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CaliRdBrd

CaliRdBrd

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SgtHulka said:
I don't think recruiting quality was a major contributor. He brought in many players who ended up playing pro, excelling here , or excelling wherever they transferred to. Mostly it was a product of a handful of head cases he gambled on and failed, and not being able to retain, give the good ones A reason to stay. Churn was his primary downfall.
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He clearly was able to get talent, but I’ll call them “athletes”, but it always seemed like the wrong kind of athlete. In addition, he never developed these athletes. Either that or he just kept cramming the proverbial square peg into the round hole.
 
Hamdonger

Hamdonger

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CaliRdBrd said:
In addition, he never developed these athletes.
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I keep reading this in various posts from various posters.

Didn't Jackie get better in his one yr under DM? Paris? Tony Wills? MiKyle? Deontae? Keyshawn from his freshman to junior year? Phil freakin' Fayne didn't get better?? Matt Hein?? (just kidding, but we love ya MattyPrez) Madison, Chastain, and Bruninga all would have been major contributors long term if not for injury...and I personally think Bruninga could have been 1st team MVC). Fisher didn't show massive improvement in the last half of his one full year here? DJ didn't double his offensive production from fresh to soph (despite an attitude problem that was kept under the radar). Antonio didn't get better?????? I met Antonio on campus in the summer before his freshman season. He's the skinniest kid I've ever seen come into ISU. From that time until now...major development went on...physically, mentally, game production. He was not recruited heavily because of that frame. Muller gets no credit for landing and developing him??

Now CLEARLY our trajectory starting with 17-18...into a nosedive last 2 years...demanded a change, no matter the adversity or reasons.

But to blanket statement say that DM didn't develop players...well, that is a pissed-off-because-ISU-isn't-winning statement - which, brother, I empathize with...but it is not an accurate one.

Excited about the new staff (I really like our staff) and the possibilities.👊
 
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RedbirdSoxFan

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CaliRdBrd said:
I’m guessing if they averaged 7points in the Big Ten the thought is they’d have done slightly better in the Valley…if they had a decent coach.

Additionally- and this is just my opinion - “some time” at a Big Ten school that regularly competes in the NCAA tournament is a helluva lot better than slightly better statistics at a mid major regularly exiting their own mediocre conference on Thursday nights.
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I’ve seen a few players transfer from ISU that hurt. Off the top of my head:

Victor Williams
Marcus Arnold
Nic Moore
Reggie Lynch
Mikyle McIntosh
Deonte Hawkins
DJ Horne
Antonio Reeves
Howard Fleming Jr
Sy Chatman

But I can promise you, I did not lose a minute of sleep when Jon Ekey, Nick Zeisloft, or Johnny Hill announced their departure. I would take any of the above players over any of these three. None of these three leaving kept the Redbirds out of the NCAA Tournament. I was sad to see Zach Lofton go, but not Nick Zeisloft back in 2014.
 
R

Redbirdfan06

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RedbirdSoxFan said:
I’ve seen a few players transfer from ISU that hurt. Off the top of my head:

Victor Williams
Marcus Arnold
Nic Moore
Reggie Lynch
Mikyle McIntosh
Deonte Hawkins
DJ Horne
Antonio Reeves
Howard Fleming Jr
Sy Chatman

But I can promise you, I did not lose a minute of sleep when Jon Ekey, Nick Zeisloft, or Johnny Hill announced their departure. I would take any of the above players over any of these three. None of these three leaving kept the Redbirds out of the NCAA Tournament. I was sad to see Zach Lofton go, but not Nick Zeisloft back in 2014.
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Yeah, and none of the players you listed above got the Redbirds to the tournament as well.

I feel like you are comparing apples and oranges. No one is saying ekey, zeisloft, and hill are on par with the players above (other than Fleming who’s numbers don’t jump off the board). But they were solid role players at ISU and eventually became solid role players at big ten schools. And those guys would played if they stuck around. Wouldn’t have been stars, but would have had a role.
 
B

BirdGrad2011

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Yogi said:
how about we let Dan move on I support the birds our coach is new I hope he brings back the glory days I wish Dan well but lets move on
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Talking about past rosters and players will never change. Especially as a new coach recruits a different area or type of player. Always going to be comparisons.
 
CaliRdBrd

CaliRdBrd

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Humdinger said:
I keep reading this in various posts from various posters.

Didn't Jackie get better in his one yr under DM? Paris? Tony Wills? MiKyle? Deontae? Keyshawn from his freshman to junior year? Phil freakin' Fayne didn't get better?? Matt Hein?? (just kidding, but we love ya MattyPrez) Madison, Chastain, and Bruninga all would have been major contributors long term if not for injury...and I personally think Bruninga could have been 1st team MVC). Fisher didn't show massive improvement in the last half of his one full year here? DJ didn't double his offensive production from fresh to soph (despite an attitude problem that was kept under the radar). Antonio didn't get better?????? I met Antonio on campus in the summer before his freshman season. He's the skinniest kid I've ever seen come into ISU. From that time until now...major development went on...physically, mentally, game production. He was not recruited heavily because of that frame. Muller gets no credit for landing and developing him??

Now CLEARLY our trajectory starting with 17-18...into a nosedive last 2 years...demanded a change, no matter the adversity or reasons.

But to blanket statement say that DM didn't develop players...well, that is a pissed-off-because-ISU-isn't-winning statement - which, brother, I empathize with...but it is not an accurate one.

Excited about the new staff (I really like our staff) and the possibilities.👊
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Good points. All those guys got better. I guess you could question who developed them and maybe it was Muller. If so, I apologize.
The other side of my statement could be, with so many decent, much improved, players, why weren’t we better.
So much water under the bridge here, so feel feee to put this to rest.
 
R

Redbird222

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CaliRdBrd said:
Good points. All those guys got better. I guess you could question who developed them and maybe it was Muller. If so, I apologize.
The other side of my statement could be, with so many decent, much improved, players, why weren’t we better.
So much water under the bridge here, so feel feee to put this to rest.
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I think as in most cases there is more than one reason

1. Roster churn was a reason throughout his tenure. The second year when Jank's players left was almost expected. Remember Muller was hired very late making it more difficult to leave that first year. Beside Reggie Lynch, we seemed to maintain our better players the first 5 years. The players that left the first 5 years tended to be backup or role players. Nevertheless there was too much turnover
2. I believe the assistant coaches were stronger the first 5 years. You had recruiters that brought in talent and by all means Yak was a teacher.
3. I think the recruited talent dropped off after 2017 for 2 or 3 years. I do think last year's team was moving back in the right direction talent wise
4. A little bit of luck could have helped. There were injuries like Williams, bruniga, Chastain, and Clarance. All of them could have contributed. Solid role players lost years off of their careers. Clarance leaving in August certainly hurt the point guard plans that year. Copleand missing a class and sitting 2018 hurt that team as well. 2 crazy half court losses.
5. I feel the front court was under valued at times. There seemed to be a greater premium on combo guards and wings. We seemed like we had talent there most of the years but lacked an inside presence too often. See what happened when Chatman got hurt this year.

I know everyone likes to bash the offense but it was decent last year .... our defensive rebounding not so much.

Oh well. Time to look forward and see what the new regime is able to accomplish.
 
isuquinndog

isuquinndog

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ISU86

ISU86

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isuquinndog said:
Convenient the article doesn't mention his pretty big injury he's coming off of. No mention how is recovery is going or anything like that.
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details, details ... don't let a little thing such as actual fact get in the way of a story 😅
 
A

Adunk33

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Sy heads back to the Northeast and is going to Buffalo.

He had 21 points when the Birds played them last November. Must’ve caught Coach’s eye then. Birds scored 90 points and lost by 16.
 
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