not winging it and is trying to execute a plan. People tend to think coaches are geniuses or idiots, I tend to look from middle ground most times. What we are running seems to work well some games, and like crap others. Execution lacks more in the games it doesn't. Most of the starters look like guys who will be named to an All Team one night and disappear the next. And generally our lack of a true PG allows defenses to throw us off what we plan to do if they pressure the perimeter. Every guard on the team plus Kazooski has had a shot at running the point at some time during the first several games, then he settled in on best available.
 

jwa123

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Leave it to Coach for a breakdown. Brickers you should be on TV cause in a 20 second spill you laid it out. That's exactly what happens. We frequently double-whammy it by the slow enter into offense...we back out...4 sweet 'lil 'Birds hanging on perimeter perch...sometimes 5 FT line beyond. All of which, at this point, is no surprise to our opponents. Surprise us all by grabbing consecutive wins these last 2 weeks, boys.👊
This is why I suggested Brick come back for the possible ass’t coaching position. However, I am riding a dead horse. Brick prefers warm weather and sand traps over cold snowy and barren this time of year cornfields.

Go figure.
 

Hamdonger

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This is why I suggested Brick come back for the possible ass’t coaching position. However, I am riding a dead horse. Brick prefers warm weather and sand traps over cold snowy and barren this time of year cornfields.

Go figure.
Dude sounds like a weirdie.
 
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Popsto4

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Dave I can tell you for fact that the staff is expecting JohnnyK to be a backup at PG his freshman year...not a starter. Now perhaps he continues to get better, surprises us all and grabs that PG spot. To his credit he's had a great HS career.

I like our signees but folks, let me remind you...even to a school like Illinois State...from relatively small schools like SJO (Ty Pence), and De Pere isn't huge...it is a TREMENDOUS jump in organized competition. Tremendous. Yeah yeah yeah summer travel ball and the competition I get it...but put them in a college arena where they are on scholarship to perform, and under constant scrutiny from an intense coaching staff (let alone Redbirdfan posters)...it's a different ballgame. First you have to adjust to playing with your new teammates...then comes an adjustment to live practice...then comes an adjustment to actually playing in the game...at this level. It's a road, man.

I know Ty carries a good rep (and gang I like him) but I'd be surprised if he averaged more than 8 a game for us next year...if that.

Plus you think returnees or experienced transfers are just going to lay down and let these freshman take their slots?? Ideally all 3 come in and change the direction of our program but I don't see these frosh doing it next year. Year 2? Could be!
Honestly I expect Pence to carve out a nitch/minutes before JK. Ty’s size alone will help out on the boards which is needed as well. I think he has a good offensive game but as you say it’s a different monster on this level. I can see see JK spelling Mal or DB at the one sliding Mal over to the 2 spot. Now if he can spell DB at the 1 and leave Mal at the 2 it’s a whole new ball game with Luke or Ty at the 3. It’s gonna be an interesting offseason for sure.
 

Bird Friend

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Honestly I expect Pence to carve out a nitch/minutes before JK. Ty’s size alone will help out on the boards which is needed as well. I think he has a good offensive game but as you say it’s a different monster on this level. I can see see JK spelling Mal or DB at the one sliding Mal over to the 2 spot. Now if he can spell DB at the 1 and leave Mal at the 2 it’s a whole new ball game with Luke or Ty at the 3. It’s gonna be an interesting offseason for sure.
I think we’ll see how it shakes out next year. We really don’t know what they’re capable of at this point. Nobody thought a late spring signing would be a starter from day one and go on to be a 4-yr starter, score well over 1000 pts, be named 2-time DPOY, and be all-conference player. But that’s what Dan Muller did.

Now I’m not saying I expect any of our incoming recruits to do this . . . But I think we tend to have pre-conceived ideas for how a player is going to work out, even though we don’t really know their hearts, competitive spirit, or work-ethic. We over- or underestimate a kid based on his size, body type, school size, star-rating, etc. We also don’t watch every game to see the ‘hidden’ things not shown in highlight videos.

Let’s allow the kids to get here and show the coaches what they can do, rather than set expectations.
 
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Popsto4

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I think we’ll see how it shakes out next year. We really don’t know what they’re capable of at this point. Nobody thought a late spring signing would be a starter from day one and go on to be a 4-yr starter, score well over 1000 pts, be named 2-time DPOY, and be all-conference player. But that’s what Dan Muller did.

Now I’m not saying I expect any of our incoming recruits to do this . . . But I think we tend to have pre-conceived ideas for how a player is going to work out, even though we don’t really know their hearts, competitive spirit, or work-ethic. We over- or underestimate a kid based on his size, body type, school size, star-rating, etc. We also don’t watch every game to see the ‘hidden’ things not shown in highlight videos.

Let’s allow the kids to get here and show the coaches what they can do, rather than set expectations.
Expectations are a crazy thing. The kid himself have more to say about them anyway.
 

Baltimore Bird

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Muller was a great example of a non-heralded player being a great player for ISU. I had low expectations when we recruited Rick Lamb from Illiopolis. Rick scored over 30 ppg his senior year. I ran into Ronnie Jones in the lobby in Peoria that summer ('79) during the State of Illinois 1A all star game. (There were only 2 classes then). Lamb was in the game. Ronnie was very high on Lamb and changed my expectation. Ronnie was correct! It can happen and I think will happen with those JK and Pence. Northern Iowa does it with almost every player.
 

ScoreboardDotRace

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I think they have to have at least 3 noticeable solid wins in the portal/juco this off-season and fills holes with improvement. If they’re proven winners at their prior stops, that is a major plus.

I Feel like establishing that winning (not just competitive close losses) culture, and being in the mix down the stretch next year is very key. Need to go into year 3 expecting to compete for a top 4 or else you risk losing key guys and starting all over.

Pedon knows it, I think he can execute on it.
 

Hamdonger

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I think we’ll see how it shakes out next year. We really don’t know what they’re capable of at this point. Nobody thought a late spring signing would be a starter from day one and go on to be a 4-yr starter, score well over 1000 pts, be named 2-time DPOY, and be all-conference player. But that’s what Dan Muller did.

Now I’m not saying I expect any of our incoming recruits to do this . . . But I think we tend to have pre-conceived ideas for how a player is going to work out, even though we don’t really know their hearts, competitive spirit, or work-ethic. We over- or underestimate a kid based on his size, body type, school size, star-rating, etc. We also don’t watch every game to see the ‘hidden’ things not shown in highlight videos.

Let’s allow the kids to get here and show the coaches what they can do, rather than set expectations.
No doubt, Birdie. Ya gotta give me this, though. This board is notorious for overestimating a newcomer's impact, particularly freshman.
 

Hamdonger

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Some player's games, particularly from smaller schools, do not translate well to the next level. I like our class and their future impact. I'm just not seeing a BIG impact year 1. Not at all. Hope I'm wrong and you peeps tar and feather me. Preferably pink feathers, please.
 
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