ISU vs Loyola of Chi. 2/19

[redbirdfan04]

I am genuinely concerned that arch-rival Bradley is recruiting better players than we are. When you look at Childs, Henry from Saskatchewan, and now the kid from Finland you have to wonder how Wardle is finding these kids. I’m happy with Horne and Reeves and think an injury free Bruninga will contribute, but still believe Bradley has out recruited us.

Our records would indicate they have the better players this year. I do hope Horne and Reeves stay because I do believe they are more talented than the Bradley kids. I think this is a deeper discussion at this point, team chemistry, believing they are going to win, looking out for number one, coaching, game planning. Once again we were out coached, out hustled, out played last night. It had nothing to do with talent in my opinion. 24 had a career night for Loyola but yet we continued to play off him and let him make it rain behind the arc. Getting a hand in his face takes zero talent.

 

[TheTruth]

I am genuinely concerned that arch-rival Bradley is recruiting better players than we are. When you look at Childs, Henry from Saskatchewan, and now the kid from Finland you have to wonder how Wardle is finding these kids. I’m happy with Horne and Reeves and think an injury free Bruninga will contribute, but still believe Bradley has out recruited us.

This is a HUGE problem and it's only going to get worse in the short term. After losing 20+ games this season (something that just isn't done at Illinois State), Dan will inevitably be on the hot seat, which means Larry can't extend him yet the coaches recruiting against him can use his contract status against Illinois State. But this is the wrong thread for the facts that we face. We're supposed to pretend that everything is hunky dory, so that the thread does not get locked down.

 

[Hrtnfldhse]

I am genuinely concerned that arch-rival Bradley is recruiting better players than we are. When you look at Childs, Henry from Saskatchewan, and now the kid from Finland you have to wonder how Wardle is finding these kids. I’m happy with Horne and Reeves and think an injury free Bruninga will contribute, but still believe Bradley has out recruited us.

I’m worried more about development. Remember guys like Todd Wemhoener? I can name many (Mark Zwart) that we’re developed like a minor league system. Junior and Seniors need to play like such to allow our youth to develop. If Fisher is mediocre than we need more production from a freshman. Jackie Carmichael’s don’t come along everyday in a program that’s 8-20. It will be more of the Dinma route. I don’t think Muller would have had the patience for Dinma.

agree with developing players for their junior and senior years. However, we have no juniors or seniors that have been here their whole career. All are transfers or JC players.

 

[Loyl2u]

Was really happy to see either Ndiaye/Fisher and Idowu/Bruninga played the vast majority of the first half. the zone was a needed change up after first minutes and it really caught them off guard. Not surprising they made adjustments at half-time. Guards looked tired in 2nd half, were not closing on shots as well as 1st half and not as active on offense.
I understand that it is tough to watch Fisher or Rey missing in-close looks, but playing a single big or the two swings together(Fisher/bruninga) mean that the Redbirds can’t effectively matchup, challenge at the rim, rebound and have a interior presence that opens up the perimeter.

Birds needed a TO in the last 10minutes as that run happened- were they out of timeouts?

Another tough loss.

They have to provide more offense and relief to the guards. i know they set a lot of screens around the perimeter but they do get opportunities and they need to convert on a more consistent basis.

Rey has to get more rebounds. His positioning is lacking and it shows. Keith is much more active on the boards especially when one of the other three bigs are in the game with him.

Rey and Hillsman are both slow on defense and often cause matchups issues or some of those easy look break downs because of unnecessary switching or playing screens poorly. I generally would not play the two of them together.

I often wonder if we had one additional post player that was effective what would the impact would be. It wouldn't cure all woes, but I think it would make a significant of difference.

I thought Taylor rebounded well again. He is starting to move better. I would keep slowly keep increasing his minutes assuming he can handle it health wise.

I honestly think that it is possible to be successful with little scoring out of the post. Agree that Taylor looks better every game. I’m happy to see that he has been playing like a post player that steps out to shoot. JC plays around the perimeter like a guard.

The absence of post players has been my issue this season. When you put Rey, Abdou, Fisher or Taylor out there by themselves they aren’t going to be very effective. Last night was the first time since first UNI that Rey was on floor with another forward for any minutes and I’m concerned that if Boyd would have been available, we wouldn’t have seen it then.

 

[Redbird222]

Was really happy to see either Ndiaye/Fisher and Idowu/Bruninga played the vast majority of the first half. the zone was a needed change up after first minutes and it really caught them off guard. Not surprising they made adjustments at half-time. Guards looked tired in 2nd half, were not closing on shots as well as 1st half and not as active on offense.
I understand that it is tough to watch Fisher or Rey missing in-close looks, but playing a single big or the two swings together(Fisher/bruninga) mean that the Redbirds can’t effectively matchup, challenge at the rim, rebound and have a interior presence that opens up the perimeter.

Birds needed a TO in the last 10minutes as that run happened- were they out of timeouts?

Another tough loss.

They have to provide more offense and relief to the guards. i know they set a lot of screens around the perimeter but they do get opportunities and they need to convert on a more consistent basis.

Rey has to get more rebounds. His positioning is lacking and it shows. Keith is much more active on the boards especially when one of the other three bigs are in the game with him.

Rey and Hillsman are both slow on defense and often cause matchups issues or some of those easy look break downs because of unnecessary switching or playing screens poorly. I generally would not play the two of them together.

I often wonder if we had one additional post player that was effective what would the impact would be. It wouldn't cure all woes, but I think it would make a significant of difference.

I thought Taylor rebounded well again. He is starting to move better. I would keep slowly keep increasing his minutes assuming he can handle it health wise.

I honestly think that it is possible to be successful with little scoring out of the post. Agree that Taylor looks better every game. I’m happy to see that he has been playing like a post player that steps out to shoot. JC plays around the perimeter like a guard.

The absence of post players has been my issue this season. When you put Rey, Abdou, Fisher or Taylor out there by themselves they aren’t going to be very effective. Last night was the first time since first UNI that Rey was on floor with another forward for any minutes and I’m concerned that if Boyd would have been available, we wouldn’t have seen it then.

I think we agree on a lot of things. The lack of consistent production from our post players has really hurt this team. Their performance has routinely put additional pressure on other facets of the game. I keep hoping for an uptick here and some relief.

I also agree since they are not the strongest post players they perform better together than being on the floor without another big.

I also agree that you dont always have to score from the post to be successful; however, having a balance inside outside approach would be my preference. Also, sometimes you have have at least a credible threat of being able to score from the post. If you have no threat, defenses will attack the other facets of your game more aggressively. This is one component driving our current woes.

 

[Birdfriend72]

I am genuinely concerned that arch-rival Bradley is recruiting better players than we are. When you look at Childs, Henry from Saskatchewan, and now the kid from Finland you have to wonder how Wardle is finding these kids. I’m happy with Horne and Reeves and think an injury free Bruninga will contribute, but still believe Bradley has out recruited us.

I’m worried more about development. Remember guys like Todd Wemhoener? I can name many (Mark Zwart) that we’re developed like a minor league system. Junior and Seniors need to play like such to allow our youth to develop. If Fisher is mediocre than we need more production from a freshman. Jackie Carmichael’s don’t come along everyday in a program that’s 8-20. It will be more of the Dinma route. I don’t think Muller would have had the patience for Dinma.

agree with developing players for their junior and senior years. However, we have no juniors or seniors that have been here their whole career. All are transfers or JC players.

Good point! That’s because we look for instant gratification. Unfortunately, it’s too late for a 4 year developing plan. That should have been done 4 years ago. Muller has had more than enough time to change course. His only saving grace is his horrible contract.

 

[jamminjamarsmiley]

I am genuinely concerned that arch-rival Bradley is recruiting better players than we are. When you look at Childs, Henry from Saskatchewan, and now the kid from Finland you have to wonder how Wardle is finding these kids. I’m happy with Horne and Reeves and think an injury free Bruninga will contribute, but still believe Bradley has out recruited us.

This is a HUGE problem and it's only going to get worse in the short term. After losing 20+ games this season (something that just isn't done at Illinois State), Dan will inevitably be on the hot seat, which means Larry can't extend him yet the coaches recruiting against him can use his contract status against Illinois State. But this is the wrong thread for the facts that we face. We're supposed to pretend that everything is hunky dory, so that the thread does not get locked down.

I'm confused. When I look on twitter I see a bunch of ISU fans saying that Horne and Reeves are on pace to become ISU legends and have their jerseys hanging in the rafters? Plus, the 5 star incoming recruits are going to make a huge impact. What is the concern???

 

[The Beak]

I am genuinely concerned that arch-rival Bradley is recruiting better players than we are. When you look at Childs, Henry from Saskatchewan, and now the kid from Finland you have to wonder how Wardle is finding these kids. I’m happy with Horne and Reeves and think an injury free Bruninga will contribute, but still believe Bradley has out recruited us.

This is a HUGE problem and it's only going to get worse in the short term. After losing 20+ games this season (something that just isn't done at Illinois State), Dan will inevitably be on the hot seat, which means Larry can't extend him yet the coaches recruiting against him can use his contract status against Illinois State. But this is the wrong thread for the facts that we face. We're supposed to pretend that everything is hunky dory, so that the thread does not get locked down.

I'm confused. When I look on twitter I see a bunch of ISU fans saying that Horne and Reeves are on pace to become ISU legends and have their jerseys hanging in the rafters? Plus, the 5 star incoming recruits are going to make a huge impact. What is the concern???

That's pretty funny Jammy. Jukebox is in your future ...

 

[redbirdfan04]

I am genuinely concerned that arch-rival Bradley is recruiting better players than we are. When you look at Childs, Henry from Saskatchewan, and now the kid from Finland you have to wonder how Wardle is finding these kids. I’m happy with Horne and Reeves and think an injury free Bruninga will contribute, but still believe Bradley has out recruited us.

This is a HUGE problem and it's only going to get worse in the short term. After losing 20+ games this season (something that just isn't done at Illinois State), Dan will inevitably be on the hot seat, which means Larry can't extend him yet the coaches recruiting against him can use his contract status against Illinois State. But this is the wrong thread for the facts that we face. We're supposed to pretend that everything is hunky dory, so that the thread does not get locked down.

I'm confused. When I look on twitter I see a bunch of ISU fans saying that Horne and Reeves are on pace to become ISU legends and have their jerseys hanging in the rafters? Plus, the 5 star incoming recruits are going to make a huge impact. What is the concern???

How many 5 star players have ever come to ISU? I am excited for the players that are coming in. As a fan you should be as well. Thumbs up to you knocking kids that have not even stepped foot on our court yet. This season has been by far the worst in recent memory but why make negative comments about two of our freshman or incoming kids? I get you are mad about Dan and the administration you have made that very clear, and some of your points I do agree with but knocking the players is a low blow.

 

[jamminjamarsmiley]

This is a HUGE problem and it's only going to get worse in the short term. After losing 20+ games this season (something that just isn't done at Illinois State), Dan will inevitably be on the hot seat, which means Larry can't extend him yet the coaches recruiting against him can use his contract status against Illinois State. But this is the wrong thread for the facts that we face. We're supposed to pretend that everything is hunky dory, so that the thread does not get locked down.

I'm confused. When I look on twitter I see a bunch of ISU fans saying that Horne and Reeves are on pace to become ISU legends and have their jerseys hanging in the rafters? Plus, the 5 star incoming recruits are going to make a huge impact. What is the concern???

How many 5 star players have ever come to ISU? I am excited for the players that are coming in. As a fan you should be as well. Thumbs up to you knocking kids that have not even stepped foot on our court yet. This season has been by far the worst in recent memory but why make negative comments about two of our freshman or incoming kids? I get you are mad about Dan and the administration you have made that very clear, and some of your points I do agree with but knocking the players is a low blow.

I am not knocking any players - it was a knock on the fans who spew that sort of stuff.

I am not excited about the incoming class - nor do I think they will be terrible. None of them had a P5 offer or even legitimate consideration from what I can tell. So no, I am not excited. However, I haven't seen any of them play in a college basketball game, so I wont write them off.

 

[J0K3R2]

2016-2017
- UCF NIT - up 36-23 at half - L 63-62

Off topic, but this list dredged up the memories of that game...

Some of the worst officiating I’ve ever seen, across all sports, ever. Had some bullsh*t experimental rules for the game, and had three referees with too little depth perception to be able to see that UCF’s guy tripped on his own damn shoelaces and gave him the (winning) free throws.

Never in my life have I ever seen RA so genuinely angry. There were what, some 8k+ in attendance? Pretty sure the refs got a police escort out. People were mad. Kid in the band snapped his drum sticks in half at the end.

Deprived us of what would have been a legitimately full house for ISU-UIUC, and I’d bet the farm that we would have won that game, if not for the utterly and totally botched refereeing job that happened to us against UCF.

I’m still mad about that game. That was three years ago. Also probably the closest I’ve seen ISU to doing much of anything great in my 22 years of Redbird fandom.

 

[Morans14]

I'm confused. When I look on twitter I see a bunch of ISU fans saying that Horne and Reeves are on pace to become ISU legends and have their jerseys hanging in the rafters? Plus, the 5 star incoming recruits are going to make a huge impact. What is the concern???

How many 5 star players have ever come to ISU? I am excited for the players that are coming in. As a fan you should be as well. Thumbs up to you knocking kids that have not even stepped foot on our court yet. This season has been by far the worst in recent memory but why make negative comments about two of our freshman or incoming kids? I get you are mad about Dan and the administration you have made that very clear, and some of your points I do agree with but knocking the players is a low blow.

I am not knocking any players - it was a knock on the fans who spew that sort of stuff.

I am not excited about the incoming class - nor do I think they will be terrible. None of them had a P5 offer or even legitimate consideration from what I can tell. So no, I am not excited. However, I haven't seen any of them play in a college basketball game, so I wont write them off.

Interesting word choice. Spew? Being hopeful or positive and expressing that on social media is considered "spewing"?

What a sad world you must live in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[V Boy]

So Muller is:

0-2 vs Moser (former ISU head coach)
0-2 vs Mullins (rookie)
0-1 vs Wardle (arch-rival)

You look at Loyola next year and they basically have everyone back. That’s going to be 0-2 next year. Bradley has Childs back and some solid guards back as well. Hard to think we will suddenly leapfrog them. SIU will have to plug some holes but Jones and Domask are stronger than our returnees. Most importantly Mullins has already gotten his entire team to buy into a style of play. That looks bleak as well.

This feels like a much longer turnaround.

I don’t even watch the games. It’s so pathetic and sad.

 

[Manchester Matt]

I'm confused. When I look on twitter I see a bunch of ISU fans saying that Horne and Reeves are on pace to become ISU legends and have their jerseys hanging in the rafters? Plus, the 5 star incoming recruits are going to make a huge impact. What is the concern???

How many 5 star players have ever come to ISU? I am excited for the players that are coming in. As a fan you should be as well. Thumbs up to you knocking kids that have not even stepped foot on our court yet. This season has been by far the worst in recent memory but why make negative comments about two of our freshman or incoming kids? I get you are mad about Dan and the administration you have made that very clear, and some of your points I do agree with but knocking the players is a low blow.

I am not knocking any players - it was a knock on the fans who spew that sort of stuff.

I am not excited about the incoming class - nor do I think they will be terrible. None of them had a P5 offer or even legitimate consideration from what I can tell. So no, I am not excited. However, I haven't seen any of them play in a college basketball game, so I wont write them off.

Would you take Marcus Domask on this team? How about Elijah Childs?

Just a couple of Valley studs that had ZERO P5 offers. Stop focusing on the offers they get. It's silly.

 

[gobirds85]

2016-2017
- UCF NIT - up 36-23 at half - L 63-62

Off topic, but this list dredged up the memories of that game...

Some of the worst officiating I’ve ever seen, across all sports, ever. Had some bullsh*t experimental rules for the game, and had three referees with too little depth perception to be able to see that UCF’s guy tripped on his own damn shoelaces and gave him the (winning) free throws.

Never in my life have I ever seen RA so genuinely angry. There were what, some 8k+ in attendance? Pretty sure the refs got a police escort out. People were mad. Kid in the band snapped his drum sticks in half at the end.

Deprived us of what would have been a legitimately full house for ISU-UIUC, and I’d bet the farm that we would have won that game, if not for the utterly and totally botched refereeing job that happened to us against UCF.

I’m still mad about that game. That was three years ago. Also probably the closest I’ve seen ISU to doing much of anything great in my 22 years of Redbird fandom.

Total bull sh*t call at the end. Some say the ref bailed UCF out. Spoiler alert...he did. Some say McIntosh should not have been in that position to allow the call to be made. But c'mon, how many times does a ref make that call under one second, with the shooter off balance, and not even remotely close to the basket. WE GOT SCREWED!!!!

But just another example of a blown double digit lead.

 

[ricohill]

How many 5 star players have ever come to ISU? I am excited for the players that are coming in. As a fan you should be as well. Thumbs up to you knocking kids that have not even stepped foot on our court yet. This season has been by far the worst in recent memory but why make negative comments about two of our freshman or incoming kids? I get you are mad about Dan and the administration you have made that very clear, and some of your points I do agree with but knocking the players is a low blow.

I am not knocking any players - it was a knock on the fans who spew that sort of stuff.

I am not excited about the incoming class - nor do I think they will be terrible. None of them had a P5 offer or even legitimate consideration from what I can tell. So no, I am not excited. However, I haven't seen any of them play in a college basketball game, so I wont write them off.

Would you take Marcus Domask on this team? How about Elijah Childs?

Just a couple of Valley studs that had ZERO P5 offers. Stop focusing on the offers they get. It's silly.

Childs was a 3 star recruit and Domask was Mr. Basketball. Not power 5, but they are clearly better than what we've recruited lately and have coming in.

 

[Redbird222]

How many halftime leads has Muller blown in his career? It's gotta be more than most coaches at this stage of their career.

2012-13 -
- Northwestern - 10 point 2nd half lead - L 69-72
- Louisville - 8 pt halftime lead - L 66-69
- Wyoming - 19 pt lead 2nd half - L 81-67
- Wichita State - 10 pt lead with 6:41 left - L 68-67

2013-14
-Vermont - 18 pt 1st half lead - L 76-87
-Missouri State - 10 pt half time lead, 12 pt lead with 13 mins to go- L 70-78
-SIU - 2 pt lead with 29 secs - L 65-66

2014-15
-Utah State - 8 pt second half lead - L 55-60
-Indiana State - 3 pt lead with 3 to go - L 70-71
-UNI - 12 pt lead with 10 mins to go - L 53-54
- SIU - 2 pt lead with 1:37 to go - L 59-65
-UNI - MVC Tourney 14 pt halftime lead - L 60-69

2015-16
-Maryland - 5pt lead w 7 mins to go - L 66-77
- SIU - 12 point 2nd half lead - L 78-81
- Mo State - 6pt lead 46 seconds left in regulation - 4 pt lead 2 mins left in OT- L 81-84

2016-17
- Murray State 7 pt lead 3:23 to go (2PT lead 38 secs left)- L 70-73
-TCU - 7 pt second half lead - 1 pt lead w 2min to go - L 71-80
-Tulsa 7 pt lead with 5 mins to go - L 68-70
-San Fran - 4pt 2nd half lead - L 58-66
- UCF NIT - up 36-23 at half - L 63-62

2017-18
Charleston Southern - 2pt lead w 1 min left - L 62-64
SIU - 14 pt lead with 7:50 to go - L 70-74


2018-19
Valpo - 10 pt lead 2 min - 6 pt lead 1 min - L 56-58
Mo State - Up5 with 13 secs left - L 65-66

2019-20
UCF - up 9 at half - up 6 with 3 to go - up 1 with 50 seconds left - L 65-67
Cincy - up 3 at half - up 10 with 7:48 to go - up 6 with 3 to go - up 1 with 20 seconds to go - L 65-66
Bradley - up 2 at half - L 63-75
SIU - Up 6 at half - up 3 with 6:44 left - L 55-58
Valpo - up 17 at half - up 5 with 6 to go - up 4 with 2 min left - L 62-65
Loyola -up 4 at half - up 1 w 13:54 to go - L 84-69

Got to add another one to the list tonight.

Eater Illinois just outscored Murray Sate 40 - 10 to end the game and erased a 27 point deficit!!

 

[Redbird222]

How many halftime leads has Muller blown in his career? It's gotta be more than most coaches at this stage of their career.

2012-13 -
- Northwestern - 10 point 2nd half lead - L 69-72
- Louisville - 8 pt halftime lead - L 66-69
- Wyoming - 19 pt lead 2nd half - L 81-67
- Wichita State - 10 pt lead with 6:41 left - L 68-67

2013-14
-Vermont - 18 pt 1st half lead - L 76-87
-Missouri State - 10 pt half time lead, 12 pt lead with 13 mins to go- L 70-78
-SIU - 2 pt lead with 29 secs - L 65-66

2014-15
-Utah State - 8 pt second half lead - L 55-60
-Indiana State - 3 pt lead with 3 to go - L 70-71
-UNI - 12 pt lead with 10 mins to go - L 53-54
- SIU - 2 pt lead with 1:37 to go - L 59-65
-UNI - MVC Tourney 14 pt halftime lead - L 60-69

2015-16
-Maryland - 5pt lead w 7 mins to go - L 66-77
- SIU - 12 point 2nd half lead - L 78-81
- Mo State - 6pt lead 46 seconds left in regulation - 4 pt lead 2 mins left in OT- L 81-84

2016-17
- Murray State 7 pt lead 3:23 to go (2PT lead 38 secs left)- L 70-73
-TCU - 7 pt second half lead - 1 pt lead w 2min to go - L 71-80
-Tulsa 7 pt lead with 5 mins to go - L 68-70
-San Fran - 4pt 2nd half lead - L 58-66
- UCF NIT - up 36-23 at half - L 63-62

2017-18
Charleston Southern - 2pt lead w 1 min left - L 62-64
SIU - 14 pt lead with 7:50 to go - L 70-74


2018-19
Valpo - 10 pt lead 2 min - 6 pt lead 1 min - L 56-58
Mo State - Up5 with 13 secs left - L 65-66

2019-20
UCF - up 9 at half - up 6 with 3 to go - up 1 with 50 seconds left - L 65-67
Cincy - up 3 at half - up 10 with 7:48 to go - up 6 with 3 to go - up 1 with 20 seconds to go - L 65-66
Bradley - up 2 at half - L 63-75
SIU - Up 6 at half - up 3 with 6:44 left - L 55-58
Valpo - up 17 at half - up 5 with 6 to go - up 4 with 2 min left - L 62-65
Loyola -up 4 at half - up 1 w 13:54 to go - L 84-69

Got to add another one to the list tonight.

Eatern Illinois outscored Murray Sate 40 - 10 to end the game and erased a 27 point deficit!!

 

[cubird]

Boyd was 3 star!

 

[jamminjamarsmiley]

How many 5 star players have ever come to ISU? I am excited for the players that are coming in. As a fan you should be as well. Thumbs up to you knocking kids that have not even stepped foot on our court yet. This season has been by far the worst in recent memory but why make negative comments about two of our freshman or incoming kids? I get you are mad about Dan and the administration you have made that very clear, and some of your points I do agree with but knocking the players is a low blow.

I am not knocking any players - it was a knock on the fans who spew that sort of stuff.

I am not excited about the incoming class - nor do I think they will be terrible. None of them had a P5 offer or even legitimate consideration from what I can tell. So no, I am not excited. However, I haven't seen any of them play in a college basketball game, so I wont write them off.

Would you take Marcus Domask on this team? How about Elijah Childs?

Just a couple of Valley studs that had ZERO P5 offers. Stop focusing on the offers they get. It's silly.

No one isu is bringing in has the accolades of Domask or Childs, so let’s not go there.

Dan has signed players with some injury concerns. Likely a reason they’re under the radar players. Like I said, they may work out however I’m not sitting here thinking any of them are program changing players.

Excuse me for not jumping aboard the hype train before these guys set foot on a college basketball court. Highlight reels can be quite deceiving.