MVC Coaching Hot Seat

[TBS_20]

I cannot fathom how a “fan” of a team wishes they lost. It’s lost on me. I can’t hope for losses.

Being a fan doesn't mean W's. It also encompasses what's best for everyone. Dan leaving is best and if 0-25 would have got us there I would gladly accept it. Next seasons is another 12 or less win season. Is that what you want or should they maybe try with someone else? The sooner people will stop convincing themselves of idiotic expectations and telling themselves this team will put it together and win 18-20. No, they won't. They simply can't with the current coach. He's in over his head. Even if they did, 18-20 is no mans land. Over .500 but not even good enough for the NIT in a normal season.

 

[Birdfriend72]

I cannot fathom how a “fan” of a team wishes they lost. It’s lost on me. I can’t hope for losses.

I can’t fathom how a fan can stand for a team to stand by and tread water, when they should be wanting their team to share the successes of Drake and Loyola. We have give Dan plenty of time to build this program...Going on 10 years now. If any coach should be feeling sorry for himself it should be the Bradley coach. He made the tournament last season and was hosed!

 

[Birdfriend72]

Being a fan doesn't mean W's. It also encompasses what's best for everyone. Dan leaving is best and if 0-25 would have got us there I would gladly accept it. Next seasons is another 12 or less win season. Is that what you want or should they maybe try with someone else? The sooner people will stop convincing themselves of idiotic expectations and telling themselves this team will put it together and win 18-20. No, they won't. They simply can't with the current coach. He's in over his head. Even if they did, 18-20 is no mans land. Over .500 but not even good enough for the NIT in a normal season.

Every season Dan is here shining his below .500 record on this program- is just another year we are set back. I totally agree. At some point, Dan has to understand that he hasn’t done the job...and it’s in the best interest of the boys and the program as a whole to move on. Most people learn on the job, develop and succeed. That hasn’t been the case here. Do I wish Dan would have succeeded...most definitely!

 

[Birdfriend72]

Being a fan doesn't mean W's. It also encompasses what's best for everyone. Dan leaving is best and if 0-25 would have got us there I would gladly accept it. Next seasons is another 12 or less win season. Is that what you want or should they maybe try with someone else? The sooner people will stop convincing themselves of idiotic expectations and telling themselves this team will put it together and win 18-20. No, they won't. They simply can't with the current coach. He's in over his head. Even if they did, 18-20 is no mans land. Over .500 but not even good enough for the NIT in a normal season.

They care more about Dan than the kids success. I can’t share that same view. College basketball has become a business...and whether we like it or not- it’s here to stay. It use to be about the kids 30 years ago. It’s now about building your program to success (Wichita, Loyola, VCU, Gonzaga). If you can’t come up with the game plan than maybe it’s time to move our basketball program to D2 to the level of the football team. That isn’t a knock on the football program either. What prevents the football program from being relevant? MONEY/SUCCESS.

 

[CaliRdBrd]

What fans here don’t understand is winning brings in money. Consistent winning brings in LOTS of money. The more time we waste waiting for the prodigal son to find his rhythm (he won’t), the deeper the hole we dig ourselves and more money we lose out on (by not winning)
If you don’t buy him out now, you run the risk of burying this program even deeper into irrelevance (if that’s even possible at this point).
Get him the $1.5 and move on already!!!

 

[The Beak]

What fans here don’t understand is winning brings in money. Consistent winning brings in LOTS of money. The more time we waste waiting for the prodigal son to find his rhythm (he won’t), the deeper the hole we dig ourselves and more money we lose out on (by not winning)
If you don’t buy him out now, you run the risk of burying this program even deeper into irrelevance (if that’s even possible at this point).
Get him the $1.5 and move on already!!!

So what part of "we need a change but apparently ISU admin doesn't want to shell out the bucks for a buyout" don't you understand?

Most here say a change is needed, they just don't deliver that message like a 3rd grader on a sugar high.

Your beef is with ISU. Pony up and you may see the results you and many here want.

Sorry I don't have the cash, so here we are.

 

[CaliRdBrd]

So what part of "we need a change but apparently ISU admin doesn't want to shell out the bucks for a buyout" don't you understand?

Most here say a change is needed, they just don't deliver that message like a 3rd grader on a sugar high.

Your beef is with ISU. Pony up and you may see the results you and many here want.

Sorry I don't have the cash, so here we are.

Who is asking you for the cash? Obtuse much?

 

[Birdfriend72]

So what part of "we need a change but apparently ISU admin doesn't want to shell out the bucks for a buyout" don't you understand?

Most here say a change is needed, they just don't deliver that message like a 3rd grader on a sugar high.

Your beef is with ISU. Pony up and you may see the results you and many here want.

Sorry I don't have the cash, so here we are.

So, if my 401k starts to tumble...are you going to pony up? In the end, you are saying that most on here know that this program isn't going anywhere until Dan is gone. If most on here would relay that to the AD...maybe that might make a difference.

 

[Adunk33]

Fire Muller...now!

https://chicago.suntimes.com/sports-saturday/2021/3/5/22315964/depaul-basketball-dave-leitao-dewayne-peevy Found this article interesting because I feel like DePaul is in a similar spot with a new AD and a program that's a mess. Quite a contrast in answers from DePaul's first year AD to the one...

www.redbirdfan.net

 

[gobirds85]

So what part of "we need a change but apparently ISU admin doesn't want to shell out the bucks for a buyout" don't you understand?

Most here say a change is needed, they just don't deliver that message like a 3rd grader on a sugar high.

Your beef is with ISU. Pony up and you may see the results you and many here want.

Sorry I don't have the cash, so here we are.

Does anyone on here actually know we don't have the coin to dispatch Dan? I know we have discussed this over and over and over again, but in reality we don't know if the funds are there or not. And do we have to pay Dan a lump sum as he exits or can something be worked out that allows payment to him over time. Honestly, I don't know and I assume no one here knows. As Cali has stated, winning will bring in $$$$, more fans, more interest, better recruits. I can't tell you if ISU can afford to fire Dan, but I can tell you they can't afford to keep him. Let's face it...we can't get any lower than 10th place and another Thursday night exit.

 

[isuquinndog]

I can’t fathom how a fan can stand for a team to stand by and tread water, when they should be wanting their team to share the successes of Drake and Loyola. We have give Dan plenty of time to build this program...Going on 10 years now. If any coach should be feeling sorry for himself it should be the Bradley coach. He made the tournament last season and was hosed!

I never said it wasn't time to move on from Dan. Not over the last few seasons. But I will never ever cheer for an ISU team to lose. There aren't draft picks involved. There is no prize for finishing last. I will cheer for those kids with the Redbird logo on their jersey to win as much as they can.

 

[BirdsEyeView]

I never said it wasn't time to move on from Dan. Not over the last few seasons. But I will never ever cheer for an ISU team to lose. There aren't draft picks involved. There is no prize for finishing last. I will cheer for those kids with the Redbird logo on their jersey to win as much as they can.

Would the administration have fired Muller at 0-25? You would certainly hope. Did a few of those wins provide the administration with a glimmer of promise for the future, enough to keep Dan around? I think so, especially the performances of our young guards.

From a purely optics standpoint for recruits, our perception as a program can't get much lower. The only selling point we offer right now is "playing time" for a good big man.

The old saying - "You have to spend money to make money" - applies here. $1.5 million is a ton of money upfront, but if we can make that up with a good coach, good recruiter that puts us in Loyola territory (or even Drake with their A+ hires), then that money is made up in ticket sales, postseason $ shares, etc. over time. Delaying this only puts us further into the abyss. Again, does 0-25 get him fired now? Who knows, but it certainly doesn't give any glimmer of hope.

Next year, season ticket sales are going to plummet until we have a winning product on the court again. That hurts the revenue just as much as an upfront expense, in my opinion. Short-sighted POV vs Big Picture. We need Big Picture...

 

[Birds90]

I really see both sides of the Lansing situation. His tenure has been decent for that school and the past two years have been pretty good, but it seems people have forgotten that he was under .500 for 5 straight years from 2014-2019. Also, maybe people should wait to see who they hire. Micah Shrewsberry is an alum of In State and a protegee of Stevens and Painter. Supposedly, he has been in the mix at some P5 openings. If they end up with him, the criticism will end up looking silly.

The Lansing situation could end up being a cautionary tail for the Birds. If we are going to dismiss Muller's '21 and '20 campaigns as being outliers, we also need need to admit that the '15 and '17 seasons were outliers. That means that we are hoping for Muller to return to his 18-15 (10-8) self. That is fine if it includes an Arch Madness title, but there is no reason to believe that will happen.

In other words, it is very possible that Dan gets us back to a few 18-15 (10-8) seasons. I could easily a situation in which the administration and donors get tired of it and finally make a move, only to have that move universally ripped by the media (a la the Lansing situation). "How could ISU fire Muller after a 4th place finish?!" Just one more reason why the band-aid should be ripped off now. What is our end game here? How will Muller be able to recruit moving forward? He will be on the hot seat until he makes the NCAAT.

 

[TBS_20]

it depends on how you see hope. those guards with muller as coach might up it to 12 wins.

 

[CaliRdBrd]

Would the administration have fired Muller at 0-25? You would certainly hope. Did a few of those wins provide the administration with a glimmer of promise for the future, enough to keep Dan around? I think so, especially the performances of our young guards.

From a purely optics standpoint for recruits, our perception as a program can't get much lower. The only selling point we offer right now is "playing time" for a good big man.

The old saying - "You have to spend money to make money" - applies here. $1.5 million is a ton of money upfront, but if we can make that up with a good coach, good recruiter that puts us in Loyola territory (or even Drake with their A+ hires), then that money is made up in ticket sales, postseason $ shares, etc. over time. Delaying this only puts us further into the abyss. Again, does 0-25 get him fired now? Who knows, but it certainly doesn't give any glimmer of hope.

Next year, season ticket sales are going to plummet until we have a winning product on the court again. That hurts the revenue just as much as an upfront expense, in my opinion. Short-sighted POV vs Big Picture. We need Big Picture...

Exactly what I’m saying. Thank you

 

[CaliRdBrd]

I never said it wasn't time to move on from Dan. Not over the last few seasons. But I will never ever cheer for an ISU team to lose. There aren't draft picks involved. There is no prize for finishing last. I will cheer for those kids with the Redbird logo on their jersey to win as much as they can.

I have no problem rooting for another loss in already abysmal season if it means it gets us one step closer to cleaning house so we can get someone in here who can turn this ship around.
I guess that’s the difference between those that are in love with whoever puts an ISU jersey on, and those who want a program that competes in March Madness.
Not saying either philosophy is right or wrong, just that we’re on entirely different sides of that spectrum...you seem more MLK-like, in that the means justify the end and I’m more Machiavellian- in that the end justifies the means.
I think we can both (hopefully, all) agree that things need to get better...and soon.

 

[CaliRdBrd]

I really see both sides of the Lansing situation. His tenure has been decent for that school and the past two years have been pretty good, but it seems people have forgotten that he was under .500 for 5 straight years from 2014-2019. Also, maybe people should wait to see who they hire. Micah Shrewsberry is an alum of In State and a protegee of Stevens and Painter. Supposedly, he has been in the mix at some P5 openings. If they end up with him, the criticism will end up looking silly.

The Lansing situation could end up being a cautionary tail for the Birds. If we are going to dismiss Muller's '21 and '20 campaigns as being outliers, we also need need to admit that the '15 and '17 seasons were outliers. That means that we are hoping for Muller to return to his 18-15 (10-8) self. That is fine if it includes an Arch Madness title, but there is no reason to believe that will happen.

In other words, it is very possible that Dan gets us back to a few 18-15 (10-8) seasons. I could easily a situation in which the administration and donors get tired of it and finally make a move, only to have that move universally ripped by the media (a la the Lansing situation). "How could ISU fire Muller after a 4th place finish?!" Just one more reason why the band-aid should be ripped off now. What is our end game here? How will Muller be able to recruit moving forward? He will be on the hot seat until he makes the NCAAT.

Even with an Arch Madness title, 18-15 (10-8) is not fine. Not at all.
Think bigger, man!

 

[The Beak]

So what part of "we need a change but apparently ISU admin doesn't want to shell out the bucks for a buyout" don't you understand?

Most here say a change is needed, they just don't deliver that message like a 3rd grader on a sugar high.

Your beef is with ISU. Pony up and you may see the results you and many here want.

Sorry I don't have the cash, so here we are.

Who is asking you for the cash? Obtuse much?

You said "What fans here don’t understand is winning brings in money."

Who is saying that? All most are saying is that ISU is likely not making a change because of the buyout. But we don't even know that for sure.
For all we know, the new A.D. wants to give Muller a chance in a non-covid year. I have no idea, but again from what I'm seeing on this board, most wish we could move on from this coach.

So again: what part of "we need a change but apparently ISU admin doesn't want to shell out the bucks for a buyout" don't you understand?

 

[SgtHulka]

I never said it wasn't time to move on from Dan. Not over the last few seasons. But I will never ever cheer for an ISU team to lose. There aren't draft picks involved. There is no prize for finishing last. I will cheer for those kids with the Redbird logo on their jersey to win as much as they can.

You missed one of the biggest reason not to cheer for the Birds to lose. What we say/hope has 0 affect on the outcome of a game. IF that were the case we would have probably gone 0-25 based on the negative vibes here and elsewhere. Obviously that effort bore no fruit. Our record is what it is regardless of what we desire it to be. I'll always cheer for ISU to win, and bradley to lose

 

[gobirds85]

You said "What fans here don’t understand is winning brings in money."

Who is saying that? All most are saying is that ISU is likely not making a change because of the buyout. But we don't even know that for sure.
For all we know, the new A.D. wants to give Muller a chance in a non-covid year. I have no idea, but again from what I'm seeing on this board, most wish we could move on from this coach.

So again: what part of "we need a change but apparently ISU admin doesn't want to shell out the bucks for a buyout" don't you understand?

Two of the last three years were pre-Covid and we didn't necessarily light it up then either. The direction of the program is akin to a dumpster fire being pushed over a cliff. There should be nothing else to see here. Dan can't get it done. Sorry, but his record doesn't lie. He made a hell of a lot of $$$ this last year for all of 5.5 D1 wins.