MULLER GONE

[RedbirdSoxFan]

It was a rolling five-year contract that Lyons renewed in ‘18 and ‘19, thereby extending it to seven. We made it to Arch Madness championship in the former, and were a 9-9 Thursday team only after a pair of ridiculous halfcourt heaves beat us in the latter.

The contract itself was the issue, and it was not unique to Muller; I believe Jank operated on a similar deal - and likely with a similar minimal buyout (if any) when he left.

Interesting thing about those halfcourt shots; they would have given us two road wins.

 

[CaliRdBrd]

I agree that 3 is shorter than 10. I agree that Muller and Lyons were failing. I agree that by some standards articulated here, Muller was accomplishing what was desired over the course of his first 5 years, and then fell off dramatically. Just stating that I hope that people aren't so reactionary in future posts. It doesn't serve anyone. Was the program a dumpster fire of biblical proportions and an embarrassment to any and all who have attended ISU, comparable to UIC but at least they have a good location? Or is it a diamond in the rough that has fallen on hard times the past half decade. I'm in the latter group.

Past half decade? I guess that depends on how you determine success.
Muller has proven that 2017 was an anomaly.
IMO, the last relevant/regularly competitive team was in ‘96. That team was building on something.
That said, I think we all agree Muller was an outstanding player, a helluva poster child for ISU, just not a very good coach.

 

[stielowp]

NCAA tournament on a somewhat consistent basis and NIT in off years needs to be where the program gets to that is not a goal but it should be a reality

So top 2 in the MVC every year? That is what it will take. The MVC is far from a NCAA 2 bid league and the distance will only get greater. Do you wonder why teams like Loyola and Wichita St. left? The MVC (and other conferences) expanding their conference schedule means fewer Non-con games. Those games are absolutely crucial for a MVC team to get an at-large in the NCAA and now it will be even harder to get them on the schedule. The only opportunity will be the Holiday Invite Tourneys, but those happen so early in the season the Committee forgets about them. How many times do you hear then talk about those tourney results during the Selection Show? Pay off Joe Lunardi!! That is the only way to get the attention of the Committee.

 

[jamminjamarsmiley]

Interesting thing about those halfcourt shots; they would have given us two road wins.

Yes half court shots are quite low % shots, but we should not forget the blown leads that allowed those shots to matter. They were complete coaching disasters by Dan that those games were even that close. I believe both games they led by 10+ late in the game.

 

[Total Red]

It was a rolling five-year contract that Lyons renewed in ‘18 and ‘19, thereby extending it to seven. We made it to Arch Madness championship in the former, and were a 9-9 Thursday team only after a pair of ridiculous halfcourt heaves beat us in the latter.

The contract itself was the issue, and it was not unique to Muller; I believe Jank operated on a similar deal - and likely with a similar minimal buyout (if any) when he left.

This GoRedbirds article from 2017 says it's a 7 year contract extending through 2024.

Muller Signs Contract Extension Through 2024 - Illinois State University Athletics

Illinois State Director of Athletics Larry Lyons announced Tuesday that head men's basketball coach Dan Muller has signed a contract extension. The new agreement

goredbirds.com

 

[kw34]

PLee:

 

[Bird Friend]

This day and age if you can't get it done in three years your done. With the transfer process you can reshape your roster quickly. Also with all the players available coaching has become even more important. Players are going to come and go. You have to have a way to win consistently while dealing with turnover.

JUCO coaches do this every year.

 

[Dmills]

There were obviously multiple factors to Dan's downfall. I know there is going to be some disagreement on here but I think the first 7 years were pretty good. We finished 6th, 5th, 3rd, 2nd, 1st, 3rd, and 5th. Unfortunately, the final 5th place season was the start of a slide down to the bottom of the Valley. It was also the season we had the 2 buzzer beater losses (not saying those caused his downfall or is some excuse, just saying we could have easily finished higher in the standings in 2018-19).

Now Dan has been lucky to have some great assistants during his time at ISU. 4 of his assistants from his first 6 years would leave to become or have since become head coaches. We also lost TWard during that time. There was a lot of coaching turnover, but he kept bringing in good "future coaching prospects" which is one of the more impressive parts about his tenure to me.

After the 18-19 season, Muller hired Brian Jones as the associate HC after he stepped down at North Dakota. Since then, ISU has gone 28-54, finishing 9th and 10th (and currently in 9th) during that time (full disclosure - Marcus Belcher has been around for the same period). I was hoping that Muller would move on from Jones this year and shake up the coaching staff. Instead, he made what I believe were good additions in Tony Wills and Rob Johnson while losing Brian Reese and Spencer Johnson (former director of basketball operations).

While I am not saying Muller should have been retained or anything along those lines, I think if he would have seen that and tried to go a different direction he could have bettered his chances. It is on Muller to figure out the coaching staff, but I think the history shows that he can be a successful coach with the right assistants. For these reasons I have discussed, I do not get why some people seem to be celebrating his firing as if they could not endure one more game with Coach Muller on the sidelines. What we have now is his right wing man who has been around for all of the losing. Trust me, I get it that some people are just glad they have certainty over his destiny now, but some seem to make it more personal than it needs to be. I get the logistics of the situation with Muller's contract and I believe the AD probably made a good move, but I wish it could have ended at Arch Madness in St. Louis

I wanted to mention this angle because it has not really been discussed. Ultimately the buck stops with Muller and that is why he was canned and most, if not all of the staff will soon be gone. Regardless, I am excited for the next generation of Redbird basketball under a new direction. All in all, it has been refreshing to see most of us more able to converse and reason with one another since the news broke. In my opinion, some on the forum have become a lot more enjoyable to interact with and have begun providing good insight. I especially appreciate those of you who advocated openly for his firing, but now are able to respectfully thank him for his time at Illinois State and recognize his accomplishments and highlights.

 

[bombay]

Is there a statute of limitations for crying about Dan Muller?

 

[jamminjamarsmiley]

Is there a statute of limitations for crying about Dan Muller?

Is there one for crying about former players who transferred to pac 12 schools?

 

[Birgs]

There are coaches, teachers, leaders, followers.

Critiques and correctors.

There are also those of us that can be compassionate and commiserate.

You can aim for the best, bust understand circumstances.

College basketball has become a business. I understand that.

Doesn’t make it right. Walk by the Dougie Fresh/Will Rob statue; kneel by the 7 fountain.

Not a cool sequence of events.

Some newbies are being very disrespectful and dancing on the grave of a borderline Rushmore Redbird hoopster.

 

[Yogi]

I think Dan was a great player but not a mount rushmore Doug Collins Bubbles Hawkins Jeff Wilkens Billy Lewis Rick Lamb Jackie carmichael Pars Lee Osaris plus many more are up there before Dan

 

[redbirds2000]

Good question…how long of a leash does a coach need to put his imprint on a program. 5 years seems about right.
To jump in a coach for poor performance after their first 2-3 years

Interesting thing about those halfcourt shots; they would have given us two road wins.

How about the 12 point lead on Valpo with 5 minutes left and the 5 point lead on both MSU and Valpo with less than 20 seconds left. The half court shots should have never come into play.

 

[redbirds2000]

I think Dan was a great player but not a mount rushmore Doug Collins Bubbles Hawkins Jeff Wilkens Billy Lewis Rick Lamb Jackie carmichael Pars Lee Osaris plus many more are up there before Dan

Jamar Smiley and Rico Hill made those late 90s teams happen. And of course Rob Gibbons!

 

[redbirds2000]

JUCO coaches do this every year.

I said it before. Drake did it in 2 years with 2 different coaches. I expect the new coach to completely flip the roster via the portal and get us out of Thursday night really fast and in the top 4 soon after.

 

[redbirds2000]

Is there a statute of limitations for crying about Dan Muller?

It ends on a Selection Sunday when Illinois State is announced in the bracket. NCAA bracket. It doesn't end for the NIT to be clear.

 

[Birgs]

I think Dan was a great player but not a mount rushmore Doug Collins Bubbles Hawkins Jeff Wilkens Billy Lewis Rick Lamb Jackie carmichael Pars Lee Osaris plus many more are up there before Dan

Awards
Championships
MVC regular season (2017)
MVC Freshman of the Year (1995) 2× MVC Defensive Player of the Year (1996, 1997) MVC Tournament MOP (1998) MVC Coach of the Year (2017) Started every game all 4 years during the best era of ISU Basketball: 1994–95 Second 20–13 13–5 T–2nd NIT Second Round 1995–96 Third 22–12 13–5 2nd NIT Quarterfinal 1996–97 Fourth 24–6 14–4 1st NCAA First Round 1997–98 Fifth 25–6 16–2 1st NCAA Second Round Made the crucial buzzer-beater lay-up against Tennessee. Who can forget that killer dunk that ended up gracing the scoreboard on Main St.? Pillar of the community. Bone Scholar. I would love if he would entertain possibly taking on an ambassador role for ISU Athletics. Coaching success or not, he has been an exemplary Redbird. The rest of you haters... not so much.

 

[Total Red]

Championships
Awards
MVC regular season (2017)
MVC Freshman of the Year (1995) 2× MVC Defensive Player of the Year (1996, 1997) MVC Tournament MOP (1998) MVC Coach of the Year (2017) Started every game all 4 years during the best era of ISU Basketball: 1994–95 Second 20–13 13–5 T–2nd NIT Second Round 1995–96 Third 22–12 13–5 2nd NIT Quarterfinal 1996–97 Fourth 24–6 14–4 1st NCAA First Round 1997–98 Fifth 25–6 16–2 1st NCAA Second Round Made the crucial buzzer-beater lay-up against Tennessee. Who can forget that killer dunk that ended up gracing the scoreboard on Main St.? Pillar of the community. Bone Scholar. I would love if he would entertain possibly taking on an ambassador role for ISU Athletics. Coaching success or not, he has been an exemplary Redbird. The rest of you haters... not so much.

I think the Ambassador role might be awkward but that is an extremely impressive resume.
"Doug Collins Bubbles Hawkins Jeff Wilkens Billy Lewis Rick Lamb Jackie carmichael Pars Lee Osaris" - how many of those guys made it to a NCAA tournament game much less won one? Isn't that what I've been hearing for years. It's all about making the NCAA's. Sure Dan had help getting there and winning. Rico Hill may have been more talented but Dan was the heart, soul and guts of those winning teams.

 

[Birdfriend72]

Awards
Championships
MVC regular season (2017)
MVC Freshman of the Year (1995) 2× MVC Defensive Player of the Year (1996, 1997) MVC Tournament MOP (1998) MVC Coach of the Year (2017) Started every game all 4 years during the best era of ISU Basketball: 1994–95 Second 20–13 13–5 T–2nd NIT Second Round 1995–96 Third 22–12 13–5 2nd NIT Quarterfinal 1996–97 Fourth 24–6 14–4 1st NCAA First Round 1997–98 Fifth 25–6 16–2 1st NCAA Second Round Made the crucial buzzer-beater lay-up against Tennessee. Who can forget that killer dunk that ended up gracing the scoreboard on Main St.? Pillar of the community. Bone Scholar. I would love if he would entertain possibly taking on an ambassador role for ISU Athletics. Coaching success or not, he has been an exemplary Redbird. The rest of you haters... not so much.

What it all boils down to is that all that success as a player doesn’t mean squat when you are making $600,000 to teach kids to play the game! I don’t think anyone ever said they wouldn’t want Dan on the floor as a player! I want Dan’s coached team to stop giving up all those easy buckets at the basket! UNI had there first 5-8 shots two feet in front of the hoop! Defense must get better!

 

[TBS_20]

Championships
Awards
MVC regular season (2017)
MVC Freshman of the Year (1995) 2× MVC Defensive Player of the Year (1996, 1997) MVC Tournament MOP (1998) MVC Coach of the Year (2017) Started every game all 4 years during the best era of ISU Basketball: 1994–95 Second 20–13 13–5 T–2nd NIT Second Round 1995–96 Third 22–12 13–5 2nd NIT Quarterfinal 1996–97 Fourth 24–6 14–4 1st NCAA First Round 1997–98 Fifth 25–6 16–2 1st NCAA Second Round Made the crucial buzzer-beater lay-up against Tennessee. Who can forget that killer dunk that ended up gracing the scoreboard on Main St.? Pillar of the community. Bone Scholar. I would love if he would entertain possibly taking on an ambassador role for ISU Athletics. Coaching success or not, he has been an exemplary Redbird. The rest of you haters... not so much.

well, i have nothing to add because hes already gone. your blah, blah, blah wont bring him back. everyone likes dan as a person but he cant coach. we can like dan and not want him to be coach