Murray State Football to MVFC?

[Dmills]

Good question and I am not sure I have the answer. Though we have played EIU many many times it seems as though the rivalry was somewhat manufactured via the creation of the Mid-American classic title about a decade ago. ISU should absolutely play EIU on occasion for ease of scheduling purposes but to have them be a focal point of ISU's football schedule on an annual basis does not make much financial/university image/fan interest sense to me. I know others may disagree and I would like to hear their perspective. From a pure financial perspective why is ISU trading a 1 for 1 home game with EIU? Is this one for one home game a gift to EIU or am I overstating ISU's athletic value vs EIU's?

Beyond EIU, if ISU is going to manufacture/promote an annual football rival game how about considering the following:
+promote playing a rival that the entire ISU university would like to be associated with in terms of academic profile/image...."You are who you hang or are associated with". This is the main reason I like the ISU / Bradley hoops rivalry and I do not like the EIU football rivalry. EIU is a struggling regional school and ISU should try to avoid being associated with EIU. It is also a reason I dislike to the Murray State addition to the MVC.
+if possible try to promote/manufacture a rivalry with a conference mate so that it can benefit all other ISU sports when those games are played

If the Texas vs Texas A&M and the Nebraska vs Oklahoma football rivalries can be discontinued due to bigger considerations then there is plenty of precedence to end this simple ISU vs EIU annual football rivalry game so that ISU can try to move onto something more meaningful....maybe we don't have a football rival game for awhile and just try to schedule better value opponents?

If we are talking promoting a conference rivalry as the "rivalry game", I think the only schools that really make sense would be SIU or UNI.

I'm curious if people on here would prefer an annual rivalry game with EIU or WIU?

 

[DougSutton]

I would say SIU. I miss the 90s when SIU and ISU basketball had a great rivalry going and this helped to fuel the rivalry in football. As a side note, part of me wishes the coaches weren't as nice to each other, or at least had stronger personalities. It helped with the fueling of the rivalries. I know this is the football board but we're all ISU fans. The best examples I remember were the 80s and 90s basketball rivalries. Donewald was never easy to like, even for our own fans and then you had Bradley with Vercase, SIU with Rich Herrin, Tubby Smith and Nolan Richardson (with his polka dot ties) at Tulsa. Stallings had a strong personality as well and there were some great MVC rivalries back then.

On the football side, during my college days in the 90s, it seemed like SIU was a solid rival. Geographically it makes sense. It really requires both teams to have sustained success and to be on a somewhat same level.

UNI is also an option.

 

[fourthandshort]

Unfortunately, as we all know .. rivalries are organic and grow over decades based on a variety of factors .. often times grievances born out of hard fought games over a period of time. Ironicallly. One of my favorite wins ever was EIU in 2012 .. QBs Brown and Garapolo put on an airshow .. we won in OT, walkoff TD. Aside from being a great game, it was the worst officiated game I've ever witnessed. Game got real chippy, but EIU was the instigator for most part .. that was their SOP back then. We went into that game averaging 2 penalties per game .. and officials threw 29 flags on us, and enforced 22 or so. But we got screwed badly .. that game gave the rivalry a huge lift.

 

[fourthandshort]

Unfortunately, as we all know .. rivalries are organic and grow over decades based on a variety of factors .. often times grievances born out of hard fought games over a period of time. Ironicallly. One of my favorite wins ever was EIU in 2012 .. QBs Brown and Garapolo put on an airshow .. we won in OT, walkoff TD. Aside from being a great game, it was the worst officiated game I've ever witnessed. Game got real chippy, but EIU was the instigator for most part .. that was their SOP back then. We went into that game averaging 2 penalties per game .. and officials threw 29 flags on us, and enforced 22 or so. But we got screwed badly .. that game gave the rivalry a huge lift.

I have to recount my "favorite" bad call story. EIU has ball 3rd and long. We flush Garapolo out of the pocket and he heds toward EIU sideline .. he can go for first and get his brains beat in and still not get the 1st down. Or he can come up 2 yards short and let his punter do this thing. He chose the latter. So did the chain gang, threy dropped the 1st down marker and got out of the way.

What happened next is the stuff of legend ... their special teams coach starts yelling for the punt team to get on the field, and they all do. So Garapolo runs out of bounds couple yards short, hand the ball to the ref, who promptly places the ball further than he got. Doesn't even let the chain gang set up to see if it is 1st down or not, and immediately waives them forward calling it a first down.

Next site and sound to behold ... their entire sideline yelling at the EIU punt team to get the hell off the field. Several of which came of field with their arms in air as if to say WTF happened ?

You can't make this sh-t up .. when do we play those punks next !!!!!!

 

[Reggie1857]

We don't have competitive FBS facilities. The weightroom is in the basketball building and is used by all sports. There is no real designated training table. Little fan support etc. I don't see a move to the MAC anytime soon.

Agreed! The history of laughably inept athletic dept "leadership" at Illinois State has put the dept AND university woefully behind of where it should be. The amount of squandered potential is obscene.

 

[cubird]

I think the athletic dept. has partially been limited by the history of the university being late expanding curriculum to attract potentially big money maker alumni ie new engineering degree.

 

[topiarydan]

I don't think EIU or WIU will be around in 7 years - I see EIU becoming a daughter campus of UofI - similar to Edwardsville, Springfield and Chicago. WIU is in an entirely different spot - tough road ahead. We need alums to contribute to a NIL fund

 

[fourthandshort]

Agreed! The history of laughably inept athletic dept "leadership" at Illinois State has put the dept AND university woefully behind of where it should be. The amount of squandered potential is obscene.

Sorry, but this sentiment is just not in touch with reality.

Compared to who, is our athletic dept "laughably inept" and "woefully behind" ? Aside from Power 5 U of I, who is not really even a fair comparison, what public D-I university in Illinois is doing better overall than ISU ?

NIU ? SIU ? WIU ? EIU ? Chicago State ? Northeastern ?

And how about compared to all of our MVC bretheren. What to make of this timely article on our site yesterday:

Illinois State Wins Fourth Consecutive MVC All-Sports Trophy​

Illinois State Wins Fourth Consecutive MVC All-Sports Trophy - Illinois State University Athletics

For the fourth-straight season, Illinois State has won the Missouri Valley Conference All-Sports Championship as announced by the Conference office Thursday. The

goredbirds.com

 

[Reggie1857]

NIU ? SIU ? WIU ? EIU ? Chicago State ? Northeastern ?

These are who you're comparing Illinois State to? Thank you for making my case for me.

 

[fourthandshort]

Reggie1857 .. I noticed you glossed right over the the 4th straight MVC All-Sports award thing.

And I listed every other notable D-I public university in IL.

 

[MadBird]

Sorry, but this sentiment is just not in touch with reality.

Compared to who, is our athletic dept "laughably inept" and "woefully behind" ? Aside from Power 5 U of I, who is not really even a fair comparison, what public D-I university in Illinois is doing better overall than ISU ?

NIU ? SIU ? WIU ? EIU ? Chicago State ? Northeastern ?

And how about compared to all of our MVC bretheren. What to make of this timely article on our site yesterday:

Illinois State Wins Fourth Consecutive MVC All-Sports Trophy​

Illinois State Wins Fourth Consecutive MVC All-Sports Trophy - Illinois State University Athletics

For the fourth-straight season, Illinois State has won the Missouri Valley Conference All-Sports Championship as announced by the Conference office Thursday. The

goredbirds.com

Amen brother!

 

[fourthandshort]

Amen brother!

thanks, and from the article itself .... obviously, it's time to clean house !!

ISU last won at least four-straight MVC All-Sports Championships in 1995-96, 1996-97, 1997-98 and 1998-99 when it was the league's top overall program in those four seasons. Notably, Illinois State has 16 all-sports crowns and has finished first, second, or third in 29 of the past 32 years.

 

[Virginia Redbird]

Probably just some frustration coming to the surface. There have been some rocky issues lately. The new AD was supposed to be the fundraising guru and then a quick and sudden resignation. The indoor facility that was funded and then one of the key benefactors is indicted and funding is uncertain. Redbird football has been disappointing for the past few years. It feels like one step forward and three steps back sometimes. If you look at it objectively though overall ISU is in pretty good shape especially compared to the other Illinois schools.

As far as Spack having the game move past him, well I don't know. He is almost halfway through his second decade as the Head Coach and overall he has been successful. I don't think the game has passed him by but I think coaches who stay in one spot for too long get comfortable and complacent. I am not saying he does not have the fire to win. Everyone wants to win but once you get too entrenched and too comfortable the fire burns more yellow than blue. With an interim AD nothing is changing in the near future anyway so interesting discussion but it is what it is...for now.

 

[Reggie Redbird]

I don't think EIU or WIU will be around in 7 years - I see EIU becoming a daughter campus of UofI - similar to Edwardsville, Springfield and Chicago. WIU is in an entirely different spot - tough road ahead. We need alums to contribute to a NIL fund

I think you may have SIU-E aligned with the wrong school, SIU’s system has two campuses, Carbondale and Edwardsville.

It might help WIU or EIU to align though or even combine leadership. A lot of savings that could go on combining departments.

 

[fourthandshort]

Probably just some frustration coming to the surface. There have been some rocky issues lately. The new AD was supposed to be the fundraising guru and then a quick and sudden resignation. The indoor facility that was funded and then one of the key benefactors is indicted and funding is uncertain. Redbird football has been disappointing for the past few years. It feels like one step forward and three steps back sometimes. If you look at it objectively though overall ISU is in pretty good shape especially compared to the other Illinois schools.

As far as Spack having the game move past him, well I don't know. He is almost halfway through his second decade as the Head Coach and overall he has been successful. I don't think the game has passed him by but I think coaches who stay in one spot for too long get comfortable and complacent. I am not saying he does not have the fire to win. Everyone wants to win but once you get too entrenched and too comfortable the fire burns more yellow than blue. With an interim AD nothing is changing in the near future anyway so interesting discussion but it is what it is...for now.

Hey Virginia ... 1857 actual was referring to our "history", in the context of not yet having some FBS level facilities to help get us to FBS. So it had nothing to do with recent events in AD Dept. So his complaint is a long term one.

I'm not saying he has to like or even settle for staying put - he is entitled to his opinions on FBS move or not. But describing our Athletic Dept as "laughably inept" and "woefully behind" ignores all of the success we've had relative to our "peer colleges". He's not alone, and I too have wondered what it would take to get to FBS, but only if it makes sense. So he seems to want to compare us where he (and others) think we should be, rather than where we are.

 

[topiarydan]

Hey Virginia ... 1857 actual was referring to our "history", in the context of not yet having some FBS level facilities to help get us to FBS. So it had nothing to do with recent events in AD Dept. So his complaint is a long term one.

I'm not saying he has to like or even settle for staying put - he is entitled to his opinions on FBS move or not. But describing our Athletic Dept as "laughably inept" and "woefully behind" ignores all of the success we've had relative to our "peer colleges". He's not alone, and I too have wondered what it would take to get to FBS, but only if it makes sense. So he seems to want to compare us where he (and others) think we should be, rather than where we are.

I don't think how tough it is now to coach a team in FCS - foremost we're now a minor league for FBS level schools (sure we get transfers in from FBS down but we're getting castoffs from their programs while many of our prime players we cultivate can be whisked away) and we're limited by our NIL funding effforts. As mentioned, we really need to look at affiliating with FBS on all fronts and since MVC is only a one bid hoops conference now (and will be) we should take our changes in MAC unless MVC can elevate to FBS in football and poach some back

 

[fourthandshort]

I don't think how tough it is now to coach a team in FCS - foremost we're now a minor league for FBS level schools (sure we get transfers in from FBS down but we're getting castoffs from their programs while many of our prime players we cultivate can be whisked away) and we're limited by our NIL funding effforts. As mentioned, we really need to look at affiliating with FBS on all fronts and since MVC is only a one bid hoops conference now (and will be) we should take our changes in MAC unless MVC can elevate to FBS in football and poach some back

valid point about transfer portal and NIL .. we lose more than we win on this front. But I don't know that MAC is "the" answer or even "a" answer.

 

[MadBird]

Pretty decent article about the WIU move to OVC and preserving rivalries with ISU and SIU. Sounds like there'll probably be games, but not every year. Didn't realize SIU has a regular game with SEMO similar to ours with EIU.

Western Illinois vies to keep rivalries with ISU, Southern alive for future years

Western Illinois is preparing to embark on its final season in the Missouri Valley Football Conference before moving to the Ohio Valley. What does this mean to its rivalries with Illinois State and…

prairiestatepigskin.com

 

[Aggie]

I don't think EIU or WIU will be around in 7 years - I see EIU becoming a daughter campus of UofI - similar to Edwardsville, Springfield and Chicago. WIU is in an entirely different spot - tough road ahead. We need alums to contribute to a NIL fund

Think you are correct on EIU getting absorbed by the U of whatever they can gobble up. I believe ISU should come up with a plan to be the parent university of WIU.

 

[ISUBird]

Think you are correct on EIU getting absorbed by the U of whatever they can gobble up. I believe ISU should come up with a plan to be the parent university of WIU.

If we somehow became the parent institution for WIU then I would want us to do the same for EIU. Really push the teaching aspect then.