Elgin on MVC Scheduling

[ricohill]

https://www.tribstar.com/sports/local_college_sports/isu_sports/elgin-scheduling-continues-to-be-a-moving-target-for-mvc/article_601d70af-1d0e-5321-a88a-c57d58925151.html


When talking about further expansion....yikes.


"There are downsides in my opinion. You lose the round robin. If you look at the Power Five conferences, they lose that family atmosphere. Not that any of our coaches in the league look at their opponents as family, but that's the truth of the nature of our league, that we almost have a family atmosphere of everyone pulling together," Elgin said. "Imagine in your mind's eye, the larger conferences out there and they don't seem to have that same feel. The larger you get, the less that culture is likely to occur."

 

[Seven]

Yeah I came away really unimpressed. Valuing women’s basketball on equal footing with men’s? That explains the current state of men’s basketball.

Complaining about scheduling but turning down Murray State? Playing at Murray would’ve qualified as a Tier 1 game 5 of the last 10 years.

Elgin seems really closed-minded, imo.

 

[TIMMY]

https://www.tribstar.com/sports/local_college_sports/isu_sports/elgin-scheduling-continues-to-be-a-moving-target-for-mvc/article_601d70af-1d0e-5321-a88a-c57d58925151.html


When talking about further expansion....yikes.


"There are downsides in my opinion. You lose the round robin. If you look at the Power Five conferences, they lose that family atmosphere. Not that any of our coaches in the league look at their opponents as family, but that's the truth of the nature of our league, that we almost have a family atmosphere of everyone pulling together," Elgin said. "Imagine in your mind's eye, the larger conferences out there and they don't seem to have that same feel. The larger you get, the less that culture is likely to occur."

Family atmosphere and everyone pulling together to get that 15th seed. Yep. That's the MVC in a nutshell.

 

[SoCalRedbird]

Those remarks reek of the things currrently holding the Valley and ISU back from national relevance. These things include, but are certainly not limited to, ad campaigns like "your hometown team," Casey's general store advertising, Bob Morris, and our conference getting leapfrogged by peers while Elgin tells everyone on the sinking ship to not evacuate.

Ditch the small-time family atmosphere garbage. It's not working. It's not attractive anymore to students or recruits.

Evolve, Jim, or go be an assistant commish for the Illini Prairie Conference. In a job where everyone plays chess, you're playing checkers and keeping your kings in the back row. The NCAA game has upped its ante. Will you?



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[Redbird222]

If scheduling is an issue, then adding 2 quality teams and increasing the conference games from 18 to 20 helps that this too ... even if it is an unbalanced schedule.

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

If scheduling is an issue, then adding 2 quality teams and increasing the conference games from 18 to 20 helps that this too ... even if it is an unbalanced schedule.

Do not understand your logic. ISU can always schedule at their current level or lower so why lock into scheduling another two games at their current (mvc) level which will hurt ISU on a national basis? ISU needs keep an open schedule as much as possible to enhance their schedule vs scheduling on a lateral basis.

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

If scheduling is an issue, then adding 2 quality teams and increasing the conference games from 18 to 20 helps that this too ... even if it is an unbalanced schedule.

Do not understand your logic. ISU can always schedule at their current level or lower so why lock into scheduling another two games at their current (mvc) level which will hurt ISU on a national basis? ISU needs to keep an open schedule as much as possible to enhance their scheduling ability vs scheduling on a lateral basis.

 

[Redbird222]

If scheduling is an issue, then adding 2 quality teams and increasing the conference games from 18 to 20 helps that this too ... even if it is an unbalanced schedule.

Do not understand your logic. ISU can always schedule at their current level or lower so why lock into scheduling another two games at their current (mvc) level which will hurt ISU on a national basis? ISU needs keep an open schedule as much as possible to enhance their schedule vs scheduling on a lateral basis.

Elgin' s responsibility is for the entire league and is indicating that finances don't allow MVC teams to buy lower Division 1 teams at will and most P5 teams are reluctant to schedule mid major competition and instead elect to schedule lower Division 1. Also most P5 schools have 2 less nonconference schedule games. If you can get a game two with a P5 than schedule it but i think the real issue for the league (as a whole) is making a quality nonconference schedule. The entire conference also loses a quality nonconference game when the MWC challenege game goes away next year. Adding 2 more games for the entire conference against a Murray or Belmont would most likely boost the league as whole vs some teams that have elected to schedule multiple D2 teams or several very lower level D1 teams.

 

[jamminjamarsmiley]

This is the nail in the coffin for the MVC. Dougie wants to keep the family culture and atmosphere above all else.... This is really pathetic. Those 15 seeds will be commonplace for years to come. Evolve or die Doug -- the MVC is going to die.

Why Elgin has not looked seriously to add Grand Canyon U is baffling to me.

 

[ricohill]

The scheduling thing is annoying because Elgin and mid-majors think they need to game the system....instead of winning games.

I know the stance of the MVC is buy games are bad, but don’t complain about not getting Power 5 wins when you take your ball and go home if they won’t play you on your terms. Life isn’t fair and Duke isn’t going to play a home and home with ISU.

I’m not saying MVC teams need to go the Texas Southern route and play 12 buy games, but I would require 2 buy games a year. That would put at least $200,000 in each teams budget (which most desperately need to compete), get two games against power 5 teams, increase SOS, and a chance to get a win that would matter come selection time. I guarantee we could call up Kentucky, Louisville, Michigan State and have a game against them in about an hour and if we worked hard enough get some 2 for 1’s to have a home game. You get 9 non-conference games plus 3 in an MTE, so with 2 buy games you can go schedule 7 bad teams if you want and probably end up with the same record except with a bigger budget and a chance at beating a good team.

I don’t take the league scheduling seriously when each year teams are playing 1 to 2 non-division 1 games a year. Those should be eliminated. There is no point in playing those teams during the regular season. If you are concerned about playing a cupcake around finals, I’m pretty sure you can schedule your exhibition games whenever you want so classify it as an exhibition game and not count it towards your schedule. All those games are for is padding coaches win-loss record.

 

[jamminjamarsmiley]

The scheduling thing is annoying because Elgin and mid-majors think they need to game the system....instead of winning games.

I know the stance of the MVC is buy games are bad, but don’t complain about not getting Power 5 wins when you take your ball and go home if they won’t play you on your terms. Life isn’t fair and Duke isn’t going to play a home and home with ISU.

I’m not saying MVC teams need to go the Texas Southern route and play 12 buy games, but I would require 2 buy games a year. That would put at least $200,000 in each teams budget (which most desperately need to compete), get two games against power 5 teams, increase SOS, and a chance to get a win that would matter come selection time. I guarantee we could call up Kentucky, Louisville, Michigan State and have a game against them in about an hour and if we worked hard enough get some 2 for 1’s to have a home game. You get 9 non-conference games plus 3 in an MTE, so with 2 buy games you can go schedule 7 bad teams if you want and probably end up with the same record except with a bigger budget and a chance at beating a good team.

I don’t take the league scheduling seriously when each year teams are playing 1 to 2 non-division 1 games a year. Those should be eliminated. There is no point in playing those teams during the regular season. If you are concerned about playing a cupcake around finals, I’m pretty sure you can schedule your exhibition games whenever you want so classify it as an exhibition game and not count it towards your schedule. All those games are for is padding coaches win-loss record.

I agree on several points. Dan has always said he doesn't like buy games and wants home and homes. That is nice and dandy, but very seldom is a power school going to do that. Yes - I know the ole miss story... However - What does it hurt to go play at Kentucky, Kansas, Michigan St etc? You may get blown out, but you take a nice paycheck home, and your players get to say they got to play at one of those schools. If I was a recruit, and you told me we would go play Kentucky next year, I would find that exciting. Dan has played at Kentucky and Louisville (dont think Louisville was his call though). I would prefer he do more of that.

Yes- stop playing Quincy or Lindenwood. Those games do absolutely nothing for the program.

 

[ricohill]

The scheduling thing is annoying because Elgin and mid-majors think they need to game the system....instead of winning games.

I know the stance of the MVC is buy games are bad, but don’t complain about not getting Power 5 wins when you take your ball and go home if they won’t play you on your terms. Life isn’t fair and Duke isn’t going to play a home and home with ISU.

I’m not saying MVC teams need to go the Texas Southern route and play 12 buy games, but I would require 2 buy games a year. That would put at least $200,000 in each teams budget (which most desperately need to compete), get two games against power 5 teams, increase SOS, and a chance to get a win that would matter come selection time. I guarantee we could call up Kentucky, Louisville, Michigan State and have a game against them in about an hour and if we worked hard enough get some 2 for 1’s to have a home game. You get 9 non-conference games plus 3 in an MTE, so with 2 buy games you can go schedule 7 bad teams if you want and probably end up with the same record except with a bigger budget and a chance at beating a good team.

I don’t take the league scheduling seriously when each year teams are playing 1 to 2 non-division 1 games a year. Those should be eliminated. There is no point in playing those teams during the regular season. If you are concerned about playing a cupcake around finals, I’m pretty sure you can schedule your exhibition games whenever you want so classify it as an exhibition game and not count it towards your schedule. All those games are for is padding coaches win-loss record.

I agree on several points. Dan has always said he doesn't like buy games and wants home and homes. That is nice and dandy, but very seldom is a power school going to do that. Yes - I know the ole miss story... However - What does it hurt to go play at Kentucky, Kansas, Michigan St etc? You may get blown out, but you take a nice paycheck home, and your players get to say they got to play at one of those schools. If I was a recruit, and you told me we would go play Kentucky next year, I would find that exciting. Dan has played at Kentucky and Louisville (dont think Louisville was his call though). I would prefer he do more of that.

Yes- stop playing Quincy or Lindenwood. Those games do absolutely nothing for the program.

Recruiting?? We have Karl Malone next year....

I agree, it is huge for recruiting as well. Plus, fires up the fan base and increases interest in the program.

 

[DaveBird10]

The scheduling thing is annoying because Elgin and mid-majors think they need to game the system....instead of winning games.

I know the stance of the MVC is buy games are bad, but don’t complain about not getting Power 5 wins when you take your ball and go home if they won’t play you on your terms. Life isn’t fair and Duke isn’t going to play a home and home with ISU.

I’m not saying MVC teams need to go the Texas Southern route and play 12 buy games, but I would require 2 buy games a year. That would put at least $200,000 in each teams budget (which most desperately need to compete), get two games against power 5 teams, increase SOS, and a chance to get a win that would matter come selection time. I guarantee we could call up Kentucky, Louisville, Michigan State and have a game against them in about an hour and if we worked hard enough get some 2 for 1’s to have a home game. You get 9 non-conference games plus 3 in an MTE, so with 2 buy games you can go schedule 7 bad teams if you want and probably end up with the same record except with a bigger budget and a chance at beating a good team.

I don’t take the league scheduling seriously when each year teams are playing 1 to 2 non-division 1 games a year. Those should be eliminated. There is no point in playing those teams during the regular season. If you are concerned about playing a cupcake around finals, I’m pretty sure you can schedule your exhibition games whenever you want so classify it as an exhibition game and not count it towards your schedule. All those games are for is padding coaches win-loss record.

I agree on several points. Dan has always said he doesn't like buy games and wants home and homes. That is nice and dandy, but very seldom is a power school going to do that. Yes - I know the ole miss story... However - What does it hurt to go play at Kentucky, Kansas, Michigan St etc? You may get blown out, but you take a nice paycheck home, and your players get to say they got to play at one of those schools. If I was a recruit, and you told me we would go play Kentucky next year, I would find that exciting. Dan has played at Kentucky and Louisville (dont think Louisville was his call though). I would prefer he do more of that.

Yes- stop playing Quincy or Lindenwood. Those games do absolutely nothing for the program.

Dan has scheduled buy games @kentucky and @Louisville. Be upset at Dan for other things but Dan does schedule really good non-conference teams.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[ricohill]

The scheduling thing is annoying because Elgin and mid-majors think they need to game the system....instead of winning games.

I know the stance of the MVC is buy games are bad, but don’t complain about not getting Power 5 wins when you take your ball and go home if they won’t play you on your terms. Life isn’t fair and Duke isn’t going to play a home and home with ISU.

I’m not saying MVC teams need to go the Texas Southern route and play 12 buy games, but I would require 2 buy games a year. That would put at least $200,000 in each teams budget (which most desperately need to compete), get two games against power 5 teams, increase SOS, and a chance to get a win that would matter come selection time. I guarantee we could call up Kentucky, Louisville, Michigan State and have a game against them in about an hour and if we worked hard enough get some 2 for 1’s to have a home game. You get 9 non-conference games plus 3 in an MTE, so with 2 buy games you can go schedule 7 bad teams if you want and probably end up with the same record except with a bigger budget and a chance at beating a good team.

I don’t take the league scheduling seriously when each year teams are playing 1 to 2 non-division 1 games a year. Those should be eliminated. There is no point in playing those teams during the regular season. If you are concerned about playing a cupcake around finals, I’m pretty sure you can schedule your exhibition games whenever you want so classify it as an exhibition game and not count it towards your schedule. All those games are for is padding coaches win-loss record.

I agree on several points. Dan has always said he doesn't like buy games and wants home and homes. That is nice and dandy, but very seldom is a power school going to do that. Yes - I know the ole miss story... However - What does it hurt to go play at Kentucky, Kansas, Michigan St etc? You may get blown out, but you take a nice paycheck home, and your players get to say they got to play at one of those schools. If I was a recruit, and you told me we would go play Kentucky next year, I would find that exciting. Dan has played at Kentucky and Louisville (dont think Louisville was his call though). I would prefer he do more of that.

Yes- stop playing Quincy or Lindenwood. Those games do absolutely nothing for the program.

Dan has scheduled buy games @kentucky and @Louisville. Be upset at Dan for other things but Dan does schedule really good non-conference teams.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

I hate this argument. He’s tricked people into believing he’s scheduled really well. Our non-conference schedules are better than Jank (low bar), but far from great. His non-conference schedule in 17 cost us an at-large bid because we only played 2 top 100 teams in non-conference.

 

[Redbird222]

I would rather a buy game with a P5 or Big East team than a D2 home game buy I think it will be harder and harder given the changing landscape


I believe you get 30 or 31 regular season games pending your tournament. There continues to be a decreasing number of available games to olay these teams. For example, Big Ten teams play 20 conference games, 3 games im a tournament
2 games with conference challenge commitments (Big East and ACC) and the better teams like Michigan St are usually adding one other quality opponents. This means 25 - 26 games are accounted for and they will schedule 4 -6 additional games (usually home) and against lower level teams .... (lower cost for buy game, higher probability win for record and fans, and just like we schedule D2 games lesser opponent to work on things and less intense games). This is why Iowa and Iowa St wanted out of the traditional games with Drake and UNI. I am not saying it is impossible for a buy game but i think that has even changed recently.

 

[Redbird222]

Big 12 and Big East teams still have 18 game conference Schedule and one conference challenge game so they have more availability but there are also fewer teams.

 

[Trey_Guidry4three]

I agree on several points. Dan has always said he doesn't like buy games and wants home and homes. That is nice and dandy, but very seldom is a power school going to do that. Yes - I know the ole miss story... However - What does it hurt to go play at Kentucky, Kansas, Michigan St etc? You may get blown out, but you take a nice paycheck home, and your players get to say they got to play at one of those schools. If I was a recruit, and you told me we would go play Kentucky next year, I would find that exciting. Dan has played at Kentucky and Louisville (dont think Louisville was his call though). I would prefer he do more of that.

Yes- stop playing Quincy or Lindenwood. Those games do absolutely nothing for the program.

Dan has scheduled buy games @kentucky and @Louisville. Be upset at Dan for other things but Dan does schedule really good non-conference teams.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

I hate this argument. He’s tricked people into believing he’s scheduled really well. Our non-conference schedules are better than Jank (low bar), but far from great. His non-conference schedule in 17 cost us an at-large bid because we only played 2 top 100 teams in non-conference.

The reality is that when these non conference schedules come out 1 to 2 years out nobody knows if anybody is any good. I can see Davebirds point that Muller has scheduled some big names that we haven't played at ISU for decades. Problem is we didn't win so it is just another L in the common loss column. Unless we get a home game out of it or paid a lot of $$$ the elite program games are pointless. Rico- what types of teams would you like to see us schedule?

 

[chuckie1980]

I like reading all of this chatter....but...all the effort Muller attempts to direct to his scheduling...it getting to be a waste. No matter how hard he tries to schedule good....the NCAA Div1 environment fights against his efforts...and any silver cloud type big game planned....even tends to be twerked by NCAA Div1 to become less meaningless and helpful for a mid major Redbird school to keep the benefit of the scheduling....

Elgin's and MVC collective effort....hits roadblock after roadblock in trying to keep the conference competitive.

Maybe Elgin's and the MVC collective need to change they scheduling policies but if a school does not have HUGE bucks...it is getting to be a waste of time each new season.

Maybe Muller needs to change his scheduling policies but if a school does not have HUGE bucks...it is getting to be a waste of time each new season.

 

[jamminjamarsmiley]

I am anticipating Dan will soften the schedule as his seat gets warmer.

 

[ricohill]

Dan has scheduled buy games @kentucky and @Louisville. Be upset at Dan for other things but Dan does schedule really good non-conference teams.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

I hate this argument. He’s tricked people into believing he’s scheduled really well. Our non-conference schedules are better than Jank (low bar), but far from great. His non-conference schedule in 17 cost us an at-large bid because we only played 2 top 100 teams in non-conference.

The reality is that when these non conference schedules come out 1 to 2 years out nobody knows if anybody is any good. I can see Davebirds point that Muller has scheduled some big names that we haven't played at ISU for decades. Problem is we didn't win so it is just another L in the common loss column. Unless we get a home game out of it or paid a lot of $$$ the elite program games are pointless. Rico- what types of teams would you like to see us schedule?

If I was putting together the perfect mid-major schedule right now taking all factors into consideration:

2 games against name power 5 schools. Every year ISU should play Kentucky, Marquette, Syracuse, Louisville, Wisconsin, Tennessee etc... that people actual have heard of. It is $$$, it is exposure, it is opportunity, it excites the fan base. Plus, if you ever want a shot at an at-large bid you have to win one of those games. What started Wichta's run was going out to Syracuse and winning.

3 against peer high level mid-majors or low level power 5. Teams that could potentially be tournament teams. Need 3 games against Belmont's, Lipsombs, Furman, BYU, Nevada, SDSU, Penn State, Missouri, Georgia, Vandy, etc....

4 games against low level teams (guarantee wins) - need to beat up on bad teams to run up efficiency numbers for NET.

Then a decent MTE, which now is basically 2 decent games and possibly a chance against 1 good power 5 depending on results. However, I will be very upset if we end up playing Valpo in the MTE we are in this year.