At Northern Iowa 1/24

[ricohill]

I've always wondered on here what jobs people work? I don't know many jobs out there that allow you to be terrible and don't fire you.

Also, how do I get a job that has such low expectations that I can get a free ride?

I'd ask the same of you. I work for a Fortune 1000 company and "sucking" isn't enough to fire someone, without gross misconduct. There are Improvement Plans, mentoring, reassignment of duties to do something else. Firing is never the first option for "you aren't doing the job".

Firing someone, even for sucking, takes time for a documentation process to play out at many Fortune 1000 type firms. Essentially to avoid a lawsuit. Requires documented long term suckage, and failure to respond to action plans to address said suckage.

Documentation:

http://barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?link=y&sIndex=28&minusage=0&minGP=0&minORtg=0&mineFG=0&minTS=0&minOR=0&minDR=0&minAst=0&minTO=100&minBlk=0&minStl=0&min2P=0&min3P=0&minFT=0&minftr=0&minht=0&maxht=100&minftm=0&minfta=0&minthreepm=0&minthreepa=0&mintwopm=0&mintwopa=0&sortToggle=0&yvalue=All&cvalue=MVC&tvalue=All&year=2018&minmin=40&c=0&top=351&kw=&start=20171101&end=20180501&ppg=-10

http://www.goredbirds.com/documents/2018/1/24//20180124_Season_Stats.pdf?id=9618

http://www.goredbirds.com/documents/2018/1/24//20180124_Season_Stats_MVC.pdf?id=9619

Also, scholarships are a one year agreement. Don't meet the standards, don't get it renewed.

 

[ISU FAN 1]

I'd ask the same of you. I work for a Fortune 1000 company and "sucking" isn't enough to fire someone, without gross misconduct. There are Improvement Plans, mentoring, reassignment of duties to do something else. Firing is never the first option for "you aren't doing the job".

Firing someone, even for sucking, takes time for a documentation process to play out at many Fortune 1000 type firms. Essentially to avoid a lawsuit. Requires documented long term suckage, and failure to respond to action plans to address said suckage.

Documentation:

http://barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?link=y&sIndex=28&minusage=0&minGP=0&minORtg=0&mineFG=0&minTS=0&minOR=0&minDR=0&minAst=0&minTO=100&minBlk=0&minStl=0&min2P=0&min3P=0&minFT=0&minftr=0&minht=0&maxht=100&minftm=0&minfta=0&minthreepm=0&minthreepa=0&mintwopm=0&mintwopa=0&sortToggle=0&yvalue=All&cvalue=MVC&tvalue=All&year=2018&minmin=40&c=0&top=351&kw=&start=20171101&end=20180501&ppg=-10

http://www.goredbirds.com/documents/2018/1/24//20180124_Season_Stats.pdf?id=9618

http://www.goredbirds.com/documents/2018/1/24//20180124_Season_Stats_MVC.pdf?id=9619

Also, scholarships are a one year agreement. Don't meet the standards, don't get it renewed.

I agree. I was referring to the business world only. Basketball programs are empires, and Dan is King. The decisions are really all his.

 

[ricohill]

Firing someone, even for sucking, takes time for a documentation process to play out at many Fortune 1000 type firms. Essentially to avoid a lawsuit. Requires documented long term suckage, and failure to respond to action plans to address said suckage.

Documentation:

http://barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?link=y&sIndex=28&minusage=0&minGP=0&minORtg=0&mineFG=0&minTS=0&minOR=0&minDR=0&minAst=0&minTO=100&minBlk=0&minStl=0&min2P=0&min3P=0&minFT=0&minftr=0&minht=0&maxht=100&minftm=0&minfta=0&minthreepm=0&minthreepa=0&mintwopm=0&mintwopa=0&sortToggle=0&yvalue=All&cvalue=MVC&tvalue=All&year=2018&minmin=40&c=0&top=351&kw=&start=20171101&end=20180501&ppg=-10

http://www.goredbirds.com/documents/2018/1/24//20180124_Season_Stats.pdf?id=9618

http://www.goredbirds.com/documents/2018/1/24//20180124_Season_Stats_MVC.pdf?id=9619

Also, scholarships are a one year agreement. Don't meet the standards, don't get it renewed.

I agree. I was referring to the business world only. Basketball programs are empires, and Dan is King. The decisions are really all his.

Working in sales, I either hit my numbers or don't eat or don't keep my job. It's the same for Dan, they don't win, he doesn't keep his job. I can't see him keeping guys that are going to take food off his table.

 

[jwa123]

Saw the score last night, knew what I'd read today. There are some real jerks on this board.

Indeed

 

[BTbird]

Still think the beatdown to Indiana St and the subsequent beatdown by UNI in the first 30 mins was the best thing that could have happened to the Redbirds.

They were embarrassed....humiliated....and exposed as a dinged up small group of capable 1on1 players......but not a team.....and only a group of players with major roster limitations.

There is only one way out of this......play like a team. The Big 3 have to do more, but also have to get more out of everyone else.

Everyone has to make the extra pass, draw charges, dive on floors, set screens, block out and not turn the effing ball over 17 times.

I hope you are correct.

I thought something like this happened a couple of years ago. I want to say it was against South Dakota where we played very selfishly and just got a beat down by a team that didn't have the talent we did but they played well as a team. We weren't spectacular that year but I felt like we played much better as a team after that game.

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

The roster has been drastically changed for a variety of reasons, every year that Muller has been here. The problem is they need to drop Hein and Romine, but I don't know how you drop Hein and keep David.

While I agree the roster changes every year, Muller isn't "dropping" people. That's not to say he has not renewed a scholarship due to disciplinary reason, I believe he has. But, he doesn't yank schollies based on performance.

To add to that, my guess is he values the players you (and others) tear down repeatedly, more than you do. That being said, my guess is a couple of players leave in the offseason (not a stretch prediction as it happens every year), I just don't think it will be any of the albatrosses.

The way it’s done is off season meeting, where Dan says “I see zero minutes for you next year”, and then leave it up to the kid. Most will look elsewhere.

That is exactly right and that is the reason for a big percentage of the near 700 annual d1 basketball transfers. That happened to a former KY hooper who is starting at Michigan. The problem is that ISU truly has a couple of players, IMO, that have little to no options. Therefore Muller will actually need to not renew the scolly.

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

1. Muller isn't going to "blow up" the roster. He likely won't ask one guy to leave (if they haven't broken the law or a frequent violator of team rules), let alone 4. If he did, its going to look very, very bad on the recruiting trail. Unless you are a team like Kentucky, Kansas, Duke, or UNC, you need all the positive press you can get on the recruiting trail.

2. I think we lose a couple of guys in the offseason, as we do every year. Probably not any of the 4 you've albatrossed though.

3. While you can get high talent, "meaningful" players during spring recruiting the odds are significantly lower, especially if you want ones that will make an impact the next season. And the odds of landing 4 are miniscule at best (yes I'm saying theres a chance). We landed MM in the spring, but he had to sit out his first year for us because he wasn't academically eligible. In your scenario above, that wouldn't help us next year, and would be more or less like this year, which you would likely complain about.

The roster has been drastically changed for a variety of reasons, every year that Muller has been here. The problem is they need to drop Hein and Romine, but I don't know how you drop Hein and keep David.

Why should Hein be punished for giving it his all and playing the minutes he is asked? I don’t think removing Hein’s scholarship fixes the issues with this team. Why not point the finger at the coaching staff who plays Hein all those minutes and exposes him at times? We replace Heins scholarship with another hustler and we then start complaining about all the minutes that kid is receiving. This team never going to be full of 12 blue chippers, so you need the Matt heins towards the bottom of the roster. It’s the coaches job to put the kids in the situations to make the team most sucessful.

If someone needs to go I would hope Muller starts at the bottom of the roster. Look at this year....you never know when you may need a roster playe (regardless of standing) to actually play valuable minutes so always strengthened the roster both high and low.

 

[DWRedbird]

Documentation:

http://barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?link=y&sIndex=28&minusage=0&minGP=0&minORtg=0&mineFG=0&minTS=0&minOR=0&minDR=0&minAst=0&minTO=100&minBlk=0&minStl=0&min2P=0&min3P=0&minFT=0&minftr=0&minht=0&maxht=100&minftm=0&minfta=0&minthreepm=0&minthreepa=0&mintwopm=0&mintwopa=0&sortToggle=0&yvalue=All&cvalue=MVC&tvalue=All&year=2018&minmin=40&c=0&top=351&kw=&start=20171101&end=20180501&ppg=-10

http://www.goredbirds.com/documents/2018/1/24//20180124_Season_Stats.pdf?id=9618

http://www.goredbirds.com/documents/2018/1/24//20180124_Season_Stats_MVC.pdf?id=9619

Also, scholarships are a one year agreement. Don't meet the standards, don't get it renewed.

I agree. I was referring to the business world only. Basketball programs are empires, and Dan is King. The decisions are really all his.

Working in sales, I either hit my numbers or don't eat or don't keep my job. It's the same for Dan, they don't win, he doesn't keep his job. I can't see him keeping guys that are going to take food off his table.

The problem is that it isn't just one guy that is going to take food off his table. It's an entire team full of guys that would take food off his table. Does he get rid of all of them?

No one guy on our team, top to bottom, has cost us a game this year. Ironically the only thing we seem to do well as a team this year is lose....

 

[BirdsEyeView]

Didn't Muller or Jank not renew a few players scholarships their first year coming into the program? Obviously they have a built in excuse as they didn't recruit them, but I remember that happening here at one point. Was it Threloff because he didn't fit the pace Muller wanted to play?

Regardless, this does happen during end of season evals between coach and player in their office. It also happens across every sport at Illinois State. Coaches will try to create a picture to the player of their future (or lackthereof) with the program.

 

[Brick]

The rest of the season: in my
OPINION: Start David, Fayne, Yarbrough, Madison and Key. Sub Boogie , Taylor and Clarance. Spot use gassman especially against zones. Take Hein out of regular rotation. Play almost exclusively M2M defense and hopefully get better (if we don’t we are in deep trouble) and scrap the zone. Zone gives up way too much penetration and leaves post players open when the ball is reversed.

 

[ricohill]

The rest of the season: in my
OPINION: Start David, Fayne, Yarbrough, Madison and Key. Sub Boogie , Taylor and Clarance. Spot use gassman especially against zones. Take Hein out of regular rotation. Play almost exclusively M2M defense and hopefully get better (if we don’t we are in deep trouble) and scrap the zone. Zone gives up way too much penetration and leaves post players open when the ball is reversed.

I agree almost 100%. The only difference is I would start Tinsley (as much as he has been a disappointment, he matches up better in the MVC) instead of David.

It's hard to matchup to other teams with David and Fayne playing together and they struggle to play on offense together. Plus, it gives you a better rotation with Fayne, David, and Taylor (w Taylor playing 4 and 5).

Muller thinking the same thing....
https://twitter.com/Pg_Benson/status/956638004902350848

 

[Brick]

Great minds think alike!

 

[ricohill]

Great minds think alike!

My fear is that Clarence is left out of the rotation. He needs to play to improve and to see if he can play at this level. This season isn't going anywhere, I'd rather find out for the future.

 

[Brick]

I think he plays!

 

[Reggie Redbird]

Working in sales, I either hit my numbers or don't eat or don't keep my job. It's the same for Dan, they don't win, he doesn't keep his job. I can't see him keeping guys that are going to take food off his table.

It's different in coaching. You hav to have the available resources to pay off a coach when you have ADs like Friedman and Lyons signing the deals. Lyons gave a very sweetheart deal to Dan without an NCAA apparance on the books. What do we get if he leaves? $50k and a H/H. That's about 1 month's pay for Dan. We want to get rid of him, what's the buyout? My guess is it's something we couldn't afford for several years. We had trouble paying off Denver and Barb Smith. If Dan trends downward the next couple seasons, would we have the money, likely 7-figures, to make a change.

Dan doesn't have to worry about the "food off his table" part for several years. At which point, he will have another job lined up and collected multi-millions from ISU.

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

Working in sales, I either hit my numbers or don't eat or don't keep my job. It's the same for Dan, they don't win, he doesn't keep his job. I can't see him keeping guys that are going to take food off his table.

It's different in coaching. You hav to have the available resources to pay off a coach when you have ADs like Friedman and Lyons signing the deals. Lyons gave a very sweetheart deal to Dan without an NCAA apparance on the books. What do we get if he leaves? $50k and a H/H. That's about 1 month's pay for Dan. We want to get rid of him, what's the buyout? My guess is it's something we couldn't afford for several years. We had trouble paying off Denver and Barb Smith. If Dan trends downward the next couple seasons, would we have the money, likely 7-figures, to make a change.

Dan doesn't have to worry about the "food off his table" part for several years. At which point, he will have another job lined up and collected multi-millions from ISU.

:text-+1:
Someone should be fired at ISU for the terms of Dan's deal. I am all for giving Dan a multi-year contract but for *%&$#* sakes get something for ISU in return.

 

[jwa123]

The rest of the season: in my
OPINION: Start David, Fayne, Yarbrough, Madison and Key. Sub Boogie , Taylor and Clarance. Spot use gassman especially against zones. Take Hein out of regular rotation. Play almost exclusively M2M defense and hopefully get better (if we don’t we are in deep trouble) and scrap the zone. Zone gives up way too much penetration and leaves post players open when the ball is reversed.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

Muller thinking the same thing....
https://twitter.com/Pg_Benson/status/956638004902350848
[/quote]


I like the move of trying to get some form of chemistry created and focused game plan as team looked so lost (including Muller) in that first half. I did not notice but someone mentioned that the assistant coaches did not seem to be actively involved last night. I wonder how the karma is amongst Dan and the new coaches?

 

[Hamdonger]

Muller thinking the same thing....
https://twitter.com/Pg_Benson/status/956638004902350848

Just pure speculation, but I'm guessing it will be the players who were involved in the second half surge last night. We know for sure (or do we) that it will be at least the Big3.

Wonder if any players went to Dan with the suggestion?

 

[Hamdonger]

I think the four obvious ones are The Big3 and David. Who's your pick for the other 4??