TIMMY
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Again a run is the right call. 100%. But not out of 10 personnel. It's not what it's how.
Fire Brock Spack
- Thread starter Redbird
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Play a team that plays no defense?
RedbirdSoxFan
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Rochester had Peoria in a running clock (40-0) one possession into the 2nd half, maybe NCHS needs to work on their defense
Reggie Redbird
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Spack will not be fired. His contract will run out, or he will retire. The department does not have the funds to make a move nor would a 1st-year interim AD make this move.
Someone can correct me, but I believe Spack’s contract runs out after 2024? With our performance as of late, there will be a very tough call to make, barring a retirement.
Spack has done the most for our program. He will be an ISU HOF coach, for sure. However, even Nick Saban and Bill Belichik will reach a time where a change is made. The question will be an internal replacement option vs an external one. There are likely to be good ones on both sides, including external ones who were previously assistants.
Someone can correct me, but I believe Spack’s contract runs out after 2024? With our performance as of late, there will be a very tough call to make, barring a retirement.
Spack has done the most for our program. He will be an ISU HOF coach, for sure. However, even Nick Saban and Bill Belichik will reach a time where a change is made. The question will be an internal replacement option vs an external one. There are likely to be good ones on both sides, including external ones who were previously assistants.
Through the 2025 season
TBS_20
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All of this is just sad and embarrassing for ISU
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I have been ringing this bell for a couple years. This man needs to go. I know they will let him run out his contract but his career is done here. We are the very definition of mediocre all while having the “stability” of the same coach for 15 years.
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Just now getting around to reminding everyone I called this back on 9/17 and have been asking for HCBS to be gone since 2021. You can check my content. I know that we won't fire him with 1 season left, and I understand why that is, but if you don't see this situation for what it is NOW then you never will. This team is stuck in purgatory.
topiarydan
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We got snakebit - we lose our QB1 going into the 13th ranked UND on road and special teams bites us in ass. We win that game and we're the 6th team in (not UND). We play in the toughtest conference. We compete with tons of schools in Illinois and surrounding area for kids and more importantly we have little historical tradition and no f'ing NIL money to toss around and we get our best kids poached. So gimme a break. Spack is doing the best he can - he's our coach next year
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- #73
snakebit the last 8 seasons then?!?!
Two questions for you.
1) What is the winning percentage for Illinois State University Football over the last 50 years?
2) What was the most successful season in the last 50 years?
ChiRedbirdfan
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sorry TR...two completely irrelevant questions and such a low bar
why....our football funding and focus is different...we have better facilities now and have had some success in last 15 years. ... we are different, leagues are different, competition is different...etc.
isu was awful way back when...why would we now want that to be a measuring stick of success?
sorry CRBF...you failed to answer either question and yes, the questions are relevant.
Yes football funding, focus and facilities have changed. But they've changed for other schools as well. It's an arms race. As Illinois State has improved so have others. On a relative basis things haven't changed much. When Brock Spack began in 2009, Hancock had not been improved. The old version was pathetic by D-I standards. In 2009, N. Iowa had the UNI-Dome, Youngstown St. had Stambaugh Stadium and Missouri St. had Plaster Stadium. Have you been to those stadiums? I've been to all 3 and each one was far superior to Hancock before the 2013 renovation.
But then we did gain ground on our peers with the 2013 renovation and what happened?
Redbird Football went 13-2 in 2014-15. I don't think we get Tre Roberson to transfer here from Indiana without the renovated stadium. Coach Brock Spack proved that he is capable of producing a National Championship contender, but after that things began to fall off. That's not surprising. We had just pulled ourselves forward in the facilities race but other teams didn't stand still. Consider the #1 and #2 seeds in this year's FCS Playoffs. South Dakota St. is #1. As nice as Hancock 2.0 is, their stadium is even nicer and the SDSU indoor practice facility is a larger permanent structure. #2 Montana is in the process of building a "state of the art" indoor practice facility. It's a bubble. But it will be a very nice one with offices attached. When it is completed, they will be well ahead of the Redbirds in football facilities. Their stadium is larger and more impressive and so is their locker room. Check out their locker room in the Washington-Grizzly Champions Center.
Washington-Grizzly Champions Center - Facilities - University of Montana Athletics
Washington-Grizzly Champions Center. The official facility page for the Montana Grizzlies
We took another leap forward with the addition of the IPF. Let's see what Coach Brock Spack can do with the extra recruiting leverage. Will it have the same impact as Hancock 2.0? We'll see. But we also know that other schools are not standing still. South Dakota St. and Montana are ahead of us, and they aren't alone. As time goes by Illinois St. will drift back to the middle and possibly lower middle, if enough time passes.
It has ALWAYS been that way. Illinois St. has always had middling facilities and fan support compared to our competition. That's why the last 50 years are relevant. Not much has changed. If the facilities and fans are mid-range, is it fair to expect the coaching to produce a record that isn't? Over the last 50 years AD's have come and gone, coaches have come and gone, players have come and gone. Some were really good, and some weren't. The good ones have winning records to show for it, which is above the long-term average. But you know what hasn't changed? - the fan support and facilities have always been mid-range. Right now the facilities are upper mid-range. Let's see what happens this recruiting season and in 2024.
Our football program doesn't even have a dedicated weightlifting facility. They have to go over to the basketball stadium to use theirs. The bubble is nice, but we've still got a long way to go to have top of the class facilities in FCS let alone bottom tier in FBS.
fourthandshort
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fourthandshort
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And quite the opposite of last year coming into this year, when we had serious concerns in all 3 phases of game coming out of last year .. even while hopeful. Many of us worried if:
1. defense would get rebuilt after great 2022 season - it took longer than needed, but it looks very promising right now. We outplayed #14 team on their home field where theyve gone like 35-2 in last 4 seasons, only losing to eventual champs NDSU and SDSU. If not for kicking game, that is game we should have won. We certainly outplayed them same or better as Sacramento.
2. offense would come together or not after very inconsistent and lethargic 2022 - some of us saw promise last season, but too many injuries to RBs and OL. Plus the pass game never seemed to click for long, but saw some halves and one full game of very strong passing. This year exceed even my highest hopes ... just wish they didn't rely as much on short passes and YAC. But the rest of the pass game exceed my high hopes.
3. kicking game would settle down to and not lose games - it actually started slow, but settled it just fine, even pretty good. Until last few weeks, esp UND. This remains a concern.
But sitting here right now, putting on my rational businessowner hat or AD hat .. this is now a playoff team in 2024. Why would I fire my head coach with 2 years on his contract. It would make no rational business sense to do so.
I honestly think TBS et al would be disappointed if our Redbirds made a quarterfinal+ run next season. Because their biggest worry isn't really Redbirds winning or losing. It's would be they extend Spack's contract. They will say that isn't true, but their posts scream otherwise.
p.s. and virtually noone said this coming into 2023 season .. most of us had similar concerns in all 3 phases of game. And I liked Annexstad all along, but had my doubts it would come together ... though I definitely saw the potential ... was wrong last year, was right this year.
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ChiRedbirdfan
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Nice post TR! I appreciate the time and perspective. Waiting at an airport so I too have some time. I agree 100 percent with many of your comments and thoughts. I guess where we begin to the differ is where we go from here. I believe it is a time for a football hc change which is secondary to the university side doing a deep dive analysis of what type of return the university side receives from the ISU athletic department. So yea maybe waiting until the bigger picture is figured out before a head coaching change makes sense.sorry CRBF...you failed to answer either question and yes, the questions are relevant.
Yes football funding, focus and facilities have changed. But they've changed for other schools as well. It's an arms race. As Illinois State has improved so have others. On a relative basis things haven't changed much. When Brock Spack began in 2009, Hancock had not been improved. The old version was pathetic by D-I standards. In 2009, N. Iowa had the UNI-Dome, Youngstown St. had Stambaugh Stadium and Missouri St. had Plaster Stadium. Have you been to those stadiums? I've been to all 3 and each one was far superior to Hancock before the 2013 renovation.
But then we did gain ground on our peers with the 2013 renovation and what happened?
Redbird Football went 13-2 in 2014-15. I don't think we get Tre Roberson to transfer here from Indiana without the renovated stadium. Coach Brock Spack proved that he is capable of producing a National Championship contender, but after that things began to fall off. That's not surprising. We had just pulled ourselves forward in the facilities race but other teams didn't stand still. Consider the #1 and #2 seeds in this year's FCS Playoffs. South Dakota St. is #1. As nice as Hancock 2.0 is, their stadium is even nicer and the SDSU indoor practice facility is a larger permanent structure. #2 Montana is in the process of building a "state of the art" indoor practice facility. It's a bubble. But it will be a very nice one with offices attached. When it is completed, they will be well ahead of the Redbirds in football facilities. Their stadium is larger and more impressive and so is their locker room. Check out their locker room in the Washington-Grizzly Champions Center.
Washington-Grizzly Champions Center - Facilities - University of Montana Athletics
Washington-Grizzly Champions Center. The official facility page for the Montana Grizzliesgogriz.com
We took another leap forward with the addition of the IPF. Let's see what Coach Brock Spack can do with the extra recruiting leverage. Will it have the same impact as Hancock 2.0? We'll see. But we also know that other schools are not standing still. South Dakota St. and Montana are ahead of us, and they aren't alone. As time goes by Illinois St. will drift back to the middle and possibly lower middle, if enough time passes.
It has ALWAYS been that way. Illinois St. has always had middling facilities and fan support compared to our competition. That's why the last 50 years are relevant. Not much has changed. If the facilities and fans are mid-range, is it fair to expect the coaching to produce a record that isn't? Over the last 50 years AD's have come and gone, coaches have come and gone, players have come and gone. Some were really good, and some weren't. The good ones have winning records to show for it, which is above the long-term average. But you know what hasn't changed? - the fan support and facilities have always been mid-range. Right now the facilities are upper mid-range. Let's see what happens this recruiting season and in 2024.
Onto the bigger picture..Please note that I think it is important to keep a clear distinction between ILLINOIS STATE UNIVERSITY (Isu) and the illinois state REDBIRD ATHLETIC DEPARTMENT (RAD) for purposes of this discussion as we need to remember that RAD should be serving the interest of ISU and their students/alums. The university side benefits most from athletics when their name is in the news…even being in the news as a loser in a sporting event far outweighs no sporting news coverage at all. Obviously being in the news as a winner has a huge impact on the university side. There is plenty of research and articles that discuss the benefit of university athletic departments as respect to benefiting the university side. Nearly all of the benefit is derived from the value of the advertising/name recognition when the athletic department’s teams (esp football) are in the news. It drives increased awareness of the university that drives increased applicants that drives higher admission standards that drives higher rankings that circles back around to driver more applicants ..etc. all of that can help drive long term enrollment growth which should make the university more affordable and its community more prosperous and desirable. It drives increased donations to both the university side and the athletic department side. The name recognition drives interest in naming rights for facilities. Hancock field has basically no value for naming rights as the only people that see the place are the fans that attend and peeps that drive by the stadium. ISU needs press from RAD and currently there is very little press for many reasons. We need meaningful tv exposure and we get so little.
All that said I believe the foundation of Isu and RAD is REALLY REALLY good and there is an opportunity for meaningful long term growth that we would all be proud of and want to participate in. But you are right we need to invest in and/OR better manage our RAD strategy/allocation of resources. We can not keep the current RAD strategy as RAD is falling way short of what they have the ability to return to ISU in terms of exposure. There are so many moving long term and short term intertwined pieces that we could go on and on about what is needed. These include fixing our split conf affiliation, gauging student/alumni interest, optimizing the right mix of sports offered (currently have 19), maximizing revenue, determine facility needs, how do we fund,…etc
I do believe that ISU, with the new FBS requirements, is actually a lot closer to fbs than we have ever been (that said with zero knowledge of fbs conf interest in Isu) as it appears we are basically there with number of sports offered / scholarships offered. But big changes would be needed and it all starts with strong interested leadership doing the deep dive analysis vs continuing to purely administer what we have….which appears to be what has happened post Bowan/plane crash and looks like is continuing from our current interim a.d., although that is understandable. As an aside please remember i am talking long term changes and I get that some of these items could take many many years to accomplish and again need strong leadership to initiate the process.
Last couple of comments…you mentioned facility needs and so did another poster, who specifically football weight facilities. I believe our football stadium is more than respectable for fcs/or a start to fbs (if we can get there) and we now have the bubble which is more than adequate for practice. However for recruiting and long term football success I firmly believe ISU/RAD should top prioritize a DEDICATED state of the art FOOTBALL ONLY locker room and weight training facility. State of the art meaning as respects to what is state of the art for a group 5 fbs program. The stadium image is nice for fans but the players live year around in the weight room and locker room and that is a huge recruiting edge. The football players/team have by far the most significant upside to ISU so get them a dedicated damn locker room/weight training so we can recruit/compete. It is shocking that we do not have a separate weight facility for the football program (even fcs) yet in the last twenty years someone decided to spend money to upgrade the baseball facility (which is likely not cheap to annually maintain). I am not against baseball but having a solid baseball program will basically do nothing for ISU as college baseball gets virtually little coverage unless you are a top 10-15 program (even then likely 95% of sports fans have zero interest in college baseball). I guess my view (and I know others may have a different view) is if students/alums basically dont follow baseball and it basically does not have the ability to get media attention for ISU what’s the point of RAD spending money on that type of athletic program? Spend the money where you at least have a shot at get something back. Someone please correct me if you think I am missing something.
On another note I thought it was interesting that Bowlsby is taking the interim UNI ad job to help analyze their situation and see how he can help. Certainly a nice way to go back to your roots and try to give back. He is seriously a big time college/conference athletic administer and I wish Isu could be as fortunate to have someone of his ilk take a peak at ISU/RAD strategy.
Enough.. I really like Isu athletics and believe they have so much more to accomplish. The soon approaching decade (post 2014 fcs football season) of RAD performance and lack of direction is really frustrating to me. Hence the long rant.
LETS GO!!
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