It Is Time to Make a Coaching Change...

[ricohill]

I still think the best way to handle his contract after the MVC title was give him a raise, extend his contract to 2 or 3 years out from that current season with a rollover option, if both sides agree each year (Indy State did this with Lansing). That way every year he's guaranteed 2 or 3 more years from the current season, but when things go down hill it gives ISU an out to say we aren't rolling you over unless you win.

So a head coach is sitting in a junior or senior's living room trying to recruit him to Old State U.

One of the first questions a recruit and or his family is going to ask:

What is your current contract situation? Coach says "I am under contract for this year and 2 more after that. "

Recruit does the Math...."this guy isn't under contract thru my junior year! Hmmmm. Does that mean if I commit I might be on the move if he doesn't get renewed?"

That's exactly how it works in recruiting. Ask Lovie Smith.

And I guarantee every coach lies to that family as they look for every job opportunity they can to leave. The NCAA is changing the transfer rules for this very reason. This is a shady business. Dan is one trip to the NCAA Tournament away from leaving.

Lovie Smith is a perfect example why you don't extend a coach. That is throwing bad money at bad money. I look at Jacobson at UNI. Huge contract and ever since has been awful. Lansing, they took away his rollover last year and now suddenly the highest NET rating in the league. Not saying those are related, but the last thing you ever want to do is give a coach a long term deal. It is always bad for the school and gravy for the coach. Now UNI has no way to get rid of Jacobson, but at least if Lansing pulls a Lansing and falls apart they can financially afford to get rid of him.

I'm not saying Dan isn't competitive and I'm sure the contract doesn't change his drive, but it's the fact he's being rewarded at an incredibly high rate compared to the level of success he has achieved.

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

Dan is not going to coach better or harder because of incentives in his contract. The guy's an athlete and a competitor. When he wins he will get a raise or leave for a better job. Or just decide to stay because this where he wants to be. (Spack) If he loses at some point he will be gone. And then the coin toss. Stallings/Richardson. Who wants to flip that coin??? Be careful because you never know what's behind the curtain.

Not going to the dance for 20 years is frustrating as hell. Everyone wants ISU in the final 4. Duh.

One last thing. I've shopped 2 kids looking at colleges and the coaches future tenure was at the top of our list. I don't think I'm alone in that.

Gotta say Timmy that a long term coach's contract is fools gold in some respects as typically the coach can leave whenever he wants and universities routinely fire coach's that have long term contracts.

 

[ricohill]

Dan is not going to coach better or harder because of incentives in his contract. The guy's an athlete and a competitor. When he wins he will get a raise or leave for a better job. Or just decide to stay because this where he wants to be. (Spack) If he loses at some point he will be gone. And then the coin toss. Stallings/Richardson. Who wants to flip that coin??? Be careful because you never know what's behind the curtain.

Not going to the dance for 20 years is frustrating as hell. Everyone wants ISU in the final 4. Duh.

One last thing. I've shopped 2 kids looking at colleges and the coaches future tenure was at the top of our list. I don't think I'm alone in that.

Gotta say Timmy that a long term coach's contract is fools gold in some respects as typically the coach can leave whenever he wants and universities routinely fire coach's that have long term contracts.

Exactly, ISU is the one with all the risk. They have to pay the money no matter what Dan does. Dan can leave whenever he wants by paying a small amount (50k).

Also, Dan has been ok, but he hasn't been 7 years, $3.6 million good.

 

[Bird Friend]

You think recruits know if a coach is on the edge of staying or not? Why would a recruit come here if the school won't show them that their coach is going to stay for any amount of time? You have to think of the ramifications of what you are saying. It's not as easy as "I think Dan is a bad coach, don't extend him" or "just do year to year contracts, no big deal!"

It doesn't work that way.

You found video of Quinn?

 

[Bird Friend]

so now that you've admitted he is not going to return to Normal, who do you actually want that would actually come here

Are you saying that we’re settling? Muller is here because no one wants to be here? I have no problem with Dan being here! I just think the extensions were non warranted. He did nothing to receive them. He can be year to year...and bonus him well should he do something that would warrant a bonus.

I would never give a coach an extension without going to the NCAA Tournament. To give someone that amount of time and money for an NIT bid is how you end up with a coach for way too long.

I like Dan, but if he left they could find someone just as good in 5 seconds. I don’t trust Larry to find that person, but there are plenty of good coaches out there.

Dan is not getting another job until he goes to an NCAA tournament so why pay him double what anyone else would?

You mean like we found someone as good as Stallings when he left?

 

[Bird Friend]

Dan is not going to coach better or harder because of incentives in his contract. The guy's an athlete and a competitor. When he wins he will get a raise or leave for a better job. Or just decide to stay because this where he wants to be. (Spack) If he loses at some point he will be gone. And then the coin toss. Stallings/Richardson. Who wants to flip that coin??? Be careful because you never know what's behind the curtain.

Not going to the dance for 20 years is frustrating as hell. Everyone wants ISU in the final 4. Duh.

One last thing. I've shopped 2 kids looking at colleges and the coaches future tenure was at the top of our list. I don't think I'm alone in that.

Gotta say Timmy that a long term coach's contract is fools gold in some respects as typically the coach can leave whenever he wants and universities routinely fire coach's that have long term contracts.

Exactly, ISU is the one with all the risk. They have to pay the money no matter what Dan does. Dan can leave whenever he wants by paying a small amount (50k).

Also, Dan has been ok, but he hasn't been 7 years, $3.6 million good.

Funny, I seem to remember the board arguing that he was better than 7 years, $3.6M good this time last year. Many wanted to give him more money . . . and we weren't busting up our opponents then.

Anyone "as good or better" that we might want to hire--were Muller to be fired--would start contract negotiations at a figure higher than Dan's salary. So with the buyout of Dan plus the new salary, you're asking ISU to pony up >$1.2M per year.

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

I still think the best way to handle his contract after the MVC title was give him a raise, extend his contract to 2 or 3 years out from that current season with a rollover option, if both sides agree each year (Indy State did this with Lansing). That way every year he's guaranteed 2 or 3 more years from the current season, but when things go down hill it gives ISU an out to say we aren't rolling you over unless you win.

So a head coach is sitting in a junior or senior's living room trying to recruit him to Old State U.

One of the first questions a recruit and or his family is going to ask:

What is your current contract situation? Coach says "I am under contract for this year and 2 more after that. "

Recruit does the Math...."this guy isn't under contract thru my junior year! Hmmmm. Does that mean if I commit I might be on the move if he doesn't get renewed?"

That's exactly how it works in recruiting. Ask Lovie Smith.

That argument has been there for many years and it serves the coach's profession very well, IMO. In the end I am not certain it truly does much for the athletes or the institutions, especially mid-majors where the big dogs can use their dresser change to buyout a coach's contract if they want him . example of low buyout at $50K for Muller. At best I can see a rolling four year contract term where at the end of each season, if the coach is successful, then extend the contract another year so it is back to four years. But why give a 6 year contract term, especially at a mid-major???...it is not like ISU is routinely getting sophs/juniors in high school to commit to ISU. Alternatively ISU has become (which I understand the reason's why) or is becoming a heavy juco/transfer program that is struggling to have enough player's eligible to play as many roster players are transfers that must sit a year. That actually shortens the player's tenure at ISU and the need for a longer coach's contract.

(As an aside, if student athletes are so worried about who their coach is then what does that say about Muller given all of the transfers that have left ISU while he has coached?...just a thought I had when reading a comment about how important a coach is for determining where a player resides)

BTW this is not just a critical post of practices at ISU as it is a college sports industry problem, IMO. It also is not critical of Muller who received the contract.

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

I still think the best way to handle his contract after the MVC title was give him a raise, extend his contract to 2 or 3 years out from that current season with a rollover option, if both sides agree each year (Indy State did this with Lansing). That way every year he's guaranteed 2 or 3 more years from the current season, but when things go down hill it gives ISU an out to say we aren't rolling you over unless you win.

So a head coach is sitting in a junior or senior's living room trying to recruit him to Old State U.

One of the first questions a recruit and or his family is going to ask:

What is your current contract situation? Coach says "I am under contract for this year and 2 more after that. "

Recruit does the Math...."this guy isn't under contract thru my junior year! Hmmmm. Does that mean if I commit I might be on the move if he doesn't get renewed?"

That's exactly how it works in recruiting. Ask Lovie Smith.

Question Mel..if you are an Illini football recruit are you feeling secure committing to Illini and Lovie because he got a recent contract extension? Lovie is a good example of where the length of the contract or even a recent contract extension is meaningless, IMO. Look who is #4 in the most recent coach's hot seat despite an extension within the last month.

http://coacheshotseat.com/

 

[ISU FAN 1]

Time to get rid of this Hall of Famer.

https://goredbirds.com/news/2018/12/4/mens-basketball-dan-muller-named-to-indiana-basketball-hall-of-fame-silver-anniversary-team.aspx

 

[TIMMY]

Are you saying that we’re settling? Muller is here because no one wants to be here? I have no problem with Dan being here! I just think the extensions were non warranted. He did nothing to receive them. He can be year to year...and bonus him well should he do something that would warrant a bonus.

I would never give a coach an extension without going to the NCAA Tournament. To give someone that amount of time and money for an NIT bid is how you end up with a coach for way too long.

I like Dan, but if he left they could find someone just as good in 5 seconds. I don’t trust Larry to find that person, but there are plenty of good coaches out there.

Dan is not getting another job until he goes to an NCAA tournament so why pay him double what anyone else would?

You mean like we found someone as good as Stallings when he left?

Porter didn't exactly set the world on fire either. Richardson 56-64. Moser 51-67. Eight long years.

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

Yak talk is overtop as savior, IMO He was a high school coach 5 years ago and I'll bet needs to learn a lot before becoming a head coach.

 

[SgtHulka]

Yak talk is overtop as savior, IMO He was a high school coach 5 years ago and I'll bet needs to learn a lot before becoming a head coach.

But... We're his UCLA. Or maybe that's he's our John Wooden :roll:

 

[cpacmel]

Question Mel..if you are an Illini football recruit are you feeling secure committing to Illini and Lovie because he got a recent contract extension? Lovie is a good example of where the length of the contract or even a recent contract extension is meaningless, IMO. Look who is #4 in the most recent coach's hot seat despite an extension within the last month.

http://coacheshotseat.com/

Security is always a good thing. And extensions while not guarantees, do show investment.

And a random website claiming any coach is on a hot seat doesn’t mean that is the actual climate in that very athletic department. And in the end that is what really matters.

And I’m neither an Illini fan or a Lovie Smith guy. I just understand it. Whitman believes in him. And in the end he’s the guy making the decisions. Right or wrong.

 

[Reggie Redbird]

After watching Larry Fedora get a $14 mil buyout at North Carolina, I could see the Illini paying anywhere under $10 mil if he continues to throw up losing records. However, that will have to come from private funds or BTN money. It also likely means Whitman is on his way out too.

Since Lovie will be 61 before next season, I can’t say I see him coaching much, if at all, past this contract term. Maybe he wants to coach until he’s 70 or 75, who knows. However, I just don’t see it being that long.

Illinois can have their rose-colored glasses, but if he’s sitting at 17-43 or 19-45 overall and has a Big Ten record of around 10-35 after the 2020 season, Illini fans will grow tired. Considering their non-con schedules, there is no reason they should be 0 for 5 in making a bowl game.

 

[RedbirdMan]

Absolutely zero defense, all the players look worse than last year, there has been zero player development since Yaklich and Oliver left, a terribly constructed team. This team has a lot of talent. This team is bad. Muller is not taking ISU anywhere but backwards.

 

[RedBirdYogaGirl4Life]

This is beyond the epitome of brutality. The whole season is beyond the epitome of brutality.

If anyone of us did our jobs like this we all would be fired. Let me know who would sign my petition for Dan "Your Doomed" Mueller's firing.

 

[RedbirdMan]

This is beyond the epitome of brutality. The whole season is beyond the epitome of brutality.

If anyone of us did our jobs like this we all would be fired. Let me know who would sign my petition for Dan "Your Doomed" Mueller's firing.

:text-+1:

 

[Jsnhbe1Birds]

I'll sign 18 times

 

[CaliRdBrd]

Absolutely zero defense, all the players look worse than last year, there has been zero player development since Yaklich and Oliver left, a terribly constructed team. This team has a lot of talent. This team is bad. Muller is not taking ISU anywhere but backwards.

We need to quit saying this team has a lot of talent. They don’t.
Name one player we have that was highly sought after by a solid P5 program.
At best we’re getting 2-star players. The difference is a good staff can take those 2-star guys and get them to the next level.
Something is seriously missing, but I’ll be damned if me or anyone (possibly including HCDM) knows what it is.

 

[Jsnhbe1Birds]

Absolutely zero defense, all the players look worse than last year, there has been zero player development since Yaklich and Oliver left, a terribly constructed team. This team has a lot of talent. This team is bad. Muller is not taking ISU anywhere but backwards.

We need to quit saying this team has a lot of talent. They don’t.
Name one player we have that was highly sought after by a solid P5 program.
At best we’re getting 2-star players. The difference is a good staff can take those 2-star guys and get them to the next level.
Something is seriously missing, but I’ll be damned if me or anyone (possibly including HCDM) knows what it is.

:text-+1: to the talent portion

Yak. Yak is what we're missing. Michigan lost their big man who lead them to the final four and are still 10-0. He has been publicly lauded for the defense that took Michigan to the championship game.