Zenger out at Kansas

[TheTruth]

Perk is happy at Ferris. D1 shouldn't be a used measure of success or failure.

Fair enough..... So, by the same token we shouldn't consider someone moving on from an Illinois State to (for example) Kansas, or Wake Forest as a measure of success or failure....correct?

 

[Total Red]

Fair enough..... So, by the same token we shouldn't consider someone moving on from an Illinois State to (for example) Kansas, or Wake Forest as a measure of success or failure....correct?

Get serious. Tons of people would like to become AD's. Most all the youngsters coming up in athletic administration hope to sit in the AD chair someday and lots of older coaches would like to hang up the whistle and transition into a cozy AD spot. I imagine just about every college AD position draws plenty of applicants. D-I AD jobs are even more sought after and the highly lucrative Power 5 AD positions are only for a select chosen few. It's highly competitive and you have to be very well regarded in the field of athletics to land one.

Personally I apply for the Stanford AD slot every time it comes open. I like the climate in that area. I also apply each time the Pontiff position is up for grabs. I like authentic Italian food even though I'll happily settle for Avanti's. Ok, now I'm not being serious. Don't blame me. Trouck started it.

 

[bb fan]

LOL, TotalRed Great post.

I agree, P5 AD jobs are coveted. The zenith of the biz. And 4 of our last 6 AD's were recruited by P5's.

It just seems to me one of these guys, even just one, would have cracked the magic code to the P5 land some here say we should have accomplished, if anybody could have. But again a few feel they all stunk. No matter the resume and accomplishments. Every. Single. One.

SMH.

 

[TIMMY]

D1 is the pinnacle for most. It pays the best. But if you're looking for day to day I love my life.....I'll take a lower level thank you.

 

[Hamdonger]

When President Tom Wallace was let go - an Interim President, David Strand was selected, along with a hiring and salary freeze was put in place. AD Greenspan saw this as a HUGE problem - he unofficially advised many staff and coaches to be safe and search. The disaster known as Ron Wellman - who cleaned house on coaches was still fresh in a lot of peoples minds. So, Greenspan and Berry left for Army, Stallings left the following year for Vandy - although he was very, very close to accepting the Tennessee job at the same time Berry left, and VB Coach Julie Morgan left - which VB has never been the same.

There are some people who are still holding a grudge for the firing of Donewald (Wellman debacle at the timing and how it was handled) - I run into those once in awhile to this day.

The disaster known as Ron Wellman?? No disrespect Birdswin, but you must have one heck of a bone to pick with Wellman. Wellman is arguably the best AD we've ever had, and he's now the senior athletic director in the ACC. (question his success at Wake, sure, but he was excellent for us, and he's been at Wake now for 26 years...so that says something) He's also the one who hired Julie Morgan, a highly decorated USC athlete who was and is an outstanding coach - which you do infer.

Donewald wrote his own ticket on the firing. Wellman gave him his chances, and so did Tom Wallace. Excellent coach, no doubt about it, but he could be such a colossal prick in regards to Illinois State PR. I have insight into that firing...there were only 3 people who were in the know in the days prior to the firing, and each was committed to secrecy. Wallace (who Wellman approached and had his full support with the firing), Wellman, and a third party who was notified the night before - who I won't name here. Remember, it was a surprise bombshell announcement that made national headlines. That third party kept a METICULOUS journal on the whole event which I was lucky enough to see first-hand, and I'm going to try and convince the person to release it next year, which will mark the 30th anniversary of Donewald's firing. It's absolutely fascinating.

The two ballsiest leadership moves by AD's in ISU history were the Robinson hiring, and the Donewald firing.

Birdswin, it just hit me and now you've got me curious. Are you a former athletic admin??

 

[greenlock]

As usual you are leaving out an important component. Yes Sheahon Zenger talked about the potential here at Illinois State being similar to Kansas State complete with FBS football. Even though he laid out a great vision it barley moved the needle. Most fans/donors feel the Athletic Dept. should be thrilled if they decide to buy season tickets and shouldn't expect much more. What's an AD supposed to do at that point? Pull the money out of his ass?

Agreed, I did leave out the very important component that he was not a good fundraiser..... but, A) I didn't want to be seen as "piling on" & B) Illinois State does have a lousy history of hiring capable fundraisers in the athletics department.

At some point this has to tell you something. When EVERY AD we hire has difficulty raising money for athletics in general and football in particular then don't you have to admit at some point that maybe, just maybe the AD is not the issue? Maybe our fans just aren't all that interested.

Sheahon Zenger is just one of several former AD's that left Illinois State by making a significant promotion style job change. As a B12 member and one the leading basketball schools in the country Kansas would have had lots of top notch AD's to choose from. It's clear that other prominent schools do not agree with your assessment that our lack of fundraising is due to the weak efforts of AD's like Zenger.

Furthermore we know that our alumni are not actually stingy when it comes to supporting higher education. We enjoyed a very successful fundraising campaign about a decade ago called "Redefining Normal" and we're currently engaged in another successful fundraising effort known as "Redbirds Rising". The Illinois State community has been and continues to be motivated to contribute to projects that actually have widespread interest which is as it should be.

The Hancock Stadium renovation project sat on the drawing board for many years. Donors never lined up to any significant degree and we simply had to wait for the student fee funded bond money from Redbird Arena to become available.

I'm glad you want great things for Redbird Athletics but you continue to cling to your mantra that every AD we've ever hired has sucked at fundraising. You've clung to this position even though it ignores the surrounding circumstantial evidence and it clearly isn't logical or the truth.

Yeh, I'm a broken record when it comes to this topic. But it holds true.

Every AD except one that has come through here since 1990 (the start of my personal involvement with fundraising and events) has given lip service to expanding fundraising efforts into the Chicago market. The only one that made some efforts and inroads was Greenspan. For the most part the others just talk about it. Why? It cannot be because they have tried and failed. It could be because as I heard several times before "we need to get our ducks in a row in the B-N before we try Chicago". That short sightedness, or intentional lack of trying to expand fundraising and participation of Chicago alums has held back fundraising AND our athletics more than any other factor in the past 30 years. We keep treading water. The lack of success on the court and field hurts it even more. Of course we saw a bump when we made the Championship in football...but were we ready to take advantage of that peak of success? Nope. Dropped the ball completely....all of the press and coverage and pride from the alums in the Chicago market faded without a plan from the AD. It's almost as if the AD wants to keep the program small and the donations and efforts local.......easier that way.

 

[Total Red]

If we're relating personal experiences with university fundraising I'll go way back in time to the first one I can remember.

In the early 80's I was a recent grad and I got an invitation in the mail to attend a reception for Illinois State alumni at a nice hotel in downtown Springfield. It's a Wyndham now, I think it was called the Forum 30 at the time. Anyway I arrived in a room that soon contained about 40 people. One of the first things I noticed was that it appeared they were hoping for a much larger crowd. A partition divided the room so that it appeared rather full but I think they were really hoping for more attendees so that they would have to remove the divider and use the full room.

Out of the 40 people present about 2 dozen appeared to be alumni like me. The rest were Illinois State administration and staff. Art Adams an Asst to the President spoke to the group and Dan Ghormley the Interim Athletic Director at the time also spoke along with a couple of others. There was another guy I had never heard of before or since that said he headed up the University's fundraising dept. and he made sure he introduced himself to me and everyone else.
I also spoke to alumni from Springfield, Lincoln and Jacksonville. Maybe Decatur alumni were invited too but I didn't speak to any. It was clear the university was trying to reach out to alumni outside the B/N base.

I enjoyed the reception and appreciated the effort but I remember walking away thinking that they really took a loss on that one. Only about 2 dozen alumni showed and about 15 ISU employees came to Springfield to help put on the event plus the cost of renting the room and light refreshments. I'm sure that wasn't anywhere near the ratio of staff to alumni that they were hoping for. Also most of the alumni were more recent grads like me without any spare change in the pocket.

I've never been invited to anything outside of B/N since.......until just recently. I was invited to a Redbird Rising event Sept 15th - IN CHICAGO. Hope I can make it.

 

[TheTruth]

I'm sure Total Red's & greenlock's experiences are pretty typical to what others have had. They truly are a testament to the fact that Illinois State does not have a very impressive history of athletic dept leadership. The fact that Illinois State has not worked to extend its marketing outside of the immediate B-N area has cost it dearly....then again, with 1-AA football and a basketball program that can't realistically improve its conference affiliation because of the 1-AA football issue, they haven't given themselves much to market. It is truly a shame because the potential at Illinois State is enormous.

 

[Redbird28]

I've never been invited to anything outside of B/N since.......until just recently. I was invited to a Redbird Rising event Sept 15th - IN CHICAGO. Hope I can make it.

Despite having a big enough presence on social media to have had former players approach me at random locations because they recognized me and wanted to say they appreciate me banging the ISU drum, I have never been invited to anything resembling a fundraising event.

I guess unless you are in some sort of metro area, or even B/N comparable size area, your money doesn't need to be sought?

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

I've never been invited to anything outside of B/N since.......until just recently. I was invited to a Redbird Rising event Sept 15th - IN CHICAGO. Hope I can make it.

Despite having a big enough presence on social media to have had former players approach me at random locations because they recognized me and wanted to say they appreciate me banging the ISU drum, I have never been invited to anything resembling a fundraising event.

I guess unless you are in some sort of metro area, or even B/N comparable size area, your money doesn't need to be sought?

don't feel bad as I have donated over $5K this past year and do not get invited :shock:

 

[Redbird28]

don't feel bad as I have donated over $5K this past year and do not get invited :shock:

I don't, necessarily. I have a daughter, and that's where my money goes now and for the forseeable future so...

 

[Throughbirdseyes]

Zenger was responsible for the complete remodel of the baseball field and wanted to bring “tradition” to Redbird Arena by naming it Doug Collins Court. I might be mistaken but I believe he also lined up Don Franke to donate the $$$ for the statue of Collins/Robinson. Zenger did ALOT for ISU athletics!

 

[Reggie Redbird]

Zenger was responsible for the complete remodel of the baseball field and wanted to bring “tradition” to Redbird Arena by naming it Doug Collins Court. I might be mistaken but I believe he also lined up Don Franke to donate the $$$ for the statue of Collins/Robinson. Zenger did ALOT for ISU athletics!

The baseball field was done during Zenger's tenure but it was not based on fundraising he or his team did. Give credit to him for getting DC Court and the locker room/statue in the works though.

 

[Total Red]

I could write a really long detailed post but I'm going to summarize this first part. I've had a good opportunity to see inside the athletic fundraising process of that orangy school down the road and I can tell you that even though the scale of the operation is different the process there is the same as it is here. The donor has to make the first move and put themselves on the radar.

If you're not already on the radar at Illinois State then this is what your invitation looks like - no it's not personal but it is a nice video and you can't say you're not aware of it. Every university uses form letters, social media and websites like GoRedbirds to reach the first level of potential donors.
https://www.facebook.com/IllinoisStateUniversity/videos/10154983110022444/

ChiRedbirdfan, some things that might be at work here. I bumped up my ISU Foundation gift this year and then a short time later I got the invitation to the Redbirds Rising event in Chicago - fortunate timing.
Even though Redbirds Rising covers both the academic and athletic sides of the university they may be using the Foundation donor list and you may have contributed to the Weisbecker Fund?
Either way I'm guessing you just missed an invite and next year my ISU Foundation gift will go back down and I'll be back on the outside looking in with my nose pressed to the glass.

It sometimes feels like college athletics is like any other business and nothing is done if there isn't a $ in it. Well, even beyond the non-revenue sports I've seen some examples of generosity by our athletic dept. Every year they announce the football recruits in Februrary and since the renovation it's been in the Hancock Club area. It's Free and open to all. So even if you don't give a dime you can hang out in the Stadium Club area and listen to Coach Spack talk recruits. The coaching staff is also around before and after I've used the opportunity in the past to get insight on the DB and RB positions from Coach Conard. Nice guy, I'll miss him.

I apologize for the football references but I'm trying to stick to actual first-hand experiences. I'm sure there are similar opportunities to talk arithmetic with Coach Dan and his staff if you make the effort.

So- 2 points of truth I know some of you don't want to hear
1) while I'm sure our athletic fundraising is far from perfect I think they have a good idea of what types of efforts produce results which ones don't. If they're not doing something you think they should it might not be as effective as you think. You're not in college athletics fundraising.
2) the process at Illinois State is very similar to other peer institutions. It focuses on known participants.

 

[Redbird222]

When calculating my total donation do I include the cost of tickets for Quincy and Charleston Southern or not?

 

[TIMMY]

When calculating my total donation do I include the cost of tickets for Quincy and Charleston Southern or not?

You should get a double credit.

 

[greenlock]

I could write a really long detailed post but I'm going to summarize this first part. I've had a good opportunity to see inside the athletic fundraising process of that orangy school down the road and I can tell you that even though the scale of the operation is different the process there is the same as it is here. The donor has to make the first move and put themselves on the radar.

If you're not already on the radar at Illinois State then this is what your invitation looks like - no it's not personal but it is a nice video and you can't say you're not aware of it. Every university uses form letters, social media and websites like GoRedbirds to reach the first level of potential donors.
https://www.facebook.com/IllinoisStateUniversity/videos/10154983110022444/

ChiRedbirdfan, some things that might be at work here. I bumped up my ISU Foundation gift this year and then a short time later I got the invitation to the Redbirds Rising event in Chicago - fortunate timing.
Even though Redbirds Rising covers both the academic and athletic sides of the university they may be using the Foundation donor list and you may have contributed to the Weisbecker Fund?
Either way I'm guessing you just missed an invite and next year my ISU Foundation gift will go back down and I'll be back on the outside looking in with my nose pressed to the glass.

It sometimes feels like college athletics is like any other business and nothing is done if there isn't a $ in it. Well, even beyond the non-revenue sports I've seen some examples of generosity by our athletic dept. Every year they announce the football recruits in Februrary and since the renovation it's been in the Hancock Club area. It's Free and open to all. So even if you don't give a dime you can hang out in the Stadium Club area and listen to Coach Spack talk recruits. The coaching staff is also around before and after I've used the opportunity in the past to get insight on the DB and RB positions from Coach Conard. Nice guy, I'll miss him.

I apologize for the football references but I'm trying to stick to actual first-hand experiences. I'm sure there are similar opportunities to talk arithmetic with Coach Dan and his staff if you make the effort.

So- 2 points of truth I know some of you don't want to hear
1) while I'm sure our athletic fundraising is far from perfect I think they have a good idea of what types of efforts produce results which ones don't. If they're not doing something you think they should it might not be as effective as you think. You're not in college athletics fundraising.
2) the process at Illinois State is very similar to other peer institutions. It focuses on known participants.

Unfortunately there are a lot of things at work. I agree if you aren't donating you aren't on the radar. How many donations or contributions do you make without being asked unless you are doing it because you are getting something in return? If you don't ask you won't get. I've stated this before on here, but when I served on the RBC Board we had less than 100 people from the Chicago area contributing to athletics. Maybe it has changed, but I am sure not a lot. There are 80,000 ISU alums in the Chicago area? No one is giving if you don't ask. Most won't give if you ask unless you have something specific in mind...a project or a plan. When was the last time we saw that in athletics?? I believe the University success in fundraising is because of a plan....plain and simple.

And yes, let's talk about those events. Those events like most things ISU are set up for the convenience of locals. Sure, that's where most of the support is, but it is a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you schedule events at 6:00 on a weeknight how many people can drive down from the Chicago area. Even the larger events are held on weeknights. I had former athletic department employees tell me that it's difficult to schedule those events on the weekends because the staff has to work so many weekends during basketball and football. Really?

Bottom line is that the athletic department has always and continues to treat ISU like a small D-3 program with their vision and fundraising efforts. Keep it local. Make them happy and don't worry about trying to get to the next level and expand our market....it will either happen naturally or not at all....and we know how that ends. Even when the opportunities arise to move in and get a bigger piece of the pie (national championship football) our athletic department was NOT prepared and did NOT make any inroads to Chicago or other markets.

 

[TheTruth]

Bottom line is that the athletic department has always and continues to treat ISU like a small D-3 program with their vision and fundraising efforts. Keep it local. Make them happy and don't worry about trying to get to the next level and expand our market.

That's about as perfect a description of the situation as I've seen.

 

[Hamdonger]

Bottom line is that the athletic department has always and continues to treat ISU like a small D-3 program with their vision and fundraising efforts. Keep it local. Make them happy and don't worry about trying to get to the next level and expand our market.

That's about as perfect a description of the situation as I've seen.

Insightful post. Definitely.

I would disagree with the term "always."

 

[Bird Friend]

....it will either happen naturally or not at all....

I think it will naturally not happen at all.