Ramblers @ Redbirds 1-10-18

[JHBird]

Maybe the smaller teams ( Drake & Loyola ) will just give us problems. I can't believe we got outrebounded, but they had a lot more defensive rebound opps vs our shooting...but still. Nobody really had a good game for us and we were in it for most of the way. Seemed like they made 15 easy layups against us.

 

[Birdman85]

To anyone who says this is a process is funny. Dan is in his 6th year. His process should be fine tuned by now.

Is your suggestion that because Dan has been here, the players he brings in every year should automatically warp zone to Paris Lee's Sr year and that they, themselves, are not allowed to develop?

Fun fact: Paris Lee became the POY and DPOY not in spite of having 1.5 rocky seasons as a freshman and soph, but BECAUSE of them. You don't climb a mountain from the top. These kids are getting an idea of the speed of the game now and are learning ALL NEW timing, footwork, shooting forms, dribbling and defensive techniques. Dan can't teach all that in the summer before the season or even in practices all freshmen year. It is ALWAYS a process in college basketball. You are never getting a finished product signing a LOI; you are getting a lump of clay that you have to mold. Every single time with every single recruit.

So every couple years we should expect down years? Player retention and better player development are two things we could be better at.

 

[Redbirdwarrior]

Yes. Every couple years, you should expect a losing season in a mid major. You have to re-load. Credit to Muller, he has never given you a losing season, meaning he has been able to prepare his team well enough each and every year to be, at WORST, above average, even in down years.

While I agree with retention, it really is a culture of the NCAA that is to blame for that, not coach. The NCAA rules essentially allow Mid Majors to be junior colleges to the power 6. If a player is being told by the Big 10, ACC or Pac 12 (as we have lost our most recent transfers to) that they are going to get PT on a national stage against the T25 every week, it is hard to fight for ANY non-power conference program.

I flat out disagree with you when it comes to development. I know we keep hanging our hat on Paris Lee, but there are a BUNCH of young players that coach has been able to hone and develop into strong D-1 players every year of his career. I'd suggest that looking at Phil Fayne and Keyshawn Evans right now and just saying that is all natural and has nothing to do with Muller's development plan is ridiculous.

 

[Morans14]

To anyone who says this is a process is funny. Dan is in his 6th year. His process should be fine tuned by now.

Is your suggestion that because Dan has been here, the players he brings in every year should automatically warp zone to Paris Lee's Sr year and that they, themselves, are not allowed to develop?

Fun fact: Paris Lee became the POY and DPOY not in spite of having 1.5 rocky seasons as a freshman and soph, but BECAUSE of them. You don't climb a mountain from the top. These kids are getting an idea of the speed of the game now and are learning ALL NEW timing, footwork, shooting forms, dribbling and defensive techniques. Dan can't teach all that in the summer before the season or even in practices all freshmen year. It is ALWAYS a process in college basketball. You are never getting a finished product signing a LOI; you are getting a lump of clay that you have to mold. Every single time with every single recruit.

So every couple years we should expect down years? Player retention and better player development are two things we could be better at.

I think realistic expectations are that freshman players coming off injury deserve a little slack while they are adjusting to D1 speed. As pointed out, Paris Lee was a special player and left some big shoes to fill. I'm just inclined to give Elijah time and patience.


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[Birdman85]

If you are ok with rebuilding every four years after making the NIT and having marginal success then good for you. Most people would consider last year a building block moving forward. I guess I will lower my standards and shoot for an NIT two years in a row then rebuild.

 

[jbird]

If I were a gambling man with some money I would be all over that under. That seems way high.

Loyola-60
Redbirds-58

MY is due for a fight with Muller.

Custer makes a big stand........

5800 attendance

Based on the postgame, you may have gotten the MY call right, ...

What was said postgame?

Can't open that Twitter link for some reason. Can anyone give a 2 or 3 sentence summary of the postgame comments that are causing the concern about HCDM and MY?

 

[jbird]

i''m not going to overplay the significance of one call, but when a Redbird (I think Madison, but could be wrong) was driving hard for the basket from the left wing, he crashed into a defender and was called for a charge; it appeared to me that the defender was standing pretty much right under the basket (obviously, if so, within the semicircle where a charging call is supposed to be impossible). Does anyone recall that play? If so, did you see the defender's positioning differently than my recollection?

 

[isuquinndog]

To anyone who says this is a process is funny. Dan is in his 6th year. His process should be fine tuned by now.

Is your suggestion that because Dan has been here, the players he brings in every year should automatically warp zone to Paris Lee's Sr year and that they, themselves, are not allowed to develop?

Fun fact: Paris Lee became the POY and DPOY not in spite of having 1.5 rocky seasons as a freshman and soph, but BECAUSE of them. You don't climb a mountain from the top. These kids are getting an idea of the speed of the game now and are learning ALL NEW timing, footwork, shooting forms, dribbling and defensive techniques. Dan can't teach all that in the summer before the season or even in practices all freshmen year. It is ALWAYS a process in college basketball. You are never getting a finished product signing a LOI; you are getting a lump of clay that you have to mold. Every single time with every single recruit.

Well said. We aren't Kentucky or Duke. We don't reload with NBA players who have to play a year before they get drafted. We get kids who have potential but need to develop. That's the way it is.

Just like in baseball, prospects sometimes turn into Kris Bryant or Albert Pujols. Sometimes they are Mike Harkey or Paul Coleman.

 

[Redbirdwarrior]

If you are ok with rebuilding every four years after making the NIT and having marginal success then good for you. Most people would consider last year a building block moving forward. I guess I will lower my standards and shoot for an NIT two years in a row then rebuild.

I suspect many people, nationally, did consider it a building block moving forward. But you don't lose Paris Lee, Tony Wills, MiKyle McIntosh, Teddy Hawkins AND DJ Clayton and just be like "okay, anything worse than 28 wins is a failure". You have GENERATIONAL talent on that last team. I argue, top to bottom, it might have been the best ISU roster of all time. Maybe you got spoiled?

Look, you just need to change your perspective. Maybe you do need to look at 2 NITs in a row (I wouldn't because anything that is based on selection committees, as we found out last year, is terribly biased). Maybe you need to look at RPI year over year and instead of looking at 2 year samples, look at 10 year samples. Much like weather vs climate, because you have one day in the 20s in Normal IL in March does not mean the world isn't getting warmer overall. Because ISU has a roster full of freshmen and first year players and wins less than 20 games does not mean the overall arrow isn't pointing up.

If you think the arrow is pointing down for the program, you will have your group that agrees, but I'm pretty sure the science will say that, for the last 10 years or so, the arrow has been consistently up.

Does that mean things cant change for the worse? No. But statistically it means that the odds of LONG TERM success (IE: Wichita St) are more likely. Building the program culture on the right foundation. That is what Muller has done and I like where things are headed.

 

[V Boy]

If you are ok with rebuilding every four years after making the NIT and having marginal success then good for you. Most people would consider last year a building block moving forward. I guess I will lower my standards and shoot for an NIT two years in a row then rebuild.

I suspect many people, nationally, did consider it a building block moving forward. But you don't lose Paris Lee, Tony Wills, MiKyle McIntosh, Teddy Hawkins AND DJ Clayton and just be like "okay, anything worse than 28 wins is a failure". You have GENERATIONAL talent on that last team. I argue, top to bottom, it might have been the best ISU roster of all time. Maybe you got spoiled?

Look, you just need to change your perspective. Maybe you do need to look at 2 NITs in a row (I wouldn't because anything that is based on selection committees, as we found out last year, is terribly biased). Maybe you need to look at RPI year over year and instead of looking at 2 year samples, look at 10 year samples. Much like weather vs climate, because you have one day in the 20s in Normal IL in March does not mean the world isn't getting warmer overall. Because ISU has a roster full of freshmen and first year players and wins less than 20 games does not mean the overall arrow isn't pointing up.

If you think the arrow is pointing down for the program, you will have your group that agrees, but I'm pretty sure the science will say that, for the last 10 years or so, the arrow has been consistently up.

Does that mean things cant change for the worse? No. But statistically it means that the odds of LONG TERM success (IE: Wichita St) are more likely. Building the program culture on the right foundation. That is what Muller has done and I like where things are headed.

Pretty incredible statement about your program when you say that the best ISU roster of all time and they didn’t even make the Tournament. Not win a game or two in the Tournament. Did not qualify.

 

[Brick]

I think we pretty much agree that ISU got hosed by the NCAA. they deserved to be there and certainly were capable of winning a game or two. It’s also “incredible “ to think that you would lose 4 starters and pick right up where you left off.

 

[ISU FAN 1]

In case you haven’t noticed, he’s regressing. Is it to much to ask that he start moving in the right direction after a month?

He's not regressing, he is literally doing the same thing he did when he first started playing a month ago. He got beat on defense, and turned the ball over. I'll give you that his progression is stagnant, but he's not getting worse, he just hasn't improved much. He's also still a freshman in his first month of college basketball....I want him to live up to the hype and eye test too, but I'm willing to temper my expectations with the reality that is most freshman. Give the kid time to get his feet underneath him (literally), before we start giving up on him.

Declining PT is regressing in my book. And in Dan’s eyes IMO.

 

[ISU FAN 1]

I think we pretty much agree that ISU got hosed by the NCAA. they deserved to be there and certainly were capable of winning a game or two. It’s also “incredible “ to think that you would lose 4 starters and pick right up where you left off.

Until we lost at home in the NIT. Then we pretty much shut up.

 

[Atrey22]

i''m not going to overplay the significance of one call, but when a Redbird (I think Madison, but could be wrong) was driving hard for the basket from the left wing, he crashed into a defender and was called for a charge; it appeared to me that the defender was standing pretty much right under the basket (obviously, if so, within the semicircle where a charging call is supposed to be impossible). Does anyone recall that play? If so, did you see the defender's positioning differently than my recollection?

I thought the exact same thing in real time! Replay showed the defender was just outside the arc

 

[SoCalRedbird]

Who even cares?
Time to face reality. This team may win 20 plus games every 5 years, may get an occasional NCAA bid, and may even make it to Saturday in the NCAA. But that will likely be as good as it ever gets.

I'll take it!

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[DWRedbird]

In case you haven’t noticed, he’s regressing. Is it to much to ask that he start moving in the right direction after a month?

He's not regressing, he is literally doing the same thing he did when he first started playing a month ago. He got beat on defense, and turned the ball over. I'll give you that his progression is stagnant, but he's not getting worse, he just hasn't improved much. He's also still a freshman in his first month of college basketball....I want him to live up to the hype and eye test too, but I'm willing to temper my expectations with the reality that is most freshman. Give the kid time to get his feet underneath him (literally), before we start giving up on him.

Declining PT is regressing in my book. And in Dan’s eyes IMO.

Or it could be that David is back and has eaten into his minutes as well in the regular rotation, and Dan is no longer forced to play him more to allow guys to rest. But, I'm sure its that he is a best in his first month...thank god we moved on from that Paris Lee kid when he didn't immediately produce, I'd hate to think what might happen if we let freshman develop.....

 

[Birdfriend72]

He's not regressing, he is literally doing the same thing he did when he first started playing a month ago. He got beat on defense, and turned the ball over. I'll give you that his progression is stagnant, but he's not getting worse, he just hasn't improved much. He's also still a freshman in his first month of college basketball....I want him to live up to the hype and eye test too, but I'm willing to temper my expectations with the reality that is most freshman. Give the kid time to get his feet underneath him (literally), before we start giving up on him.

Declining PT is regressing in my book. And in Dan’s eyes IMO.

Or it could be that David is back and has eaten into his minutes as well in the regular rotation, and Dan is no longer forced to play him more to allow guys to rest. But, I'm sure its that he is a best in his first month...thank god we moved on from that Paris Lee kid when he didn't immediately produce, I'd hate to think what might happen if we let freshman develop.....

Many on here like to live in the past. It’s pretty sad when your best memory is a team that got knocked out of the 3rd round of the NIT after giving a solid lead. But, I guess you have low expectations. You are in the minority my friend...that’s why we struggle to get 4000 fans in the arena.

 

[Bird Friend]

Declining PT is regressing in my book. And in Dan’s eyes IMO.

Or it could be that David is back and has eaten into his minutes as well in the regular rotation, and Dan is no longer forced to play him more to allow guys to rest. But, I'm sure its that he is a best in his first month...thank god we moved on from that Paris Lee kid when he didn't immediately produce, I'd hate to think what might happen if we let freshman develop.....

Many on here like to live in the past. It’s pretty sad when your best memory is a team that got knocked out of the 3rd round of the NIT after giving a solid lead. But, I guess you have low expectations. You are in the minority my friend...that’s why we struggle to get 4000 fans in the arena.

You know what? . . . I was going to respond in my usual sarcastic manner, pointing out how you seem fine ganging up with the negative brethren on someone with a more positive outlook on the team, but then whine when you feel like you’re being ganged up on. I was going to make snide allusions to the piss you drink and the misery you seem to want everyone to share, to how you feel under appreciated for your self-promoting wisdom. I was going to express an expectation that you would say you’re not being negative, you’re being realistic . . . and how that’s a huge crock of bovine scat.

As I thought more about it I decided not to post comments suggesting that life’s not here to fulfill your sense of self-entitlement, that you’re type of fandom is not the salvation our program needs. I was going to end with a comment about how you’re killing the Bird Friend brand.

But, in the end, I decided you’re not worth it.

 

[DWRedbird]

Many on here like to live in the past. It’s pretty sad when your best memory is a team that got knocked out of the 3rd round of the NIT after giving a solid lead. But, I guess you have low expectations. You are in the minority my friend...that’s why we struggle to get 4000 fans in the arena.

Honestly, what's really sad is that you seemed to think that your post was in any way a contribution to this conversation....

 

[Manchester Matt]

Or it could be that David is back and has eaten into his minutes as well in the regular rotation, and Dan is no longer forced to play him more to allow guys to rest. But, I'm sure its that he is a best in his first month...thank god we moved on from that Paris Lee kid when he didn't immediately produce, I'd hate to think what might happen if we let freshman develop.....

Many on here like to live in the past. It’s pretty sad when your best memory is a team that got knocked out of the 3rd round of the NIT after giving a solid lead. But, I guess you have low expectations. You are in the minority my friend...that’s why we struggle to get 4000 fans in the arena.

You know what? . . . I was going to respond in my usual sarcastic manner, pointing out how you seem fine ganging up with the negative brethren on someone with a more positive outlook on the team, but then whine when you feel like you’re being ganged up on. I was going to make snide allusions to the piss you drink and the misery you seem to want everyone to share, to how you feel under appreciated for your self-promoting wisdom. I was going to express an expectation that you would say you’re not being negative, you’re being realistic . . . and how that’s a huge crock of bovine scat.

As I thought more about it I decided not to post comments suggesting that life’s not here to fulfill your sense of self-entitlement, that you’re type of fandom is not the salvation our program needs. I was going to end with a comment about how you’re killing the Bird Friend brand.

But, in the end, I decided you’re not worth it.

https://media.giphy.com/media/gOTa9mO5EKgIE/giphy.gif