Ramblers @ Redbirds 1-10-18

[ISU FAN 1]

I agree with you, that Porter figured out how to exploit us both offensively, and defensively, and we had absolutely no answer. Though I will say, we don't have anyone right now who I would trust in man to man defense for an entire game. Last year, we had Paris and Tony who were outstanding defenders, Hawkins, who while not a stellar defender didn't get beat defensively, and MM who was a great help side defender for blocking shots. This year, we don't have a guard on the team that can consistently keep his man in front of him. Then we don't have the consistent help defense we had last year, so guys more or less walk right into the basket.

Unless Copeland is Russell Westbrook, hard to imagine next year being much better. And odds are, he is way overhyped in the eyes of Redbird Nation. Could be another year of being satisfied with trying hard.

The thing is, he doesn't have to be Russell Westbrook for us to win games. He just needs to be another option to take the pressure off the Big 3. Add some guard depth, and take some pressure off and that would be fantastic, and help the team.

And hyping up a recruit is the nature of the beast. None of us know how a player is going to be once he plays a D1 minute, and all we have to go off of are their recruiting videos, which make the player look outstanding. But, we certainly aren't the only fan base doing this. Go read Bradley's board..every recruit they bring in is the second coming of Hersey Hawkins, and most of them couldn't even carry Deontae Hawkins shoes around.

Overall, what I'm saying is our losses aren't the result of one player on the roster, and the sky isn't falling...but if you want to Chicken Little yourself into an ulcer after every loss, be my guest, I'll go invest in tums stock now...

I watched Copeland’s videos. Meh. I’m not that hyped on him. Some of his stats were impressive, if they translate to this level. But pure video optics didn’t register high on my eye test. Might be a good thing. I was high on Clarance, and he’s underachieved my expectations by a wide margin.

No ulcers here. Caring less all the time.

 

[DoubleDeuce]

Exactly, make someone besides the Big 3 beat you. Because they can't. It's A Simple Plan.

Better than years when we had a Big nothing for teams to worry about. I know, I know...have to aim higher and not be satisfied, I'm not trying to propagate loser talk...just reminiscing to the bad ol' days. Last night wasn't good, but I'm hopeful we learn and get better. Props to Loyola and their program, not the doormat some expected.

True. Just more frustrating when you have 3 great pieces and failed to put enough with them to compete for something meaningful. The bottom of this roster reminds me of some late Bender era squads.

I really think there's still potential for Tinsley to turn into the 4th "Big". Outside of shooting he's seemed pretty solid to me...has the right build and athleticism. After the exhibition game I thought he was gonna be a star...I'm well aware it was just a exhibition against a d2 team.

 

[DWRedbird]

I watched Copeland’s videos. Meh. I’m not that hyped on him. Some of his stats were impressive, if they translate to this level. But pure video optics didn’t register high on my eye test. Might be a good thing. I was high on Clarance, and he’s underachieved my expectations by a wide margin.

No ulcers here. Caring less all the time.

You are right, I too am shocked that a freshman coming off an injury that prevented him from playing or practicing with the team until the end of November isn't competing for a spot on the all MVC team already in his first month of playing D1 ball...I was going to write him off completely as a bust, but now knowing he passed your initial eye test, I guess I'm willing to give him some time to develop and see how he turns out.....

 

[HT59]

I give Porter credit-- he had a great game plan to bottle up MK and PF & they exploited our man defense and with penetration quickness and we had no help D when our guys were getting beat. Hein is a liability in man D & Taylor can't play post defense (just not his strength). Phil is solid & I see DN slowly improving his D...but until he & hopefully Romine can contribute some quality post defense & then hopefully Clarence with some perimiter defense- we are going to be exploited by good teams like Loyola.

I agree with you, that Porter figured out how to exploit us both offensively, and defensively, and we had absolutely no answer. Though I will say, we don't have anyone right now who I would trust in man to man defense for an entire game. Last year, we had Paris and Tony who were outstanding defenders, Hawkins, who while not a stellar defender didn't get beat defensively, and MM who was a great help side defender for blocking shots. This year, we don't have a guard on the team that can consistently keep his man in front of him. Then we don't have the consistent help defense we had last year, so guys more or less walk right into the basket.

WE have to remember this is a work in progress

 

[Redbirdwarrior]

I give Porter credit-- he had a great game plan to bottle up MK and PF & they exploited our man defense and with penetration quickness and we had no help D when our guys were getting beat. Hein is a liability in man D & Taylor can't play post defense (just not his strength). Phil is solid & I see DN slowly improving his D...but until he & hopefully Romine can contribute some quality post defense & then hopefully Clarence with some perimiter defense- we are going to be exploited by good teams like Loyola.

I agree with you, that Porter figured out how to exploit us both offensively, and defensively, and we had absolutely no answer. Though I will say, we don't have anyone right now who I would trust in man to man defense for an entire game. Last year, we had Paris and Tony who were outstanding defenders, Hawkins, who while not a stellar defender didn't get beat defensively, and MM who was a great help side defender for blocking shots. This year, we don't have a guard on the team that can consistently keep his man in front of him. Then we don't have the consistent help defense we had last year, so guys more or less walk right into the basket.

WE have to remember this is a work in progress

Bingo.

My takeaways: Meh. We were down a dozen at one point then were back to up 1 with 6 minutes left. The team lacks consistency, as one would expect on a roster with 0 seniors.

Gassman had a great game. Love that we are able to put him and Bruninga in and have capable players with length in at any time. Would like to see David be progressing a great deal more than he has. He has taken, seemingly 2 steps back from that roll of excellent games last season. Hopefully that is just the rust falling off from so much time on the shelf. He is essentially in "mid October" form, right now.

On to the next.

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

MW can't go 1 for 7 from the field. He can't shoot 7 times if he's only going to make one basket. I bet he loses his starting spot to Hein soon. Hein is already playing more minutes off the bench.

How can Bruninga only get 8 minutes?

:text-+1: Hahaha...so true. I too am perplexed by Bruninga minutes given some of the others that are getting minutes.

 

[ISU FAN 1]

I watched Copeland’s videos. Meh. I’m not that hyped on him. Some of his stats were impressive, if they translate to this level. But pure video optics didn’t register high on my eye test. Might be a good thing. I was high on Clarance, and he’s underachieved my expectations by a wide margin.

No ulcers here. Caring less all the time.

You are right, I too am shocked that a freshman coming off an injury that prevented him from playing or practicing with the team until the end of November isn't competing for a spot on the all MVC team already in his first month of playing D1 ball...I was going to write him off completely as a bust, but now knowing he passed your initial eye test, I guess I'm willing to give him some time to develop and see how he turns out.....

In case you haven’t noticed, he’s regressing. Is it to much to ask that he start moving in the right direction after a month?

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

Better than years when we had a Big nothing for teams to worry about. I know, I know...have to aim higher and not be satisfied, I'm not trying to propagate loser talk...just reminiscing to the bad ol' days. Last night wasn't good, but I'm hopeful we learn and get better. Props to Loyola and their program, not the doormat some expected.

True. Just more frustrating when you have 3 great pieces and failed to put enough with them to compete for something meaningful. The bottom of this roster reminds me of some late Bender era squads.

I really think there's still potential for Tinsley to turn into the 4th "Big". Outside of shooting he's seemed pretty solid to me...has the right build and athleticism. After the exhibition game I thought he was gonna be a star...I'm well aware it was just a exhibition against a d2 team.

I also thought Tinsley looked decent last night and agree he looks long an athletic for his height. There could be some upside there if he can start shooting at a higher percentage. It would be also nice if he could make a few more offensive plays (beyond just making shots) but he did look decent especially relative to some of the other role players who had the ball a lot at the top in the second half and all one particular player was able to do was burn the shot clock. The particular player whose last name has four letters will remain nameless so that some can continue to view him as their/ISU's own Rudy Ruettiger.

On another note the 4466 official attendance seems a little suspect . That place looked like it was a 1/3 full at best. I asked three people around where we were sitting what they though attendance was and the range was 3,300 to 3,700. We were sitting in the heart of ISU season ticket holders and that was their opinion and not mine. Bringing it up as that is another reason why the notion "nothing matters until Arch Madness" is too much as ISU is missing out on some revenue and the always important opportunity to build the long term fan following.

 

[Birdfriend72]

I don't think the defense was as bad as everyone makes it out to be. Without some defense, we lose by 20+. We held them to 9 points over a 9 minute stretch in the 2nd half to take the lead. Then our offense just died.

I blame this game on us not knowing how to deal with MY getting doubled when he touched the ball. And FT's going to crap again. Shooting 50% from the line is unacceptable. I know we only lost 5 points at the line and we lost by 7, but when those FT's happened, it could have kept us closer in the game.

I totally agree with you. We should have exploited Fayne inside earlier. We went to that well early in the 2nd half, and he scored on a few possessions against a slow foot #25.

 

[Birdman85]

To anyone who says this is a process is funny. Dan is in his 6th year. His process should be fine tuned by now.

 

[bb fan]

I thought, especially down the stretch, Milik was too unselfish. Some of those passes he tried to force in there were bad decisions. He should have drove and got to the line or shot the ball from where he was. 9 TO's are way too many. TO's cost us the game IMHO. Loyola had a great gameplan to disrupt the passing lanes.

 

[Redbirdfan06]

I just don’t find Muller as polarizing as most do. You have one side that is pro Muller and always puts the blame on players and uses the process as an excuse after losses. And then you have the anti Muller side and whatever he does isn’t enough. I find myself in the middle. An imperfect coach but one I am glad is coaching our team. Embrace debate I guess.

 

[V Boy]

Here's my summary of all our key new guys:

Tinsley -- looks like a smaller, less talented version of Hawkins to me. He doesn't handle it well enough to play on the wing. He doesn't play with his back to the basket (unlike Hawkins). The only way he can be effective is if we have extremely strong guards who can penetrate and draw a crowd and he can stand in the corner and make an occasional 3. Good defensive rebounder. Average man-to-man defender. Decent passer. Until his ball-handling and shooting improve, he won't likely play more than 15-20 mpg.

Clarance - Physically he will be fine. Mentally he's still in high school. He has not adjusted to college game speed. Always in a hurry. He takes bad shots. He penetrates without a plan. He doesn't move his feet on defense. He looks like he doesn't know where to go on the court.....like he doesn't understand what our offensive sets are or what defense we are playing. The other guards on the other teams smell blood and just take it right at him/around him. Would bet his +/- rating is very poor. Muller should be having Paris Lee work with this kid on the side.

Yarbrough - Better in half court on the wing or baseline than running the point-forward 5-out thing (which he has been forced into because Evans and Clarance can't create). Not as good of a ball-handler as most accredit him for and is very susceptible to having ball taken away by opposing guards with the high dribble. When he loses control of dribble, often results in a turnover (he doesn't recover). I would actually say ball-handling is a borderline weakness. He carries the ball a lot and is not called for it. His first step is slow and long. His second and third steps are NBA-caliber, which, combined with his length, creates a massive advantage. At his best in transition and with his back to basket. Mentally fragile. Facial expressions and always visually questioning/complaining about calls questions whether he can lead the team. Doesn't move without the ball. Defensively lazy and goes for the steal versus moving feet. Inconsistent rebounder, which maps back to moving without the ball. Elite 1on1 scorer/passer, especially around the basket. Turnover machine.

Bruninga - ton of potential. Confident kid for a frosh. Currently has a good shot that will become elite level. Physically overmatched currently but that will improve next year and he will physically and mentally overmatch others as an upperclassman. Lateral quickness will never be his strength so he needs to improve Dougie McBuckets moves around the basket.

Hein and Gassman - Great to have on your team. But if you are relying on them to handle the ball. Run the offense. Create. Guards other guards. You are at a disadvantage. Both need other very strong guards to play with them for them to be effective (which we do not have).

 

[DWRedbird]

In case you haven’t noticed, he’s regressing. Is it to much to ask that he start moving in the right direction after a month?

He's not regressing, he is literally doing the same thing he did when he first started playing a month ago. He got beat on defense, and turned the ball over. I'll give you that his progression is stagnant, but he's not getting worse, he just hasn't improved much. He's also still a freshman in his first month of college basketball....I want him to live up to the hype and eye test too, but I'm willing to temper my expectations with the reality that is most freshman. Give the kid time to get his feet underneath him (literally), before we start giving up on him.

 

[Sladerunningbear]

Unless Copeland is Russell Westbrook, hard to imagine next year being much better. And odds are, he is way overhyped in the eyes of Redbird Nation. Could be another year of being satisfied with trying hard.
[/quote]

So you are saying there’s a chance?

 

[Tpguy]

Can we stop blaming Hein for everything wrong for this team? We lost because our best player had 9 turnovers, not because of anything Hein did. Also those calling for Clarence to play over him. He gave up two easy lay ups in the 2 minutes he played.

This team is inexperienced and inconsistent. This conference is wide open. We are only a game out of first. Let's stop overreacting to every win and loss.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

It’s not Heins fault he is playing 25 minutes. It’s Mullers fault he is playing that many minutes. If Hein is going to continue to play 20+ minutes, we are going to continue to struggle. We probably have no choice at this point.

You said the magic words “no choice” so true

 

[Redbirdwarrior]

To anyone who says this is a process is funny. Dan is in his 6th year. His process should be fine tuned by now.

Is your suggestion that because Dan has been here, the players he brings in every year should automatically warp zone to Paris Lee's Sr year and that they, themselves, are not allowed to develop?

Fun fact: Paris Lee became the POY and DPOY not in spite of having 1.5 rocky seasons as a freshman and soph, but BECAUSE of them. You don't climb a mountain from the top. These kids are getting an idea of the speed of the game now and are learning ALL NEW timing, footwork, shooting forms, dribbling and defensive techniques. Dan can't teach all that in the summer before the season or even in practices all freshmen year. It is ALWAYS a process in college basketball. You are never getting a finished product signing a LOI; you are getting a lump of clay that you have to mold. Every single time with every single recruit.

 

[Tpguy]

Mullers biggest mistake was not complaining to the refs about the 2-3-2 zone Loyola was using against us.

:confusion-shrug:

 

[Redbird28]

True. Just more frustrating when you have 3 great pieces and failed to put enough with them to compete for something meaningful. The bottom of this roster reminds me of some late Bender era squads.

I really think there's still potential for Tinsley to turn into the 4th "Big". Outside of shooting he's seemed pretty solid to me...has the right build and athleticism. After the exhibition game I thought he was gonna be a star...I'm well aware it was just a exhibition against a d2 team.

I also thought Tinsley looked decent last night and agree he looks long an athletic for his height. There could be some upside there if he can start shooting at a higher percentage. It would be also nice if he could make a few more offensive plays (beyond just making shots) but he did look decent especially relative to some of the other role players who had the ball a lot at the top in the second half and all one particular player was able to do was burn the shot clock. The particular player whose last name has four letters will remain nameless so that some can continue to view him as their/ISU's own Rudy Ruettiger.

On another note the 4466 official attendance seems a little suspect . That place looked like it was a 1/3 full at best. I asked three people around where we were sitting what they though attendance was and the range was 3,300 to 3,700. We were sitting in the heart of ISU season ticket holders and that was their opinion and not mine. Bringing it up as that is another reason why the notion "nothing matters until Arch Madness" is too much as ISU is missing out on some revenue and the always important opportunity to build the long term fan following.

The biggest issue I had down the stretch was WT sitting nearly the entire final 6:15 of the game. I know he came in during the final 30 seconds or so, but by then it was kind of pointless because Loyola had hit their backbreaker 3 with 1:13 left on the clock after MY had turned it over for the 3rd time in the final 6:15. Yes, WT has struggled shooting, but at 5:12 left we were only down 2, so it wasn't like we really needed points so much as we needed to put the hammer down on them defensively + on the glass and string together some stops. Unfortunately, for whatever reason HCDM chose keep MH on the floor. Literally the only thing MH did in the final 6:15 offensively was miss 1 3 point attempt with 3 minutes left that led to a Loyola layup and put us down 9.

I would have much rather had WT's rebounding on the floor and WT's ability to block shots on the floor. He can just as easily miss a single 3 if we're strictly basing PT off shots taken/made. The blocks/rebounds can lead to run outs and possible momentum swings in a tight game.

On an unrelated note, I also hope the charge call WT got against him doesn't deter him from attacking the basket more often. That was a tough call at the time because we had been building momentum and when that went down it would have tied the game at 38. I think the defender was still moving underneath him and in the picture I've seen you can tell WT was sliding around him, but it is what it is. Sometimes that call goes your way, other times it doesn't. They need some more of that attack style out of him and I know for a fact he has a nice dribble drive to the baseline pull up shot in his arsenal that would work well for him in this league. He just needs to be confident enough to use it and attack guys off the bounce.

All of this said, we lost this game because we allowed them to shoot 52% from the floor and gave up 25 points off turnovers. Giving up that many turnovers and then compounding it by allowing them to capitalize on them is just unacceptable and not what I would consider to be the ISU brand of basketball, first and foremost: value the ball.

 

[Brick]

1. Yarbrough had difficulty driving last night because he rated a double team or a second defender shading him. 2. He sat awhile in the second half because he had 4 fouls. 3. Of his tour overs one was a charge. One was a palming and two I think we’re traveling when he got bumped going to the hole. He’s gonna see double teams the rest of the way and Dan/MY have to figure out how to exploit that. Furthermore Gassman had a really nice game except for the traveling calls. He even had a nice move into the lane for a score. 11 points off the bench was good. Boogie gives length and rebounding. Even took it to the rack though he got a charge. If he figures out his jump shot we will be much better. We only have 12 scholarships. You cannot plan on injury nor having a player go ineligible by one grade. A player that from my sources was a special player in the summer. Losing Copeland was perhaps the biggest loss. This team is average at best defensively and will be up and down all year. They won’t win many, if any, games with their D. Finally having said all that Yarbrough is still the best player we have