Murray State Football to MVFC?

[ST_Lawson]

Unfortunately a school can’t jump to another conference. A school has to be invited by that other conference. I don’t get the impression ISU is high on their list of potential expansion candidates and the question remains if the MAC is even interested in expansion considering the Western Kentucky/Middle Tennessee fiasco a year or two ago.

Yeah, I think they pretty much answered that question at that point.

Since Marshall left in 2005, they haven't had any changes to the membership of the "full members." The last time they added a school for all/most sports was 1998 (Buffalo). They've flirted with football-only associate members with Central Florida from '02-'05, Temple from '07-'12, and UMass from '12-'15, but they had pretty much the perfect opportunity to add a couple of solid G5 FBS teams right on the edge of their conference footprint if they wanted to when WKU and MTSU were the few remaining teams in a CUSA that was falling apart.

That they didn't pull the trigger on that option pretty much says all you need to know. The MAC is happy with its 12 football teams and isn't going to be adding anyone anytime soon unless a future college conference shakeup pulls some of their existing members away.

 

[fourthandshort]

Yeah, I think they pretty much answered that question at that point.

Since Marshall left in 2005, they haven't had any changes to the membership of the "full members." The last time they added a school for all/most sports was 1998 (Buffalo). They've flirted with football-only associate members with Central Florida from '02-'05, Temple from '07-'12, and UMass from '12-'15, but they had pretty much the perfect opportunity to add a couple of solid G5 FBS teams right on the edge of their conference footprint if they wanted to when WKU and MTSU were the few remaining teams in a CUSA that was falling apart.

That they didn't pull the trigger on that option pretty much says all you need to know. The MAC is happy with its 12 football teams and isn't going to be adding anyone anytime soon unless a future college conference shakeup pulls some of their existing members away.

And my take from others here is MAC is far too football dominant and very compromised in that sense, at the expense of all other sports .. making it unappealing for all other sports anyway. Besides, who really wants to play or watch football on a Tues-Thur anyway ?

 

[Reggie Redbird]

Back in 2019, we signed a contract with Oklahoma for 2023, but Oklahoma postponed to 2025.

It’s been a while though since that move, hasn’t it? It just seems like we never did anything to address it. With our non-con, we can’t afford to lose any of those games. We should be pretty set up to win at least 7 games though.

I wouldn’t mind if Oklahoma bought us out of the 2025 game. I’d be happy to take a $250k-$300k payday to do that if we can get a more local opponent for a good rate.

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

And my take from others here is MAC is far too football dominant and very compromised in that sense, at the expense of all other sports .. making it unappealing for all other sports anyway. Besides, who really wants to play or watch football on a Tues-Thur anyway ?

seriously i would love to watch an isu football game on a week night esp if the games are televised.... too many competing high end college games on the weekends that are of interest. isu sports needs the exposure whenever/wherever they can get it.

 

[fourthandshort]

seriously i would love to watch an isu football game on a week night esp if the games are televised.... too many competing high end college games on the weekends that are of interest. isu sports needs the exposure whenever/wherever they can get it.

our fan base for attendance is just not strong enough to support weekday games. And I don't think going to MAC will cause much of a bump.

 

[Reggie1857]

nothing says more about the history and current state of ISU football than the fact that our football "rivalry" game is vs eiu.

That's pretty much Illinois State athletics, but especially football, in a nutshell. It's always been run with an eye towards what's easy , rather than what's right. They've always followed a path of least resistance rather than follow one that would allow them to reach their potential. It's truly sad how much potential has been squandered with this dept/university.

 

[isuquinndog]

Who should it be? Every one else in state is in the conference (until WIU leaves). We don't play any one else on any type of regular basis. Who should our "rival" be in football?

 

[fourthandshort]

Who should it be? Every one else in state is in the conference (until WIU leaves). We don't play any one else on any type of regular basis. Who should our "rival" be in football?

that and we've played over 100 times and used to be in same conference.

 

[Redbird222]

Who should it be? Every one else in state is in the conference (until WIU leaves). We don't play any one else on any type of regular basis. Who should our "rival" be in football?

Northwestern... they should be fuming we beat them last time and want revenge

 

[MadBird]

our fan base for attendance is just not strong enough to support weekday games. And I don't think going to MAC will cause much of a bump.

Well, if you've watched any of those MAC weekday games, fan support is not required. No matter which school is hosting, the stands are pretty empty. Money from ESPN is the purpose, and a lot of the geniuses on this board would be satisfied with that rather than playing weekend games when alums and parents and students can more conveniently attend.

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

Well, if you've watched any of those MAC weekday games, fan support is not required. No matter which school is hosting, the stands are pretty empty. Money from ESPN is the purpose, and a lot of the geniuses on this board would be satisfied with that rather than playing weekend games when alums and parents and students can more conveniently attend.

well it does not take a "genius" to understand that "alums and parents and students" can also watch the game on espn. if more "alums and parents and students" watch the game on espn than would otherwise be in attendance at an isu game that is a good thing esp if the overall total game revenue is larger. butts in the seat are nice but they are only a part of the equation....its all about total eyeballs watching be it from near or far away

 

[MadBird]

well it does not take a "genius" to understand that "alums and parents and students" can also watch the game on espn. if more "alums and parents and students" watch the game on espn than would otherwise be in attendance at an isu game that is a good thing esp if the overall total game revenue is larger. butts in the seat are nice but they are only a part of the equation....its all about total eyeballs watching be it from near or far away

Shows what I know - lotsa wasted dough on a new stadium. Here they could just be playing their games at the Normal parks department w/o all the trouble of a band and stadium and season tickets and all the rest of the BS.

 

[isuquinndog]

What does being in our conference have to do with being a rival or not? I always thought Bradley was our biggest rival in all the other sports.

Nothing. I just couldn't think of an MVFC team that we would be rivals with. SIU? I guess. Missouri State? I guess because of the field thing and COVID thing but that was just 3 years ago.

Rivals usually are over time and it has to be both ways. We can hate on NDSU but I don't think they think about us for 2 seconds. Not really a rival.

 

[fourthandshort]

Northwestern... they should be fuming we beat them last time and want revenge

Kidding aside .. I'll always remember that Northwestern win was something special. Couple things for perspective

• we had just lost Roberson/Coprich from 2015 - not to mention NFL guys like Oshaugnnessy, Meredith, Leidtke .. plus our entire OL and WR groups from 2014/15, not to mention usual turnover on defense.
• we won 9-7 and needed a walkoff FG to win, but it wasn't a fluke at all. First downs - we had 25 to their 16. Total yards - we had 372 to their 277. Time of possession 34:18 to 24:42. NU won TO battle 2 to 0 .. and our 2 picks ended drives of 69 and 44 yards, both 8 play drives, or we might have scored more. We definitely outplayed them
• NU was coming off 10-3 2015 season. And while the 2016 NU was 7-6, it is what I would call a very high quality 7-6 with close losses to 11-2 OSU, 11-3 Wisc, 13-1 WMU, 9-4 Minny and Nebraska. Then beat an 8-4 Pitt team that was ranked 22/23 before the bowl game and NU was 6-6 going into the game, but almost all quality losses against top 25 teams. The Minny game was largest margin at 29-12, but NU won or played even statistically.

That 2016 NU win was very impressive all things considered.

 

[TIMMY]

Counterpoint NIU played 4 Saturday games and 2 night games last year. Looks like the same this year. I'm not sure that and a 50/50 shot at a bowl game is such a bad deal. A move to the MAC makes NIU our biggest rival. With 85 full rides instead of 63 partials we kick their ass. And ESPN pays for it!
It's not going to happen but I'm not sure it's such a bad deal.

 

[FriscoBird90]

One thing that jumps out is that ISU held the Cats to their lowest offensive output of the season (tied with Wisconsin at 7), yet NU put 54 on Michigan State, 45 on Purdue, and 42 on that younger school down the road.

 

[BJJ guy]

We don't have competitive FBS facilities. The weightroom is in the basketball building and is used by all sports. There is no real designated training table. Little fan support etc. I don't see a move to the MAC anytime soon.

 

[Virginia Redbird]

We don't have competitive FBS facilities. The weightroom is in the basketball building and is used by all sports. There is no real designated training table. Little fan support etc. I don't see a move to the MAC anytime soon.

I thought there was a weight room in the football building. Maybe I am wrong.

 

[Virginia Redbird]

Counterpoint NIU played 4 Saturday games and 2 night games last year. Looks like the same this year. I'm not sure that and a 50/50 shot at a bowl game is such a bad deal. A move to the MAC makes NIU our biggest rival. With 85 full rides instead of 63 partials we kick their ass. And ESPN pays for it!
It's not going to happen but I'm not sure it's such a bad deal.

It does not matter much since I don't believe it is going to happen but frankly getting money from ESPN and some exposure (weeknights or not) is not a bad deal. It would be great to have a full stadium but it does not seem like that happens all that much anyway and a prime-time game will get more attention than an ESPN+ game on Saturday buried under big-time Power 5 games. Personally, I have soured on Power 5 football. The constant changes to conferences, portal, and NIL money is leaving me cold about it. Just my own personal opinion about Power 5 football so I watch ISU on ESPN+ every Saturday and don't even look at the Power 5 schedule. I would definitely watch ISU on a weeknight on ESPN. I can't get to Hancock anyway and I am pretty certain there are a lot of ISU alums in my position. Work and life took us away from Illinois but I still am interested in Redbird sports and ESPN+ lets me tune in and not just to football. I enjoy watching the ladies' volleyball games as well. If you can't get fans into Hancock, and it appears you can't, then why continue to beat yourself in the forehead with that 2X4? I think a good rivalry could develop with NIU. I would imagine the ESPN money is good so who gives a damn if people in Bloomington/Normal don't show up at Hancock? I think people are looking at this with far too much of a Bloomington/Normal-centric view. Being out of state I would love to tune in to a national game on ESPN on Tuesday night. I see lots of empty seats in the stands on ESPN+ on a Saturday afternoon anyway so what is the difference?
Having said all that...I know it is not going to happen so it makes no difference. I just think the argument of people not making it into the stadium is a pointless one. They are not filling Hancock anyway except on certain games like Homecoming and probably opening day. Take the money and get the exposure. I don't think it would hurt recruiting either.

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

Who should it be? Every one else in state is in the conference (until WIU leaves). We don't play any one else on any type of regular basis. Who should our "rival" be in football?

Good question and I am not sure I have the answer. Though we have played EIU many many times it seems as though the rivalry was somewhat manufactured via the creation of the Mid-American classic title about a decade ago. ISU should absolutely play EIU on occasion for ease of scheduling purposes but to have them be a focal point of ISU's football schedule on an annual basis does not make much financial/university image/fan interest sense to me. I know others may disagree and I would like to hear their perspective. From a pure financial perspective why is ISU trading a 1 for 1 home game with EIU? Is this one for one home game a gift to EIU or am I overstating ISU's athletic value vs EIU's?

Beyond EIU, if ISU is going to manufacture/promote an annual football rival game how about considering the following:
+promote playing a rival that the entire ISU university would like to be associated with in terms of academic profile/image...."You are who you hang or are associated with". This is the main reason I like the ISU / Bradley hoops rivalry and I do not like the EIU football rivalry. EIU is a struggling regional school and ISU should try to avoid being associated with EIU. It is also a reason I dislike to the Murray State addition to the MVC.
+if possible try to promote/manufacture a rivalry with a conference mate so that it can benefit all other ISU sports when those games are played

If the Texas vs Texas A&M and the Nebraska vs Oklahoma football rivalries can be discontinued due to bigger considerations then there is plenty of precedence to end this simple ISU vs EIU annual football rivalry game so that ISU can try to move onto something more meaningful....maybe we don't have a football rival game for awhile and just try to schedule better value opponents?