24 Hrs Later

[Birdfriend72]

I only care about us getting better and bringing in stronger and stronger players.

We are 0-6 in Valley title games in the past 10 or 11 years. And the past couple times we have made it to the championship game it was not competitive.

As far as I know Chastain isn’t even on scholarship, so Muller really hasn’t even taken on any risk yet.

I hope he turns out to be our best player. It would probably help make the arena more than half full.

I hope his knee Heels.

I hope he can dribble with his left hand.

I hope. I hope. I hope.

I want to get to.

I know. I know. I know.

You take one look at a kid like Townes. I know. One look at a freshman like Krutwig. I know. One look at a kid like Williamson. I know.

Muller is constantly in I hope mode with half the team. And 80% of this board is complicit to that approach.

The amount of occasions where people on this board defend ISU is 100% not in line with what we have achieved.

And I am getting beat up on “facts” by Sargent Hulka and CPacmel, who want to “change the conversation.”

It is pathetic.

You hit the nail on the head. Muller has recruited a very inconsistent roster outside of 3 players. Now Chastain is the next big time player. I hope he is. With Mullers track record, only one thing is certain...and that's 2-3 players should be leaving the program. I don't care that someone leaves...as long as we continue to improve.

 

[jbird]

We are all frustrated about the close-but-no-cigar finishes in the Valley Tournament, but to use 0-6 as an indicator that we are not getting talent is flawed logic. 0-6 during a regular season would be a measure of futility, but 0-6 in championship games means that our talent got us to where eight other conference teams could not get........and those years include some in which Creighton and/or Wichita State were playing at Scottrade Center.

jbird I respectfully disagree. In many of those games, we were blown out and humiliated (they were not close but no cigars because they were not close). And comparing us only to the 8 other teams with no talent is not the right way to benchmark talent. And throwing out Wichita and Creighton is the exact opposite of who we should be comparing our talent against. We should only compare our talent against the best teams (in our league and in other similar leagues).

The transfer rule has screwed us a couple times and that hurt really badly. I will concede that. It has also helped us too (Yarbrough, Champ, others). Muller seems to finally be getting that under control (fingers crossed). Losing Torrey Ward was a major blow. Losing Yaklich was another big blow. Feels like we are getting good new assistants in. Bottom line is we cannot be satisfied. SIU and Bradley are 1-2 players away from putting us in 4th place next year if we do nothing (Fan 1 pointed this out earlier).

Was the Wichita State team that we beat in the semis when they were ranked in the Top Ten nationally one of "8 other teams with no talent"?

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

I only care about us getting better and bringing in stronger and stronger players.

We are 0-6 in Valley title games in the past 10 or 11 years. And the past couple times we have made it to the championship game it was not competitive.

As far as I know Chastain isn’t even on scholarship, so Muller really hasn’t even taken on any risk yet.

I hope he turns out to be our best player. It would probably help make the arena more than half full.

I hope his knee Heels.

I hope he can dribble with his left hand.

I hope. I hope. I hope.

I want to get to.

I know. I know. I know.

You take one look at a kid like Townes. I know. One look at a freshman like Krutwig. I know. One look at a kid like Williamson. I know.

Muller is constantly in I hope mode with half the team. And 80% of this board is complicit to that approach.

The amount of occasions where people on this board defend ISU is 100% not in line with what we have achieved.

And I am getting beat up on “facts” by Sargent Hulka and CPacmel, who want to “change the conversation.”

It is pathetic.

You hit the nail on the head. Muller has recruited a very inconsistent roster outside of 3 players. Now Chastain is the next big time player. I hope he is. With Mullers track record, only one thing is certain...and that's 2-3 players should be leaving the program. I don't care that someone leaves...as long as we continue to improve.

Agree the key is to improve the roster via adding more than is leaving for whatever reason. As stated previously if ISU has 2 players transfer this year that is the average for Div1. We should all expect some transfers (2) to be the norm and not an alarm unless ISU is averaging significantly more transfers than the norm over an extended period of time. Transfer bug is biting everyone...I am hearing of a likely Big Ten graduate transfer (if he does not make the NBA) that is going to rock the alumni egos big time when/if it happens.

 

[Joe_Y]

I give up, I guess you know better than the coach. Where do we sign you up to lead us to the tourney since you can evaluate talent better than 4 guys who are paid to. Also tell us your strategy to get a steady stream of 3+ star recruits.

 

[Birdfriend72]

I only care about us getting better and bringing in stronger and stronger players.

We are 0-6 in Valley title games in the past 10 or 11 years. And the past couple times we have made it to the championship game it was not competitive.

As far as I know Chastain isn’t even on scholarship, so Muller really hasn’t even taken on any risk yet.

I hope he turns out to be our best player. It would probably help make the arena more than half full.

I hope his knee Heels.

I hope he can dribble with his left hand.

I hope. I hope. I hope.

I want to get to.

I know. I know. I know.

You take one look at a kid like Townes. I know. One look at a freshman like Krutwig. I know. One look at a kid like Williamson. I know.

Muller is constantly in I hope mode with half the team. And 80% of this board is complicit to that approach.

The amount of occasions where people on this board defend ISU is 100% not in line with what we have achieved.

And I am getting beat up on “facts” by Sargent Hulka and CPacmel, who want to “change the conversation.”

It is pathetic.

You hit the nail on the head. Muller has recruited a very inconsistent roster outside of 3 players. Now Chastain is the next big time player. I hope he is. With Mullers track record, only one thing is certain...and that's 2-3 players should be leaving the program. I don't care that someone leaves...as long as we continue to improve.

Agree they key is to improve the roster via adding more than is leaving for whatever reason. As stated previously if ISU has 2 players transfer this year that is the average for Div1. We should all expect some transfers (2) to be the norm and not an alarm unless ISU is averaging significantly more transfers than the norm over an extended period of time. Transfer bug is biting everyone...I am hearing of a likely Big Ten graduate transfer (if he does not make the NBA) that is going to rock the alumni egos big time when/if it happens.

If you take Mullers first year on the job...he has more defections than any coach in the Valley. It's one thing to lose players that can't compete at this level...it's another to lose players with the skill to be all conference. We can make excuses for him all we want...but the results don't lie. Some will argue he had a great season last year, or that he hasn't had a losing record. The Valley has changed now. I imagine he will have a more difficult time finding the 3 star recruits.

 

[Redbrd1]

Matt Chastain could show up on this board and post as "Matt Chastain" and tell V Boy that he left because he didn't want to be in Chicago and wanted to be closer to home and it wouldn't be enough proof.

C'est la vie.

I don’t think that counts for much.

Now if Porter Moser came on... different story. But fact remains he may be a bench upgrade... but that’s it. He’s not a starter and will not elevate us enough to get to the NCAA.

Now I’m not saying we won’t get there next year, maybe Copeland is the real deal and his 3pt shooting with MYs passing and driving ability will be enough but I still think we need a PG

 

[Redbrd1]

I only care about us getting better and bringing in stronger and stronger players.

We are 0-6 in Valley title games in the past 10 or 11 years. And the past couple times we have made it to the championship game it was not competitive.

As far as I know Chastain isn’t even on scholarship, so Muller really hasn’t even taken on any risk yet.

I hope he turns out to be our best player. It would probably help make the arena more than half full.

I hope his knee Heels.

I hope he can dribble with his left hand.

I hope. I hope. I hope.

I want to get to.

I know. I know. I know.

You take one look at a kid like Townes. I know. One look at a freshman like Krutwig. I know. One look at a kid like Williamson. I know.

Muller is constantly in I hope mode with half the team. And 80% of this board is complicit to that approach.

The amount of occasions where people on this board defend ISU is 100% not in line with what we have achieved.

And I am getting beat up on “facts” by Sargent Hulka and CPacmel, who want to “change the conversation.”

It is pathetic.

You hit the nail on the head. Muller has recruited a very inconsistent roster outside of 3 players. Now Chastain is the next big time player. I hope he is. With Mullers track record, only one thing is certain...and that's 2-3 players should be leaving the program. I don't care that someone leaves...as long as we continue to improve.

Agree the key is to improve the roster via adding more than is leaving for whatever reason. As stated previously if ISU has 2 players transfer this year that is the average for Div1. We should all expect some transfers (2) to be the norm and not an alarm unless ISU is averaging significantly more transfers than the norm over an extended period of time. Transfer bug is biting everyone...I am hearing of a likely Big Ten graduate transfer (if he does not make the NBA) that is going to rock the alumni egos big time when/if it happens.

Coming to ISU?

 

[bb fan]

Of course I worry who reads this forum, VBoy. The very players you put out false info about may be reading. Recruits and their families read forums like this. I know of players in the past that have told me they read. Several others here have expressed the same concern.

We have a whole subject here about a fan at Arch Madness that made us look bad. How is this forum any different? If you are not concerned, you should be. But it's clear you are not by the way you post. That says a lot about you. I will always be concerned about how our university is represented in any public way.

 

[Redbrd1]

Here's a thought that hit me this morning and has me chuckling, thinking about the response of some of us here at Redbirdfan.

Brace yourselves. Here it comes.

What if Matt Hein...gets better?? As in the same kind of improvement he experienced from last year to this year??

He could then transfer to Division II West Florida College and be a two year starter ( if they agree to take David N'diaye as a package)

:clap: :clap:

 

[Redbrd1]

We are all frustrated about the close-but-no-cigar finishes in the Valley Tournament, but to use 0-6 as an indicator that we are not getting talent is flawed logic. 0-6 during a regular season would be a measure of futility, but 0-6 in championship games means that our talent got us to where eight other conference teams could not get........and those years include some in which Creighton and/or Wichita State were playing at Scottrade Center.

jbird I respectfully disagree. In many of those games, we were blown out and humiliated (they were not close but no cigars because they were not close). And comparing us only to the 8 other teams with no talent is not the right way to benchmark talent. And throwing out Wichita and Creighton is the exact opposite of who we should be comparing our talent against. We should only compare our talent against the best teams (in our league and in other similar leagues).

The transfer rule has screwed us a couple times and that hurt really badly. I will concede that. It has also helped us too (Yarbrough, Champ, others). Muller seems to finally be getting that under control (fingers crossed). Losing Torrey Ward was a major blow. Losing Yaklich was another big blow. Feels like we are getting good new assistants in. Bottom line is we cannot be satisfied. SIU and Bradley are 1-2 players away from putting us in 4th place next year if we do nothing (Fan 1 pointed this out earlier).

This is what concerns me. Now that this league has no powerhouses (although maybe Loyola will take that title) you could go from 2nd to 7th real quick. Geez just two weeks ago we were talking about avoiding Thursday.

 

[Redbrd1]

I get on here, and this is still going on? Honestly, with all difference to the fine job Quinnie does here, this site is less and less fun everyday with stuff like this. Someone else described it a "glass half full" posters. I am not sure they even have that much in the glass. We have people going out of their way, making stuff up to put down our players, coaches and teams. It's not only wrong, bad information, but just mean spirited. I don't know that I have ever seen anything quite like it. Especially on a partisan fan board.

And some forget what Timmy posted yesterday. There seems to be no regard at all by some posters for the people they are posting about. These are 18 - 22 year old youngsters. Figuring out life. going to school, trying to be good people and good student athletes. They are the face of our program. But at Timmy said, we have adults hiding behind screen names throwing out disparaging stuff about these kids. Even in the face of overwhelming information to the contrary, they go on disparaging.

I guess, in this case, I should take some solice. For everything VBoy is saying, and looking at this posters' track record, Chastain may very well be Valley POY in a couple of years. Anyhow, if you are reading this, please don't take any of this seriously, Matt. Keep working hard. You have represented our university well already, and I know you will continue to. Pay no attention to the adults hiding behind screen names here.

My only concern is that he's trending toward a possible man bun.

:hand: NO!

 

[ekeyfanclub]

Matt Chastain could show up on this board and post as "Matt Chastain" and tell V Boy that he left because he didn't want to be in Chicago and wanted to be closer to home and it wouldn't be enough proof.

C'est la vie.

I don’t think that counts for much.

Now if Porter Moser came on... different story. But fact remains he may be a bench upgrade... but that’s it. He’s not a starter and will not elevate us enough to get to the NCAA.

Now I’m not saying we won’t get there next year, maybe Copeland is the real deal and his 3pt shooting with MYs passing and driving ability will be enough but I still think we need a PG

I am sorry but how is any of that fact? How can we know if he will or will not be a starter or if he will or not help us make the tourney?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[ISU FAN 1]

VBoy, you are getting beat up because of the "fact" that you posted that Chastain was "let go", which was nothing but an unfounded, untrue, bogus, very hurtful rumor.

You have a consistent track record of being just plain WRONG. It just seems that you are one of the posters here that defaults, always to whatever the program does, how good our players and coaches are is just plain bad. We must be the worst. And anybody that says anything different does not get it. "Gee, if Matt Chastain left Loyola, they must have not wanted him. That's the only way a lowly place like Illinois State would get him". Sorry, I just SMH at some of the stuff that posted like that, but I get why several are calling you out on this one.

I know our program is not all sunshine and lollipops. We struggle with a lot of stuff. There is a thread here about an embarrasing fan at Arch Madness. I am getting to the point where our forum here feels kind of like that sometimes.

The fact that you interpret my posts this way says a lot. But my expectations were low. I don't get any insight on ISU hoops or anything related to college basketball in general from your posts. What I get is a focus on nit-picking for the sake of making arguments (which you excel at) rather than engaging in any type of substantive discussion about how to improve the program. You value being positive over winning, as if a rising tide of positivity will lift all boats. Newsflash. It won't. What lifts the boat are better players. Loyola has a lot of them. We have a few. We need more in order to dominate.

You are also categorically wrong about my history of posting on this board. I think if you go back to any time an ISU team got hot and prospects were up (end of Nic Moore's freshman year, mid-to-late last year, and a handful of other occasions over the past 15 or so years), you will find that I have been very positive and complimentary to the coaching staff and team as relates to our performance. But, frankly, there just hasn't been that much to celebrate. When it's time to celebrate, I will. Then maybe I'll get to feel like you every time we win a home game against Quincy.

You are about to get foe’d

 

[Hamdonger]

Matt Chastain could show up on this board and post as "Matt Chastain" and tell V Boy that he left because he didn't want to be in Chicago and wanted to be closer to home and it wouldn't be enough proof.

C'est la vie.

I don’t think that counts for much.

Now if Porter Moser came on... different story. But fact remains he may be a bench upgrade... but that’s it. He’s not a starter and will not elevate us enough to get to the NCAA.

Now I’m not saying we won’t get there next year, maybe Copeland is the real deal and his 3pt shooting with MYs passing and driving ability will be enough but I still think we need a PG

Copeland handled the ball primarily at 'Frisco. Stating the obvious - Copeland and Evans will be our starting guards.

 

[CaliRdBrd]

I only care about us getting better and bringing in stronger and stronger players.

We are 0-6 in Valley title games in the past 10 or 11 years. And the past couple times we have made it to the championship game it was not competitive.

As far as I know Chastain isn’t even on scholarship, so Muller really hasn’t even taken on any risk yet.

I hope he turns out to be our best player. It would probably help make the arena more than half full.

I hope his knee Heels.

I hope he can dribble with his left hand.

I hope. I hope. I hope.

I want to get to.

I know. I know. I know.

You take one look at a kid like Townes. I know. One look at a freshman like Krutwig. I know. One look at a kid like Williamson. I know.

Muller is constantly in I hope mode with half the team. And 80% of this board is complicit to that approach.

The amount of occasions where people on this board defend ISU is 100% not in line with what we have achieved.

And I am getting beat up on “facts” by Sargent Hulka and CPacmel, who want to “change the conversation.”

It is pathetic.

You hit the nail on the head. Muller has recruited a very inconsistent roster outside of 3 players. Now Chastain is the next big time player. I hope he is. With Mullers track record, only one thing is certain...and that's 2-3 players should be leaving the program. I don't care that someone leaves...as long as we continue to improve.

Agree the key is to improve the roster via adding more than is leaving for whatever reason. As stated previously if ISU has 2 players transfer this year that is the average for Div1. We should all expect some transfers (2) to be the norm and not an alarm unless ISU is averaging significantly more transfers than the norm over an extended period of time. Transfer bug is biting everyone...I am hearing of a likely Big Ten graduate transfer (if he does not make the NBA) that is going to rock the alumni egos big time when/if it happens.

The difference with transfers from P5 schools is those dudes are pretty much end-of-the-bench guys that will not see the floor.
The players that mid-majors are losing are starters that go to P5 programs to increase their visibility.
It’s simply not the same argument.

 

[Redbrd1]

Matt Chastain could show up on this board and post as "Matt Chastain" and tell V Boy that he left because he didn't want to be in Chicago and wanted to be closer to home and it wouldn't be enough proof.

C'est la vie.

I don’t think that counts for much.

Now if Porter Moser came on... different story. But fact remains he may be a bench upgrade... but that’s it. He’s not a starter and will not elevate us enough to get to the NCAA.

Now I’m not saying we won’t get there next year, maybe Copeland is the real deal and his 3pt shooting with MYs passing and driving ability will be enough but I still think we need a PG

Copeland handled the ball primarily at 'Frisco. Stating the obvious - Copeland and Evans will be our starting guards.

I hope you’re right. I want us to punch our NCAA ticket ASAP! But I believe we need a true PG. From the numbers it looks like Copeland might be better at the 2.

 

[Brick]

Regarding the previous comments about “hope”. When you are a mid major hope is a large part of your program. You don’t get three or four star recruits as a general rule. So you HOPE you find some diamonds in the rough and they develop into good players. Most won’t walk on campus and be polished players. So you hope you find a kid like Fayne who gets better all the time and is now a really good player. When you are forced to recruit players like that some are simply gonna be misses! So no one will really know about a player like Chastain until he
Puts on the uniform for real. All the he said they said is merely guessing! Unless you happen to be his coach and see him every day. I think Copeland is the real deal given his pedigree but until we see him on Doug Collins Court we don’t know. What we DO know is Dan flat out said they were hard nosed players. Good enough for me and all this speculation doesn’t mean much til next November

 

[normalguy79]

:text-+1: :text-+1: :text-+1:

Regarding the previous comments about “hope”. When you are a mid major hope is a large part of your program. You don’t get three or four star recruits as a general rule. So you HOPE you find some diamonds in the rough and they develop into good players. Most won’t walk on campus and be polished players. So you hope you find a kid like Fayne who gets better all the time and is now a really good player. When you are forced to recruit players like that some are simply gonna be misses! So no one will really know about a player like Chastain until he
Puts on the uniform for real. All the he said they said is merely guessing! Unless you happen to be his coach and see him every day. I think Copeland is the real deal given his pedigree but until we see him on Doug Collins Court we don’t know. What we DO know is Dan flat out said they were hard nosed players. Good enough for me and all this speculation doesn’t mean much til next November

 

[ISU FAN 1]

I think a reasonable ceiling goal for a mid major like ISU is a Sweet 16. I think we need at least 7 legit D1 players to get there. Some on this board seem to think a player’s senior year is the only one we should expect a payoff. That’s likely never going to happen, having 7 stud seniors. So we need underclassmen participation. After the 7 legits, that leaves 6 spots for projects, unknowns, and busts. This roster is overstocked in those categories, and don’t think Dan would deny this is one of his weaker rosters. We need projects to develop, unknowns to emerge, busts to be purged, and fill those holes based on obvious needs. Like point guard. We have 3 legits, and Tinsley is knocking on the door. Not sure who the other 3 are, or if they are even on the roster. But Dan needs to invert the roster that is too bottom heavy on projects.

 

[Bird Friend]

This is what I am talking about. You are worried about who is reading our forum. What on earth could you possibly be worried about? That some of the people on this board actually care so much that they would be pissed off about us constantly losing big games or make suggestions about how we need to improve the program.....and that the tone of those posts are not rainbow-ey enough for you? For the love of..... Act like you belong. Quit acting like this is Lincolnland junior college.

Throwing it back at you, why do people have to be pissed off enough for you to consider them to care enough? What does being pissed off have to do with caring? I've seen a lot of people affect change because they care, but without being pissed off.

The only thing I see you valuing is trying to win the higher ground on minutia issues in front of our 250-person audience. And then you try to shame the "enemy" of ISU hoops fans by nit-picking instead of engaging in bigger issues. Where did you learn this stuff? Are you on Facebook a lot arguing with people?

What irony! Bigger issues? You want him to talk about bigger issues? It's a freakin' game. In the grand scheme of things basketball isn't evan a pimple on an elephant's ass.

V Boy, I will say you are a much different poster than when you started posting on RBF. I have found you to be much more level-headed and objective about your observations, and much more optimistic than from when you started.

But you've gone a bit off the rail in this thread.