Bradley - 02/08/2023 - 7:00 PM - ESPN+

[Redbird222]

 

[stielowp]

For all those who were saying Pedon’s system was working and we could go on a run, when is there legitimate concern we’ve improved very little, if at all, the entire season? We just lost at home by 18 in a game we led for 0 seconds. What can you point to that’s working? How many times can we hear that our competitive spirit wasn’t there or we didn’t play the right way on our journey before that isn’t acceptable? There’s no issue with putting out multiple social media videos about one win against SIU like we won the league, but then we turn around and do this? What’s the proper way to measure success here?

I would still preach patience. None of the players that are on this roster will be present when we are competitive for the Championship again. My hope is that they can show some improvement next season to help us with recruiting. Pedon needs to be able to show recruits that we are on our way up and not just sitting at the bottom of the Valley.

 

[stielowp]

First off, any and every losing season have the most to build on or off. This is a big team but just don’t play like it. Pedon know exactly what he have now and what he wants going forward. I won’t speak for him but I will say from distance Mal is one of the top shooters in this league. Pedon know defensively he needs tougher kids. He also have stated time and time again he would like to play inside out. You can’t have the want to play one way and not go after the kids that will allow you to coach that way. I believe he will get it done. I just don’t know if many kids who have rarely played the pg spot could do it with the chin up. That come from buying into the Head Coach/Coaching Staff. Work on bench depth is key also for moving forward with this program. All n All I’m im ok exactly where they’re at in YEAR 1. Even if I wasn’t it wouldn’t matter.

If we get a post for next year, these players will have to learn how to feed the post. It is one of our biggest weaknesses now on the few times we try to enter it down low.

 

[DWRedbird]

Probably also an important reminder he was still a FT assistant at Ohio State and put trust in a guy to be an assistant that took advantage of it. He's currently stretched thin running the whole program, leading recruiting efforts, teaching Dak how to be an OC, etc. I think another viable assistant could really allow Pedon to get stronger as an in-game coach.

There have been things working against Coach P that deserve mention. One thing I was thinking about yesterday was pre-season talk. Pedon was very high on Kotov. I believe Pedon initially thought in the spring AK would be THE guy he could play through in the paint. I think he felt better about what Schmitt and Andrews then too. That obviously wasn't the case, so through the Portal he brought in a stretch big that in a perfect world, would spell Liam when he needed a breather. I think if all went as planned back in the Spring, the starting lineup would probably look something like Darius, Malachi, Seneca, Liam, Kotov.

Agree with all who say Schmitt deserves more PT. His p&r game with DB during the Belmont game was really good and he does plant his feet and set the screen. He's probably a bit slow defensively but I feel like the Birds get better looks on O when he is out there.

So I guess this is what kind of rubs me the wrong way. Even if he doesn't think Kotov, Andrews, Schmitt are any good, why not run your offense through them anyways, so you can run the offense you want to run instead of the bastarized version we run now? What's the worst that will happen, we lose? So what we are already doing it. At least the guys that do return will know what we are planning for next year if we do.

For clarification on my original point, I'm not at all down on Pedon. I do think there are valid concerns we've seen almost no improvement as the year has gone on. There seems to be some line of thinking that it doesn't matter and this is a lost year regardless. I push back on that and ask why. Again, the guy got introduced to the team an hour after the season ended. He had ample time to recruit. He knew the situation when he accepted the job. I don't understand the sentiment of, well he can't run his offense and he's missing a point guard and a post player so oh well! I understand the core of this team CAN return, but if you're returning the core of a 6-win MVC team is that worth being excited about? For the most part, the core coming back has played 70 or more college basketball games in their career. There's enough of a sample there to say that it's likely they are what they are and aren't going to make some extraordinary leap. I find the line between blind faith and skeptical optimism pretty thin in here. Asking questions about where things are headed and what we are building isn't the same as not believing in the coach.

For what its worth, I agree with your concerns, and I think Pedon is where he is this season largely because of his own choices. I think a lot of how much better I will feel about next season will center around who we will get to fill the seemingly open assistant vacancy (since we've not technically heard anything on Offutt), and if we make any additional roster changes. My comment about not getting excited is more just, I'm apathetic as I knew that the first year with a first time head coach is typically a cutting their teeth period so they can see what they want to as the guy in charge. I would loved to have seen us at least improve as the year went on, but as a team I think we are more or less the same as we were when we started the year. I think part of this is because we are stretched thin, but again thats on him.

I believe being comfortable at any position requires the whole component of all players on the floor. How comfortable would he look with a legit big man that can post at will and get buckets? All those things matter. I can tell when Mal become frustrated out there. His confidence is still high at his position. Every position require help, the pg is no exception.

For what its worth, I'm not saying Mal looks bad or can't play PG, I just mean he looks like he would be more comfortable playing off the ball running off screens or running the baseline to get open looks. I think he plays it just fine for the most part, with normal mistakes for learning to run the point. But, in my opinion we don't have anyone else on the roster (except probably Sandy) who looks like they could run the point consistently in the offense that Pedon runs.

 

[DoubleDeuce]

Not too long ago ISU was coming off a hard fought OT loss at Bradley and back to back wins including first place SIU and we were all feeling pretty good. I'm not ready to throw in the towel yet...ebbs and flows.

 

[Hamdonger]

Last night was hard, I hate losing to Bradley but I am still confident with coach Pedon and what he's building. He consistently says I don't want a flash in the pan success (a la 2017) I want to build a roster who can consistently compete.
I thought nerves played a key in last night, with so many missed layups and opportunities last night I was hoping we could get a bucket and keep it within range but we couldn't. Was hoping for a timeout or something to hold it together but we never got it. Timeouts in situations like that is where I think Pedon needs to improve. I know he has said the whole is greater than the sum of its parts where H contributed vs SIUE, Kotov vs SIU and other good minutes from people but we haven't gotten that consistency from them and then Pedon is searching like he was last night for a guy to be successful. I wish we would just go with DB getting the majority of the bench minutes, Schmitt and whoever so they can grow and maybe get that consistency because just hoping to get it isnt working.

I brought a friend with me to the game last night who coaches HS basketball and has been around it for a long time (his dad has over 600 career wins in HS) he said to me last night that some of the sets and plays ISU runs is really impressive and really good they just couldn't finish. I said responded and said " I like the core but some many are playing out of position." I am looking forward to the the 3 freshman coming in because he haven't had that in years. We both agreed with whoever else leaves and the kids coming in if you get a juco/transfer point to share the point guard duties with Kinziger that then allows Mal to play off of the ball. You get a big who can run play in the paint and defend then you are able to play Liam and Kendall at the forward more and that in return gives us more depth. It takes time but its coming, trust the process.

Dave I can tell you for fact that the staff is expecting JohnnyK to be a backup at PG his freshman year...not a starter. Now perhaps he continues to get better, surprises us all and grabs that PG spot. To his credit he's had a great HS career.

I like our signees but folks, let me remind you...even to a school like Illinois State...from relatively small schools like SJO (Ty Pence), and De Pere isn't huge...it is a TREMENDOUS jump in organized competition. Tremendous. Yeah yeah yeah summer travel ball and the competition I get it...but put them in a college arena where they are on scholarship to perform, and under constant scrutiny from an intense coaching staff (let alone Redbirdfan posters)...it's a different ballgame. First you have to adjust to playing with your new teammates...then comes an adjustment to live practice...then comes an adjustment to actually playing in the game...at this level. It's a road, man.

I know Ty carries a good rep (and gang I like him) but I'd be surprised if he averaged more than 8 a game for us next year...if that.

Plus you think returnees or experienced transfers are just going to lay down and let these freshman take their slots?? Ideally all 3 come in and change the direction of our program but I don't see these frosh doing it next year. Year 2? Could be!

 

[Hamdonger]

This off-season will be the most interesting we've had in a long time. Is there a trip scheduled this summer?

 

[Hamdonger]

So I guess this is what kind of rubs me the wrong way. Even if he doesn't think Kotov, Andrews, Schmitt are any good, why not run your offense through them anyways, so you can run the offense you want to run instead of the bastarized version we run now?

D-Dub I'm a bit confused about this myself. But I speculate with grand all-knowing intensity while Ryan coaches them every day.

 

[isuquinndog]

This off-season will be the most interesting we've had in a long time. Is there a trip scheduled this summer?

I haven't heard of one.

 

[Redbird222]

I haven't heard of one.

I think the last one was Italy the summer before Chastain's last year so summer of 2019 right? I know you can go every fours years so I believe they would be eligible this summer.

 

[SlackBooDom]

I would expect improvement but not contending. Look at area schools that have rebuilt recently. Brian Wardle won 5 games year 1 then I believe 12 year 2. Brad Underwood won 14 then 12. Year 3 is where the jump usually comes. Transfer portal is new and can help, but it’s unrealistic to expect drastic and overnight turnaround.

Brad Underwood was 109-27 and had coached at the Power 5 level. Brian Wardle was 95-65 off back-to-back NIT appearances. Those are slightly different scenarios than what we are working with.

 

[DoubleDeuce]

Here's a distraction from the Bradley game. I like that they seem to have a muppet announcing the game.

 

[Scipio]

I had to endure this game surrounded by PU fans. That’s another subject (Administration: why are you allowing opposition parties tickets in the lower bowl and clustered). Yes, all the breaks were going PU way last night. But we’ve just got to be better. My frustration is overflowing. I’m seriously having doubts we can come back from this. Last night was just soul crushing.

 

[isuquinndog]

I don't think ISU can afford to just not sell tickets to opposing fans. Clustered or not.

 

[Cindy00]

I don't think ISU can afford to just not sell tickets to opposing fans. Clustered or not.

Exactly. Plus, how do you know who someone is cheering for when they buy tickets? It's not like they lied about being a random charity to get discounted/group tickets. We were able to buy tickets at Western Michigan about 3 rows from the floor years ago. If our fans won't show up might as well make money off the Bradley fans. Looked like plenty of them were also helping out beer sales last night. What we need is for Redbird fans to show up and support their team.

 

[ISU86]

Here's a distraction from the Bradley game. I like that they seem to have a muppet announcing the game.

Better announcing than the duo assigned to our telecast. Telly Hughes (ISU alum, no less) and Dave Kaplan sounded about as good as we looked.

And that announcer reminded me of Jonathan Hood doing the UIC games, lots of faux enthusiasm (but apparently, that must what "sells" these days).

 

[Popsto4]

Ok, you can all blame me. Since two seasons before COVID I had not attended a home game. This was the second one this season, the other was Valpo. Yes we used to have both men’s BB and football season tics, but after P Fanye left so did we. Future did not look bright. I had hopes for Pedon but not this year.

This is in no way a knock on the current roster but as my Dad would sometimes say, “ no matter how much you like that tractor, she just doesn’t have enough ponies to get the job done.” I believe they hustle, they compete to the best of their abilities but it just is not there. I also think many of these players could play important roles on many winning teams, they just either cannot carry the load by themselves or are out of position.

Yes, ISU needs a good refrigerator, no doubt. But after watching two games in person and the rest on a 74 inch TV ISU really needs a 6’2” to 6’6” point guard. Not a shooting guard, not a point forward, not a stretch wing, but a true point guard. Someone who was a point guard on the 5th grade team. I could go with a 6 foot point guard if he has a 6-5 shooter that is a lock down defender alongside. I understand I am asking for a lot but look in the past at our really great teams and they all had an outstanding floor general.

My greatest fear is nobody will want to come to a bottom third of a conference of a mid major team that meets the criteria. Looks to be a big hill to climb.

It’s not a big hill for any kid with heart that feel like he have something to prove to the nay sayers. It’s only an uphill climb to those who think they’re better than they are and have little to no work ethic.

Ample time to recruit? I completely disagree with this. The three player class of prep players in this year's class are all kids that committed in July before their senior year. What prep players were available in March that were going to help? None.

The staff did a decent job finding some talent in the portal, but the task to build a roster simply from the portal and returning players from the Muller era was next to impossible at that point of the year, IMO. Returning the current core, which is essentially three players, and adding them to a trio of really talented prep players in Kinziger, Pence and Walker is a hell of a lot better position than this program was in last March. That's not blind faith. It's simply understanding talent. Kinziger and Pence are day one contributors. I think Walker has the skillset to be the best of the bunch down the road. If he can find three more players like LK, DB and MP in the portal, then you have something to build on. I imagine next year's squad will be much deeper than this one. This is a transition year. Simple as that.

Patience is difficult. If the results are the same next February, then I think your concern is warranted.

I don’t see the results being the same next year simply by the returning players that Pedon want to keep. Playing time makes you better it’s called experience

If we get a post for next year, these players will have to learn how to feed the post. It is one of our biggest weaknesses now on the few times we try to enter it down low.

feeding the post greatly depend on the post player being able to post correctly too.

 

[Redbird222]

Exactly. Plus, how do you know who someone is cheering for when they buy tickets? It's not like they lied about being a random charity to get discounted/group tickets. We were able to buy tickets at Western Michigan about 3 rows from the floor years ago. If our fans won't show up might as well make money off the Bradley fans. Looked like plenty of them were also helping out beer sales last night. What we need is for Redbird fans to show up and support their team.

Agree but does the in-game entertainment need to put Bradley and SIU fans on the jumbo tron. We don't need to pump up their troops any more when ours are stairing off in disbelief.

 

[Popsto4]

So I guess this is what kind of rubs me the wrong way. Even if he doesn't think Kotov, Andrews, Schmitt are any good, why not run your offense through them anyways, so you can run the offense you want to run instead of the bastarized version we run now? What's the worst that will happen, we lose? So what we are already doing it. At least the guys that do return will know what we are planning for next year if we do.



For what its worth, I agree with your concerns, and I think Pedon is where he is this season largely because of his own choices. I think a lot of how much better I will feel about next season will center around who we will get to fill the seemingly open assistant vacancy (since we've not technically heard anything on Offutt), and if we make any additional roster changes. My comment about not getting excited is more just, I'm apathetic as I knew that the first year with a first time head coach is typically a cutting their teeth period so they can see what they want to as the guy in charge. I would loved to have seen us at least improve as the year went on, but as a team I think we are more or less the same as we were when we started the year. I think part of this is because we are stretched thin, but again thats on him.



For what its worth, I'm not saying Mal looks bad or can't play PG, I just mean he looks like he would be more comfortable playing off the ball running off screens or running the baseline to get open looks. I think he plays it just fine for the most part, with normal mistakes for learning to run the point. But, in my opinion we don't have anyone else on the roster (except probably Sandy) who looks like they could run the point consistently in the offense that Pedon runs.

For the most part I’m seeing the same things you are. Ik Mal would benefit greatly from playing off ball and I believe he have the capability to make his teammates better playing there. Pedon have eluded to that as well. Having a 2 that can stretch the floor that still looks to pass will and can have at least the offensive end feeding off of him making the offense better. I still say a pg and a big can have this team really good next year with more depth as well.

 

[Bird Friend]

What makes you say this? Recruiting rankings? Have you seen them play in person? There are ten freshmen total in the MVC playing 50% of their team's minutes. Enright, Avila, Tyson, Gillespie, Duax, Campbell, Wolf are contributing to teams in the upper half of the league. It isn't like we are in a world where freshmen walk into the league in major roles for upper-half teams. How did we manage to find 2-3 in the same recruiting class?

Looking at our roster, who’s going to hold them back? And you don’t have to average 20+ minutes per game to make significant contributions.