Western Michigan hunting expedition

Dmills

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I didn't see much of the second half, but Hickox played in the first half and looked at least okay, if not good. Did he see more time in the second half? Got credit for only 1 tackle. Agree that the interior looked pretty good. And our LB's led the team in tackles, so hard to question the effort there.
I thought Hickcox looked pretty good. I liked what I was able to see from him and look forward to seeing him play this week. He will probably see more time if his condition keeps improving. I think they were trying to be careful with how they used him coming off injury
 

Angrybird

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Always accountable for record this season. And im not spinning anything.

Im just seeing it for what it is and expressed those concerns many times. Ive said this season is setting up like 2013 for a while. Ive referred to our DL and secondary getting decimated since 2019 season. I thought we would suck early this fall and hopefully find our groove by midseason. And while Im always hopeful things could develop faster than expected. My expectations were always very guarded given what we lost on defense and our chronic difficulties in pass game. I definitely said these things early on several times, but as a fam chose not to keep dwelling on them. Glad to dig up my posts.

And while i still like Jefferson's skill set ... he hasnt proven he can take care of ball at this point.

Anyway, no spin here just resumed being a fan as the constant negativity serves no purpose. I still believe in the program.
I think it's hard to take care of the ball when you are trying to make something out of nothing (throw on the run) and throw into tight windows because receivers cannot create separation. His lone turn over of the year is against an FBS school who just dominated every aspect of the game. Jefferson has taken better care of the ball when in the pocket under pressure and scrambling (no fumbles so far).

The offense needs to make some changes. Too many game last year and so far this year the receivers are not able to create any separation. There needs to be more 5 and out/in routes, slants. Something to get the ball moving. He can hit the deep ball well, but if the receivers cannot get out and the line is going to continue to be in his lap all season, thats the only way the ball is going to move. 4 yards a play is a first down.
 

Virginia Redbird

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I looked at the game stats on Goredbirds.com and I knew the offensive production was poor but Total Offense for the Redbirds was 57 yards, 28 yards rushing and 29 yards passing. Being a glass half full type of guy I can at least say the Birds had a balanced attack.
WMU had 407 yards Total Offense, 233 rushing yards and 174 passing yards.
It was a pitiful offensive performance. When was the last time a Redbird team gained less than 100 yards in Total Offense? The Birds had 26 rushing attempts and attempted 19 passes according to the game stats. That amounts to 1.26 yards per offensive play.
I am hoping this was just a bad day for the Redbirds but 57 total yards in four quarters is not very encouraging.

TOTAL OFFENSEISUWMU
Yards57407
 

MadBird

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I looked at the game stats on Goredbirds.com and I knew the offensive production was poor but Total Offense for the Redbirds was 57 yards, 28 yards rushing and 29 yards passing. Being a glass half full type of guy I can at least say the Birds had a balanced attack.
WMU had 407 yards Total Offense, 233 rushing yards and 174 passing yards.
It was a pitiful offensive performance. When was the last time a Redbird team gained less than 100 yards in Total Offense? The Birds had 26 rushing attempts and attempted 19 passes according to the game stats. That amounts to 1.26 yards per offensive play.
I am hoping this was just a bad day for the Redbirds but 57 total yards in four quarters is not very encouraging.

TOTAL OFFENSEISUWMU
Yards57407
Yes.

I discussed some stats aways back on this thread. 4 first downs! 22:52 minutes time of possession, just above the record for lowest TOP. Add those to the yards "gained" numbers and it was a bad night. Also, take out the 13 yards gained on the jet sweep, and the rushing stat is even worse. Our friends at the Pantagraph could do us all a service by researching the record books and tell us "officially" what a futile performance this was. Record setting?
 

Chi-bird

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A few thoughts:
1. Many programs have taken a step back during the past two seasons with the pandemic, the new transfer rules, etc. We perhaps have taken two or three steps back. Even our communications/marketing department seems to be asleep.
2. We have the right coach to get us back on track, and I believe he will - but it’s likely going to take a year or two.
3. The areas that need to see the biggest improvement seem to be on both sides of the line, and at the QB position…but the O-line stands out.
4. Our punting game was great at WMU.
 

fourthandshort

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I think it's hard to take care of the ball when you are trying to make something out of nothing (throw on the run) and throw into tight windows because receivers cannot create separation. His lone turn over of the year is against an FBS school who just dominated every aspect of the game. Jefferson has taken better care of the ball when in the pocket under pressure and scrambling (no fumbles so far).

The offense needs to make some changes. Too many game last year and so far this year the receivers are not able to create any separation. There needs to be more 5 and out/in routes, slants. Something to get the ball moving. He can hit the deep ball well, but if the receivers cannot get out and the line is going to continue to be in his lap all season, thats the only way the ball is going to move. 4 yards a play is a first down.
wasn't able to watch game, but very good point tegarding ball security given pocket pressure and your report on receiver separation.
 

fourthandshort

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I thought this was interesting. Average yards per play by the Western Michigan offense in their games in 2020 and 2021

2020
Akron - 8.3 yards per play
Toledo - 7.7
C. Mich - 8.4
N. ILL - 6.6
E. Mich -8.0
Ball St. - 5.5

2021
Michigan - 4.5
Illinois St. - 5.6
this is good stat and very relevant context, particularly given how our offense only got 4 first downs ... lot of 3 & outs putting defense back on field quickly.
 

Redbird28

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I thought this was interesting. Average yards per play by the Western Michigan offense in their games in 2020 and 2021

2020
Akron - 8.3 yards per play
Toledo - 7.7
C. Mich - 8.4
N. ILL - 6.6
E. Mich -8.0
Ball St. - 5.5

2021
Michigan - 4.5
Illinois St. - 5.6
Last year they had WR Eskridge - who got drafted by the Seahawks 56th overall, which is definitely why they had higher yards per play.
 

Redbird15

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I think it's hard to take care of the ball when you are trying to make something out of nothing (throw on the run) and throw into tight windows because receivers cannot create separation. His lone turn over of the year is against an FBS school who just dominated every aspect of the game. Jefferson has taken better care of the ball when in the pocket under pressure and scrambling (no fumbles so far).

The offense needs to make some changes. Too many game last year and so far this year the receivers are not able to create any separation. There needs to be more 5 and out/in routes, slants. Something to get the ball moving. He can hit the deep ball well, but if the receivers cannot get out and the line is going to continue to be in his lap all season, thats the only way the ball is going to move. 4 yards a play is a first down.
You are so CORRECT 1! Below is a copy and paste from march of bring in ND WR ! We numerous times I posted about separation and James Robinson era of how teams played our WR's. Robinson era teams stack the box to stop the run so WR were able to get open when Brady had to pass ! After that era teams don't even respect our WR's speed they can man up with corners and still cheat with safeties not get beat. Go look back at games you will see the WR speed was never really any separation.
copy paste -----
Let’s see if he is a threat ! Lol Eric Rogers was to be a threat they don’t use him lol kid looks the same as Eric r. ISU personnel schemes leaves everyone with ? Mark’s ! Big body’s don’t mean kid can get of the line and get separation fo DBs ? If they can go up over small Db’s great if they are not fast but in reality teams got to have both... um we need tyreke hill type kid and a megatron then we can blame OC or QB ! Right now it’s the OC’s scheme for the personnel u put on the field for their strengths.. IF they can;t run 35 yards and get open don’t throw deep balls go short route use the big body’s and speedy slots !

Last edited: Mar 24, 2021
 

fourthandshort

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You are so CORRECT 1! Below is a copy and paste from march of bring in ND WR ! We numerous times I posted about separation and James Robinson era of how teams played our WR's. Robinson era teams stack the box to stop the run so WR were able to get open when Brady had to pass ! After that era teams don't even respect our WR's speed they can man up with corners and still cheat with safeties not get beat. Go look back at games you will see the WR speed was never really any separation.
copy paste -----
Let’s see if he is a threat ! Lol Eric Rogers was to be a threat they don’t use him lol kid looks the same as Eric r. ISU personnel schemes leaves everyone with ? Mark’s ! Big body’s don’t mean kid can get of the line and get separation fo DBs ? If they can go up over small Db’s great if they are not fast but in reality teams got to have both... um we need tyreke hill type kid and a megatron then we can blame OC or QB ! Right now it’s the OC’s scheme for the personnel u put on the field for their strengths.. IF they can;t run 35 yards and get open don’t throw deep balls go short route use the big body’s and speedy slots !

Last edited: Mar 24, 2021
Losing Edgar (injuries) and Grimes (FCS transfer) certainly hurt that group a lot. In 2019, Edgar was a stud RS SO and Grimes was very promising RS FR. With free year in 2020-21, they would be be JR and SO right now. And everyone else would drop 2 slots on depth chart.

Will admit, I thought this entire 2019 WR group had very strong promise overall ... young and talented - 14 WRs, just 1 JR and 1 SR. Now we need that young depth to develop and step up .. with top 2 gone, plus the JR Blackmon and SR Haley gone, there was bound to be a set back with so many very young players. We will see if it does or doesn't develop as season progresses .. Nagel, Kacper, Tristan Bailey, Eric Rogers, transfer Mica Jones others ??
 

MadBird

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Losing Edgar (injuries) and Grimes (FCS transfer) certainly hurt that group a lot. In 2019, Edgar was a stud RS SO and Grimes was very promising RS FR. With free year in 2020-21, they would be be JR and SO right now. And everyone else would drop 2 slots on depth chart.

Will admit, I thought this entire 2019 WR group had very strong promise overall ... young and talented - 14 WRs, just 1 JR and 1 SR. Now we need that young depth to develop and step up .. with top 2 gone, plus the JR Blackmon and SR Haley gone, there was bound to be a set back with so many very young players. We will see if it does or doesn't develop as season progresses .. Nagel, Kacper, Tristan Bailey, Eric Rogers, transfer Mica Jones others ??
Yes, and SO Jabari Khepera has already elbowed to the front of that line and is starting, and FR TreShawn Watson also on the two-deep.

Will point out, just to toss out a "negative" comment, our WR coach is our co-OC, who appears by his bio to be new to WR coaching since coming to ISU. Was a RB (and LB) as a player and RB coach prior to ISU. Maybe he's getting his footing.

And for that matter, it doesn't appear our QB coach was ever a QB coach before he arrived at ISU either. For what it's worth . . . .
 

Total Red

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Yes, and SO Jabari Khepera has already elbowed to the front of that line and is starting, and FR TreShawn Watson also on the two-deep.

Will point out, just to toss out a "negative" comment, our WR coach is our co-OC, who appears by his bio to be new to WR coaching since coming to ISU. Was a RB (and LB) as a player and RB coach prior to ISU. Maybe he's getting his footing.

And for that matter, it doesn't appear our QB coach was ever a QB coach before he arrived at ISU either. For what it's worth . . . .
Good point. If you want to know where we're really young, it's the offensive coaching staff.
 

Redbird15

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Good point. If you want to know where we're really young, it's the offensive coaching staff.
Yes the Offensive staff is young. I will take the WR coach and QB anyday ! They have years in with teams compared to a OC who in 2017 was grad assistant then actually 1 yr position TE coach.. and now an OC ! LOL ! WR/QB's productivity depends on OC play calling !
 

redbirdfan04

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So one thing to look at after the season is how Western Michigan does in the MAC. If they come out on top it will give us a different perspective from this game. The year after losing the National Championship we rolled into Iowa who had a terrible year the year before. Many people included the beat writer for the local Iowa City newspaper picked ISU to win that game. We got crushed. Spack took most of our starters out in the third quarter. Iowa went undefeated in the big ten only losing the Big ten championship and to Stanford in the Rose bowl.
 

fourthandshort

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So one thing to look at after the season is how Western Michigan does in the MAC. If they come out on top it will give us a different perspective from this game. The year after losing the National Championship we rolled into Iowa who had a terrible year the year before. Many people included the beat writer for the local Iowa City newspaper picked ISU to win that game. We got crushed. Spack took most of our starters out in the third quarter. Iowa went undefeated in the big ten only losing the Big ten championship and to Stanford in the Rose bowl.
Ironically, same but better outcome for 2016 Northwestern win. Northwestern started 0-2 with our win .. yet they went on to bowl game. And they had a lot of close losses to very good FBS teams.

We went on 2 lose 3 straight to so so teams. Very up and down season.
 
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