Roster changes

[GOP_Redbird]

https://twitter.com/thatboywill_yum/status/1086440246055763968?s=21

Willie Edwards...appears to be looking to jump to the FBS? Not sure the grass is greener for him.

 

[Manchester Matt]

Jason Harris is also leaving the program.

Tough night.

 

[MadBird]

Wow. Not sure of the right words - depressing, sad, confusing, whatever. Have always believed Spack could hold them together better than that.

Bad vibes with the new D staff??

 

[fdbird83]

https://www.pantagraph.com/sports/college/football/isu-cornerback-defensive-end-tweet-departures/article_cf40e5bf-1e4f-5730-81ec-6e039008a987.html

 

[TIMMY]

Harris is completely understandable from a football perspective. He is a 4-3 end and was out of position as a 3-4 OLB or jack.
Tidbit on his dad. Al was a good NFL DE/LB with the Bears. He would have been a starter on the Super Bowl team. He and Todd Bell held out. Mike Hartenstein and Dave Duerson stepped up. Not the year to hold out.

 

[Virginia Redbird]

Harris is completely understandable from a football perspective. He is a 4-3 end and was out of position as a 3-4 OLB or jack.
Tidbit on his dad. Al was a good NFL DE/LB with the Bears. He would have been a starter on the Super Bowl team. He and Todd Bell held out. Mike Hartenstein and Dave Duerson stepped up. Not the year to hold out.

Dave Duerson stepped in a safety for Bell but wasn't it Wilbur Marshall who took over for Al Harris at the OLB spot? The starting 11 in '85 were Dent (started 16 of 16 games), McMichael (16/16), Hampton (15/16), Singletary (16/16), Wilson (16/16), Marshall (15/16), Fencik 16/16), Duerson (15/15), Richardson (14/14) and Frazier (16/16). Hartenstine started 8 games that year on the defensive line and William Perry started 9 games.

 

[RedbirdSoxFan]

Harris is completely understandable from a football perspective. He is a 4-3 end and was out of position as a 3-4 OLB or jack.
Tidbit on his dad. Al was a good NFL DE/LB with the Bears. He would have been a starter on the Super Bowl team. He and Todd Bell held out. Mike Hartenstein and Dave Duerson stepped up. Not the year to hold out.

Not sure Harris would have been a starter (Which made less sense for him to hold out for more money & maybe reason Bears didn’t care if he sat out)

Starters were:
Richard Dent-DE
Steve McMichael-DT
Williams Perry-DT
Dan Hampton-DE
Ottis Wilson-OLB
Mike Singletary-MLB
Wilbur Marshall-OLB

Dave Duerson made the Pro-Bowl.

 

[fourthandshort]

I'm going to guess it is combination of too much competition for reps returning on defense and Spack's old school demanding ways tends to wear people out. The RS SRs might be thinking the grind is not worth it, especially if it looks like they might be losing field time with all this depth returning. Spack seems more eager to go young lately.

I think we can absorb these losses ok, but we've now lost 3 from our defensive 2 deep ... these 2 starters and 1 that might have become starter (Safety Broadnax).

Spack might want to start thinking about why more RS SRs are opting out of program once they graduate. Coincidence or trend ?

 

[ISUBU]

Spack might want to start thinking about why more RS SRs are opting out of program once they graduate. Coincidence or trend ?

This is a trend only in that the rule permitting grad transfers isn't very old. Just a couple seasons ago his options would have been to quit playing or to play as a Redbird.

His transferring is a loss...he has been a major contributor. We don't really know what is going on in his life. I wish him luck.

If the environment around ISU football was so bad, we wouldn't pick up brothers, friends, teammates and cousins. The fact that we get "repeat business" tells me more about the team culture than do the individual transfers.

 

[Virginia Redbird]

Harris is completely understandable from a football perspective. He is a 4-3 end and was out of position as a 3-4 OLB or jack.
Tidbit on his dad. Al was a good NFL DE/LB with the Bears. He would have been a starter on the Super Bowl team. He and Todd Bell held out. Mike Hartenstein and Dave Duerson stepped up. Not the year to hold out.

Not sure Harris would have been a starter (Which made less sense for him to hold out for more money & maybe reason Bears didn’t care if he sat out)

Starters were:
Richard Dent-DE
Steve McMichael-DT
Williams Perry-DT
Dan Hampton-DE
Ottis Wilson-OLB
Mike Singletary-MLB
Wilbur Marshall-OLB

Dave Duerson made the Pro-Bowl.

Perry was not the starter on the defensive line at the beginning of the season. There was a battle (one of many) going on between Ditka and Buddy Ryan over playing Perry. By the mid point to the end of the season Perry was the starter.

 

[TIMMY]

That's correct about Marshall and Perry. Harris was a LB before his holdout and a DE after. My thought is he would have started over Hartenstein at DE until Hampton got bounced out to DE when Perry was made a starter. Buddy did sub out his DL. Henry Wackter and Tyrone Keys played a lot as well.

 

[TIMMY]

Sorry about the thread hijack but it's January and I just like football talk.

 

[StLRedbird]

Spack might want to start thinking about why more RS SRs are opting out of program once they graduate. Coincidence or trend ?

This is a trend only in that the rule permitting grad transfers isn't very old. Just a couple seasons ago his options would have been to quit playing or to play as a Redbird.

His transferring is a loss...he has been a major contributor. We don't really know what is going on in his life. I wish him luck.

If the environment around ISU football was so bad, we wouldn't pick up brothers, friends, teammates and cousins. The fact that we get "repeat business" tells me more about the team culture than do the individual transfers.

At first blush, I thought this amounted to big votes of no-confidence in our prospects for next season. But I think I agree with ISUBUs view that this has more to do with the individual situations of these two fellows. And grad transfers are just a new fact of life in college athletics. Strong programs should be net beneficiaries. But FCS overall will be net losers. Or something like that.

 

[fourthandshort]

I still think the "Spack grind factor", combined with our returning depth on defense and Spack's willingness to player younger guys lately ... has a lot to do with it. RS JRs with degrees have complete freedom to do whatever they want .. on surface, the easiest thing to do would be just return and play your 5th year as graduate .. but some are starting to choose otherwise ... both were starters last year .. this says something.

Note, unless they graduated in December, they will have to finish school, miss chance to get acclimated into next program with spring ball, which hurts their chances to be on field nextt fall, even at FCS level .. unless they find a team that needs immediate help at their position.

So it will be very interesting to see where our grad transfers wind up ... RB Smith, DE/LB Harris and DB Edwards .. plus Safety Broadnax (not grad), though he will have to drop down or lose a year .. maybe he just wants to be a QB, then comepltely understandable .. though I am convinced he would be much better Safety than QB .. QB turned WR Meredith was a much better QB than Broadnax IMO.

 

[fourthandshort]

Sorry about the thread hijack but it's January and I just like football talk.

we're all bored and a little off our game .. longer than normal offseason will do that to best of posters.

 

[Virginia Redbird]

Sorry about the thread hijack but it's January and I just like football talk.

No complaint from me Timmy! 1985 was one of the most fun times I can remember. I am happy to discuss that team any time. They were awesome on the field but just so much fun off of it. I cant remember having so much fun following one team for a season. Really fond memories.

As far as the players leaving the Redbirds I think some of this is just going to happen and it is happening to other teams as well, both FCS and FBS. It appears that some were dismissals by Spack for infractions and good for him for holding these young men to a standard of excellence. I think the team will miss some of the players next year but lets be honest. Very few are going to even have that chance at an NFL career so they need to learn discipline and that you have to carry yourself in a certain way and adhere to the rules. Sadly in the FBS or NFL this is not the case. You can be the most despicable individual in the world and as long as you can carry the ball or toss it you will be just fine. There are many, many examples of this. Best of luck to the players that decided to look for other places to play. I wish them well. For those who remain...I will be there next season to cheer you on and hope for a championship!

 

[MadBird]

Uhhh, WTF?? Now Dex Kelly-Martin sent packing??

https://www.pantagraph.com/sports/c...cle_c6226df8-e1c4-5463-96ea-07814ad78a93.html

Spack sounds confident, but geez, this is starting to look like the basketball team!!

 

[TIMMY]

Whenever you change a defense there is transition. Some guys just don't fit. Spack went from a 4-3 to a 3-4 last year. And I think he did it last year because he knew the team was a year away.

So here's the deal on Harris. IMO Harris is a 4-3 DE. He is a 9 technique get up the field DE. He was playing out of position last year. He is certainly not a 3-4 DE. He is also not a 3-4 Jack. He is not a "jack of all trades". Pass drop and coverage are not his forte, and there are times you have to drop the Jack.

I will be willing to bet he ends up somewhere in a 4-3 scheme next year. Good for him. He's a good football player and I wish him well.

 

[MadBird]

Whenever you change a defense there is transition. Some guys just don't fit. Spack went from a 4-3 to a 3-4 last year. And I think he did it last year because he knew the team was a year away.

So here's the deal on Harris. IMO Harris is a 4-3 DE. He is a 9 technique get up the field DE. He was playing out of position last year. He is certainly not a 3-4 DE. He is also not a 3-4 Jack. He is not a "jack of all trades". Pass drop and coverage are not his forte, and there are times you have to drop the Jack.

I will be willing to bet he ends up somewhere in a 4-3 scheme next year. Good for him. He's a good football player and I wish him well.

Thank you for that insight, I can buy that, had never put that two and two together myself. I feel better now!

 

[Total Red]

So here's the deal on Harris. IMO Harris is a 4-3 DE. He is a 9 technique get up the field DE. He was playing out of position last year. He is certainly not a 3-4 DE. He is also not a 3-4 Jack. He is not a "jack of all trades". Pass drop and coverage are not his forte,

I agree that pass drop coverage is not his forte but Harris is not a get up the field DE either. He played DE in a 4-3 in '16 and '17 which included 21 games played with 19 starts. In those two seasons combined Harris only had 4.5 sacks and 11.5 TFLs. In 2017 alone DT Dalton Keene had 8.0 sacks and 13 TFL's and reserve DE James Graham and 7.5 sacks.


In 2018 as a Jack Lineman Harris just 1.0 sack and 2.0 TFL's. His backup D-Lineman Ryan Guhl received much less playing time but he had 1.5 sacks and 4.5 TFL's. If you want your Jack to get upfield then go with Guhl. He loves to attack. He'll give up some big plays when someone gets past him but he'll also make more big plays for loss.


So what was Harris doing out there for the last 3 years? The strength of his game was horizontal. He's rangy and quick. On plays to his side he could string them out to the sideline and he was even better when teams ran away from him. Running down plays from the backside was his forte.