Zenger out at Kansas

[Reggie Redbird]

Rick Greenspan—Army and Indiana. Not my favorite but clearly had success post ISU.

You do realize that Rick was run out of both West Point & Bloomington...right?

He still got hired on at Rice after Army and IU. He got into trouble there too for his mouth, but he they had no problem paying him six figures to be their AD for 3-4 years.

 

[Reggie Redbird]

Rick Greenspan—Army and Indiana. Not my favorite but clearly had success post ISU.

You do realize that Rick was run out of both West Point & Bloomington...right?

I believe that most AD’s will get run out of somewhere at some point of their careers. And by the way, Rick Greenspan did not get run out of Normal. If my old mind remembers correctly, he hired Kevin Stallings & Todd Berry. Both of them made Redbird Nation very proud.

As much as some, if not most, on here would like to see Larry Lyons gone, He did hired our Basketball coach & Football coach. And I love what he has/is doing to Hancock Stadium.

He hired our WBB coach. He did not hire our MBB or FB coaches.

 

[TheTruth]

He still got hired on at Rice after Army and IU.

Ah yes, thanks for reminding me..... he was run off from Rice too!

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

Rick Greenspan—Army and Indiana. Not my favorite but clearly had success post ISU.

You do realize that Rick was run out of both West Point & Bloomington...right?

I believe that most AD’s will get run out of somewhere at some point of their careers. And by the way, Rick Greenspan did not get run out of Normal. If my old mind remembers correctly, he hired Kevin Stallings & Todd Berry. Both of them made Redbird Nation very proud.

As much as some, if not most, on here would like to see Larry Lyons gone, He did hired our Basketball coach & Football coach. And I love what he has/is doing to Hancock Stadium.

Serious question...what is he doing/done at Hancock that is special?...ordering new turf for old turf that was worn out?...that is called routine maintenance in my book.

 

[Total Red]

Porter Moser is having a GREAT year

True and if he had been great here he wouldn't have been fired.

I take it your point is that a good leader should be able to look at more than just past and current results and be able to judge coaching qualities that project well for the future.

If that's how the game is played then I'm standing by both Muller for basketball and Spack for football with Muller having future NCAA tournament potential and Spack (a Zenger hire) having potential for additional National Championship games.

 

[RedbirdSoxFan]

You do realize that Rick was run out of both West Point & Bloomington...right?

I believe that most AD’s will get run out of somewhere at some point of their careers. And by the way, Rick Greenspan did not get run out of Normal. If my old mind remembers correctly, he hired Kevin Stallings & Todd Berry. Both of them made Redbird Nation very proud.

As much as some, if not most, on here would like to see Larry Lyons gone, He did hired our Basketball coach & Football coach. And I love what he has/is doing to Hancock Stadium.

Serious question...what is he doing/done at Hancock that is special?...ordering new turf for old turf that was worn out?...that is called routine maintenance in my book.

My guess would be that he played a part in the East side of the stadium.

 

[SgtHulka]

Porter Moser is having a GREAT year

True and if he had been great here he wouldn't have been fired.

I take it your point is that a good leader should be able to look at more than just past and current results and be able to judge coaching qualities that project well for the future.

If that's how the game is played then I'm standing by both Muller for basketball and Spack for football with Muller having future NCAA tournament potential and Spack (a Zenger hire) having potential for additional National Championship games.

My point is he was fired by Zenger, screwed over twice by Weber who he beat in the elite 8, beat the school that fired him in the conference championship and made it to the final 4. I'm guessing his cake is so over iced he doesn't know what to do with it an may develop diabetes.

 

[Reggie Redbird]

I believe that most AD’s will get run out of somewhere at some point of their careers. And by the way, Rick Greenspan did not get run out of Normal. If my old mind remembers correctly, he hired Kevin Stallings & Todd Berry. Both of them made Redbird Nation very proud.

As much as some, if not most, on here would like to see Larry Lyons gone, He did hired our Basketball coach & Football coach. And I love what he has/is doing to Hancock Stadium.

Serious question...what is he doing/done at Hancock that is special?...ordering new turf for old turf that was worn out?...that is called routine maintenance in my book.

My guess would be that he played a part in the East side of the stadium.

Did he or any other athletic admin. go out and lobby the students/SGA to approve continuing the fees? That is why the East side got built. No student fees - no stadium upgrade. It's that simple.

We have people whose jobs were to help the university oversee the project. Sure, a lot of people "played a part" in the East side of the stadium. However, where we lacked with Hancock Stadium was with fundraising. Where we're lacking in developing the indoor is with fundraising. It would be great if we could announce some 7-figure (or more) donations or sponsorships towards an indoor facility. When we start getting to even 20% commitments for the project, then I'll get excited.

 

[bb fan]

Yeah, RedbirdSoxFan, eventually you are bound to get "run out" of somewhere if your career is long enough. Certainly Rick Greenspan's was.

I am still trying to figure how somebody, anybody can be soooo bad to be "run out" of someplace to an even bigger program? And then still get a big program job after that?

But I guess if you must work from a contorted perspective, silly in the first place that EVERY SINGLE AD IN THE HISTORY OF A SCHOOL WAS TERRIBLE,, you have bend things quite a bit to fit your narrative.

 

[TIMMY]

Yeah, RedbirdSoxFan, eventually you are bound to get "run out" of somewhere if your career is long enough. Certainly Rick Greenspan's was.

I am still trying to figure how somebody, anybody can be soooo bad to be "run out" of someplace to an even bigger program? And then still get a big program job after that?

But I guess if you must work from a contorted perspective, silly in the first place that EVERY SINGLE AD IN THE HISTORY OF A SCHOOL WAS TERRIBLE,, you have bend things quite a bit to fit your narrative.

I hear Howard Hancock was pretty good. Of course he was never an AD at a D1 school.

 

[bb fan]

He must have been pretty good, Timmy. They named the fieldhouse after him

 

[Bdub777]

Not a single poster has acknowledged that the Hancock project was all Zenger fundraising. We should consider trying to attract him back to finish the west side with completion of the football stadium with tear-down and replacement of Horton (plus adding an indoor football/track facility , the athletic office and the swimming/diving facility). The current swimming/diving facilities are significantly worse than the Normal high schools. He may not want to come back, but he loved the town and only felt he had a great opportunity at Kansas. It is unlikely but would be good for all. Larry’s soon going to be retiring, so why not think about it?

 

[Birdswin]

Ok, here we go with a history.....

When President Tom Wallace was let go - an Interim President, David Strand was selected, along with a hiring and salary freeze was put in place. AD Greenspan saw this as a HUGE problem - he unofficially advised many staff and coaches to be safe and search. The disaster known as Ron Wellman - who cleaned house on coaches was still fresh in a lot of peoples minds. So, Greenspan and Berry left for Army, Stallings left the following year for Vandy - although he was very, very close to accepting the Tennessee job at the same time Berry left, and VB Coach Julie Morgan left - which VB has never been the same.

As for fundraising - that takes a lot of time to establish relationships or re-establish relationships as the case maybe - along with success and an occasional HUGE success on the athletic field, in order for people to step forward. There are some people who are still holding a grudge for the firing of Donewald (Wellman debacle at the timing and how it was handled) - I run into those once in awhile to this day. Zenger and crew were slowly making headway - they needed something like a couple of NCAA basketball wins or a football team going deep into the playoffs - that never happened while Zenger was here. But, he set the groundwork for what has happened.

I thank him for the expansion of tailgating and the Taste of Redbird Country.

 

[TIMMY]

He must have been pretty good, Timmy. They named the fieldhouse after him

It's named after that Horton? Wow. Pretty good for a D2 AD.

 

[Total Red]

Not a single poster has acknowledged that the Hancock project was all Zenger fundraising.

No. As Reggie Redbird pointed out the primary source of funding for the Hancock renovation was a student fee increase which was originally voted on by the students to fund the construction of Redbird Arena. After the funding was no longer needed for RA it was available for Hancock. The student fee referendum took place long before Zenger was here.

Here is the Sept 27, 2011 Pantagraph article about the Hancock renovation.

http://www.pantagraph.com/sports/colleg ... 002e0.html

"While some funds remain from the $1.5 million previously approved for planning Hancock’s upgrade, Bowman called student fees “a prime source of funding.”
“This project will not trigger a hike in student fees, nor will we ask students to pay any new fees,” he said. “The fees students already pay to support athletics and other campus facilities will be directed toward the Hancock Stadium project.”
Bowman acknowledged the retirement of Redbird Arena debt frees up such student fees."

 

[Total Red]

I dug deeper and found this more specific info. As you can see the bulk of the funding comes from the bond issues that were paid with student fees and only 10% of the project was paid with private donations.

http://legacy.ibhe.org/Board/agendas/2012/April/Item%20IV-14.pdf

Table 3 ISU Hancock Stadium Renovation: Funding Sources ($ in 000s)

Source Amount

2012 Bond Revenue Series $20,000.0
2008 Bond Revenue Series 1,500.0
University Funds 1,000.0
Private Contributions 2,500.0

Total $25,000.0

 

[Reggie Redbird]

I dug deeper and found this more specific info. As you can see the bulk of the funding comes from the bond issues that were paid with student fees and only 10% of the project was paid with private donations.

http://legacy.ibhe.org/Board/agendas/2012/April/Item%20IV-14.pdf

Table 3 ISU Hancock Stadium Renovation: Funding Sources ($ in 000s)

Source Amount

2012 Bond Revenue Series $20,000.0
2008 Bond Revenue Series 1,500.0
University Funds 1,000.0
Private Contributions 2,500.0

Total $25,000.0

If I’m not mistaken, they were short on the private contributions as well. I think that is why we had a few cutbacks in the final project because they couldn’t raise the full 10% of desired private giving. If you can’t privately raise 10%, you should thank your lucky stars this got built. Also, if you can’t raise $2.5 mil or more for the FB stadium (remember, this also included the forced capital gifts for the club), how do we expect to raise 10 times that for an indoor?

It didn’t surprise me though; I know several people who were never asked about the project nor invited to any of the meetings despite being decent boosters and season ticket holders for several sports.

 

[Hamdonger]

When President Tom Wallace was let go - an Interim President, David Strand was selected, along with a hiring and salary freeze was put in place. AD Greenspan saw this as a HUGE problem - he unofficially advised many staff and coaches to be safe and search. The disaster known as Ron Wellman - who cleaned house on coaches was still fresh in a lot of peoples minds. So, Greenspan and Berry left for Army, Stallings left the following year for Vandy - although he was very, very close to accepting the Tennessee job at the same time Berry left, and VB Coach Julie Morgan left - which VB has never been the same.

There are some people who are still holding a grudge for the firing of Donewald (Wellman debacle at the timing and how it was handled) - I run into those once in awhile to this day.

The disaster known as Ron Wellman?? No disrespect Birdswin, but you must have one heck of a bone to pick with Wellman. Wellman is arguably the best AD we've ever had, and he's now the senior athletic director in the ACC. (question his success at Wake, sure, but he was excellent for us, and he's been at Wake now for 26 years...so that says something) He's also the one who hired Julie Morgan, a highly decorated UCLA and USC athlete who was and is an outstanding coach - which you do infer.

Donewald wrote his own ticket on the firing. Wellman gave him his chances, and so did Tom Wallace. Excellent coach, no doubt about it, but he could be such a colossal prick in regards to Illinois State PR. I have insight into that firing...there were only 3 people who were in the know in the days prior to the firing, and each was committed to secrecy. Wallace (who Wellman approached and had his full support with the firing), Wellman, and a third party who was notified the night before - who I won't name here. Remember, it was a surprise bombshell announcement that made national headlines. That third party kept a METICULOUS journal on the whole event which I was lucky enough to see first-hand, and I'm going to try and convince the person to release it next year, which will mark the 30th anniversary of Donewald's firing. It's absolutely fascinating.

The two ballsiest leadership moves by AD's in ISU history were the Robinson hiring, and the Donewald firing.

Birdswin, it just hit me and now you've got me curious. Are you a former athletic admin??

 

[Hamdonger]

Stallings actually accepted Tennessee job, then changed his mind. Of course, we played Tennessee in the NCAA opener the following year. Another one of those NCAA tourney selection committee winks, especially given that Stallings and Tennessee's Green were not buddies at the time despite coaching together at KU.

 

[bb fan]

As per usual, This stuff is subject to rumor, 2nd and 3rd hand info, and personal conjecture. And the answers are usually somewhere in the middle. There is no black and white in these dynamics. And and athletics department and university as a whole is subject to the same human resources dynamics and drama as any business anyplace else. Having said that, my perspective is closer to Humdinger's. The Donewald decision was certainly a very difficult one. You knew whatever was decided was going to cause a rift either way. When you are a leader of an organization, you have to do what you think is in best interests overall and long term for that organization. Ron Wellman certainly had an extremely difficult decision to make.