vs SIU (2-1) - 1/6/24 - 6 pm - Marquee

[ChiRedbirdfan]

I am not sure any of the “Grinnell” type teams have been very successful. If we are saying we don’t want to win, we want to entertain, OK. I am not there yet.

...if this Redbird team tries to get out and run i believe we may score an additional 10 to 12 points a game while our opponents are likely to score an additional 15 to 20 points a game. we would have some real ugly losses, imo, with a fast tempo game style.

 

[CaliRdBrd]

Agree with most everything on here. It is also frustrating with all the confidence and excitement about our roster depth early on, no one can come up with a decent five to play now. Sad state of affairs, plenty of blame or whatever to go around.
Is it time to be bold for once and turn the keys over to guys recruited to be foundation players- Pence and Kinzinger?

Too many build this teams’ potential up in the preseason. I actually found myself starting to sip a bit of the Kool Aid as well.
The reality is we are not good. We haven been good in 25 years. We’re probably never going to be as good as we were under Donewald ever again
So what’s the solution?
Scrap the X’s and O’s and let’s create a fun atmosphere where we run and gun and dunk spectacularly ever chance we get.
At least make it interesting.
Otherwise, I guess death by a thousand paper cuts is fine….

 

[CaliRdBrd]

People going to be upset with some of this but time we discuss it. Does ISU continue to go down the road of trying to be the little big ten, or big whatever? Or do we do something radical and hire a coach and system that is offense, first, second and third? So what we give up 90, we score 94 and win. Running and gunning and attract the players that are pure scorers? But they may also struggle on defense. I am of the opinion that you can teach defense easier than offense. At least it would be a lot more entertaining than watching us not score for 5 minutes at a stretch. A couple years ago Samford hired a coach that was all run and gun. It was actually really fun to watch. I know different conference and all that, but our recent formulas for about 30 years now have not worked. If we ever are going to attract talent in the days of the portal why not concentrate on players that can score at will but maybe get passed over because of their defensive liabilities. Bombs Away!

Just typed something similar and then saw this.
Brilliant minds…

 

[Loyl2u]

I don't get the impression that Pedon is a yanker. Probably was a half dozen incidents last night that I though a player shoulda been yanked and weren't. Mostly for getting burned on back to back possessions on D losing 10 or 24 in a trail of dust.

He may be a bencher. Pence not playing last night (unless he was hurt), Davis,.. I'm sure there are other examples. He may be one of the least yanky coaches we've had in a couple decades for blowing plays.

On another train, we've been great at not turning it over recently while still getting beat. Haven't run the numbers but we seem more likely to win when we turn it over more often.

Agree with Hulka, While I’ve been a proponent of shortening the bench, I also think they need a 4 & a 5 on the floor-we really got a good luck at playing 6 guys last night. Luke was -1 in 28 minutes even though I agree that he/they should have extended defense much earlier. Banks was +6 in 31 minutes. On the other hand, when Banks was out, Birds were -10 in that 9 minutes. Darius was -11 in 25 minutes and the rest were Mal -6 & Foster & Lewis -9 in 30+ minutes.

 

[redbirds2000]

Too many build this teams’ potential up in the preseason. I actually found myself starting to sip a bit of the Kool Aid as well.
The reality is we are not good. We haven been good in 25 years. We’re probably never going to be as good as we were under Donewald ever again
So what’s the solution?
Scrap the X’s and O’s and let’s create a fun atmosphere where we run and gun and dunk spectacularly ever chance we get.
At least make it interesting.
Otherwise, I guess death by a thousand paper cuts is fine….

Dunk? We need to get the entire Normal Community starting lineup. They have more guys in their starting five that can dunk than ISU does and I am not kidding.

 

[Aggie]

if this Redbird team tries to get out and run i believe we may score an additional 10 to 12 points a game while our opponents are likely to score an additional 15 to 20 points a game. we would have some real ugly losses, imo, with a fast tempo game style.

Not talking this team or coach. It would all be different. Not saying it’s a perfect system but it would be more entertaining

 

[Bird Friend]

Quit reading the thread cuz the points/counterpoints were rehashing the same things. The only good thing I’ll say is that this thread is 9 pages and counting, for a loss. That hasn’t happened much under Pedon. And the only reason they happened under Muller were the “fire Muller” comments that filled those threads.

i guess that means some here have bought in and have some expectations of this team. I predict that if this kind of game continues to happen next year . . . “fire Pedon” comments will commence.

 

[CaliRdBrd]

Dunk? We need to get the entire Normal Community starting lineup. They have more guys in their starting five that can dunk than ISU does and I am not kidding.

Sad

 

[stielowp]

Some want other offensive sets put in some don’t. This offense is really weird. I’m going to say this AGAIN. Last year Mal played out of position and this year it’s more of the same. Last year he played the 1, this year he’s playing the 3. With some things weighing him down which he’s now gotten over and him playing the 3 this is a difficult season for him. I don’t like what I’m hearing. We have 2 maybe three injuries coming from this game. I’m beginning to think a lil different about this season now. This was a pretty big game for the Birds and it didn’t get done.

What is the difference between the "2" and the "3" in this offense? What is that different about those positions? I understand the difference between the "1" and those. I was hoping Mal could be that guy we could rely on to make shots off the ball (like Brown from SIU). It is definitely a need for us. What are we getting from our "2's" and "3's"? Burford scores inside (mostly in transition though), We are getting very little from Mal, Luke, or even JK when he is playing off the ball. When we have to get into an offensive set, our only chance of scoring is a Foster "iso", maybe a Banks dribble drive, or an offensive rebound from Lewis.

 

[crazzymark]

Illinois state will always hire assistant coaches, equipment managers or waterboys or something other than established head coaches. ISU just don't want to spend the money, I wouldn't blame them only 2,000 people show up to a basketball game.

 

[SlackBooDom]

What is the difference between the "2" and the "3" in this offense? What is that different about those positions? I understand the difference between the "1" and those. I was hoping Mal could be that guy we could rely on to make shots off the ball (like Brown from SIU). It is definitely a need for us. What are we getting from our "2's" and "3's"? Burford scores inside (mostly in transition though), We are getting very little from Mal, Luke, or even JK when he is playing off the ball. When we have to get into an offensive set, our only chance of scoring is a Foster "iso", maybe a Banks dribble drive, or an offensive rebound from Lewis.

I do not think there’s a difference.

 

[CaliRdBrd]

What is the difference between the "2" and the "3" in this offense? What is that different about those positions? I understand the difference between the "1" and those. I was hoping Mal could be that guy we could rely on to make shots off the ball (like Brown from SIU). It is definitely a need for us. What are we getting from our "2's" and "3's"? Burford scores inside (mostly in transition though), We are getting very little from Mal, Luke, or even JK when he is playing off the ball. When we have to get into an offensive set, our only chance of scoring is a Foster "iso", maybe a Banks dribble drive, or an offensive rebound from Lewis.

Usually about 4-6 inches.

 

[RedbirdSoxFan]

I do not think there’s a difference.

Burford is 6-0 getting guarded by the other team’s 2. Mal is 6-3 getting guarded by the other team’s 3 (who is probably 6-5 or 6-6. That is going to make it difficult on him defensively guarding a guy 3-4 inches taller, and trying to score on a guy 3-4 inches taller. Problem is with Kasubke in, he can’t guard or score against the guy playing the 3. Bottom line, we need someone who can defend and score against the other teams 3.

 

[Loyl2u]

Burford is 6-0 getting guarded by the other team’s 2. Mal is 6-3 getting guarded by the other team’s 3 (who is probably 6-5 or 6-6. That is going to make it difficult on him defensively guarding a guy 3-4 inches taller, and trying to score on a guy 3-4 inches taller. Problem is with Kasubke in, he can’t guard or score against the guy playing the 3. Bottom line, we need someone who can defend and score against the other teams 3.

I actually think Luke gives better defensive effort than most of our guards, I went back and looked at play by play-Luke was on the floor for two(2) of Johnson’s 9 field goals and Luke fouled Johnson twice down the stretch for 4 Freethrows. Luke was -1 for the game. I’ve also been disappointed in his shooting this year(along w/others) but sometimes a defender is more important to team success than another scorer. You can give up 3-4 inches( not much more, I agree) if you can combine to close quickly and work hard to put yourself in good position on defensive end + you’re strong enough to deal with post up.

 

[SlackBooDom]

I actually think Luke gives better defensive effort than most of our guards, I went back and looked at play by play-Luke was on the floor for two(2) of Johnson’s 9 field goals and Luke fouled Johnson twice down the stretch for 4 Freethrows. Luke was -1 for the game. I’ve also been disappointed in his shooting this year(along w/others) but sometimes a defender is more important to team success than another scorer. You can give up 3-4 inches( not much more, I agree) if you can combine to close quickly and work hard to put yourself in good position on defensive end + you’re strong enough to deal with post up.

4.9 fouls called per 40 is second worst on the team to Lieb and is a 40% increase from last season. Combine that with the second worst analytics on the defensive end ahead of Poindexter and I’m not sure the numbers parse out the eye-test argument. Luke isn’t shooting it well and is a negative on defense. It’s a tough combo right now.