#3 Illinois State vs #1 Loyola

[ISU FAN 1]

Wasn’t attitude. Guy is a team player. Talent was the issue.

all I know is that they were happy with him going elsewhere. Some posters on here make it seem like it was a big deal when he chose to transfer to ISU, and hopefully that is the case, but it is contrary to what I hear/.

You guys are full of shit about Chastain, Porter didn't want to release him to another Valley team. The kid is good and will make a difference for our team.

who we don't need is Madison who can't make a shot and we can't afford a defense only player, EC that has no talent and no hope, the ghost of Romine or Hein,

Speaking of Porter, he has become a very good coach, when he came to ISU our athletic department was a mess, if I remember right we had 2 or 3 AD's during his tenure. Sure he wasn't as good then working and learning from Maheras made him who he is. He was a class act and tried to instill some enthusiasm with our fans and students.

Good for him

I can't wait to see "The Truth" Chastain hit the court.

And yes, we need to free up scholarships held by one trick ponies, and sadly, no trick ponies.

 

[ISU FAN 1]

Y'all need to bookmark these things ur saying about EC and MW, I remember the same things being said about Paris and Tony. Couple years ago. Birds got stomped in the championship game, I know it sucks. These two ain't gonna b the problem next year.

same with Tinsley just a couple of weeks ago

Well, we still appear to making 2018 offers. That tells me Dan is planning on openings.

 

[BallwinBird2012]

Y'all need to bookmark these things ur saying about EC and MW, I remember the same things being said about Paris and Tony. Couple years ago. Birds got stomped in the championship game, I know it sucks. These two ain't gonna b the problem next year.

same with Tinsley just a couple of weeks ago

I have no issue with EC or MW. I definitely can see the comparison between MW and and Tony, and even if all MW can do is play D, at least he brings SOMETHING to the table.

Dan must have issues with EC or something. To not be getting minutes over Hein or Gassman blows my mind. It's not like Bruninga played lights out this season, but he still got consistent minutes as a Frosh to help him develop and get in game experience. Unfortunately, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see EC transfer out, which is too bad. I know he didn't play all that well, but he seemed to be improving at the end of the season, and I think the potential is really there.

 

[BallwinBird2012]

Another disappointing Sunday in St Louis the first weekend of March. It is great that we have gotten to the championship game more than any team in the conference the last decade but it sure would be nice to win one again.

I'm starting to wonder if our style of play is a factor in our Sunday showings. They say that you live by the 3 and you die by the 3 and our offense is definitely built around shooting the 3. By Sunday those 3's that were going in a little more frequently start not going in. Yes we attacked the rim a little early in the game and missed some of those shots that we usually make. And yes there were some questionable fouls that hurt us. But our offense too many times down the floor consists of passing it around a few times and then shooting a 3 without even trying to get the ball inside. Watching Loyola pass the ball compared to us, it was shocking how much better they are at it.

With that being said, I still support Dan. You also have to have the players to make the plays and we've definitely had our share of players leaving, injuries that hurt player development, etc. HOPEFULLY none of our key players leave unexpectedly after this season and next year we can break our championship game losing streak.

Like every year, I still had a great time with my son. He's 11 and him telling me that he looks forward to going to the tournament every year with me made it all worth it.

Go You Redbirds!

My biggest issue with style of play is that everyone (posters, in game analysts, etc..) always comment on our teams length and athleticism, but we never really seem to use that to our advantage. When I think of teams with length and athleticism, I think of teams that press on D and try to create turnovers to get easy buckets. I think of teams that are great in transition on O. I think of teams that slash to the hoop and finish at the rim or get fouled. We don't really seem to do any of those things all that well IMO. We do tend to just pass around the perimeter until someone jacks up a 3 which can be effective if you have a bunch of dudes who can actually make them (last years team). This year we had Key and sometimes Tinsley that could CONSISTENTLY hit from outside. I have thoroughly enjoyed watched MY drive to the hoop this season, even when he dribbles it off his foot...Teams that drive get rewarded. Look at foul totals from yesterday. Call it terrible officiating, but teams that play outside the 3 point line don't draw nearly as many fouls as teams that drive.

Yesterday we died because we couldn't even convert the bunnies.

 

[ISU FAN 1]

Y'all need to bookmark these things ur saying about EC and MW, I remember the same things being said about Paris and Tony. Couple years ago. Birds got stomped in the championship game, I know it sucks. These two ain't gonna b the problem next year.

same with Tinsley just a couple of weeks ago

I have no issue with EC or MW. I definitely can see the comparison between MW and and Tony, and even if all MW can do is play D, at least he brings SOMETHING to the table.

Dan must have issues with EC or something. To not be getting minutes over Hein or Gassman blows my mind. It's not like Bruninga played lights out this season, but he still got consistent minutes as a Frosh to help him develop and get in game experience. Unfortunately, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see EC transfer out, which is too bad. I know he didn't play all that well, but he seemed to be improving at the end of the season, and I think the potential is really there.

Dan seems clear that players earn their minutes in practice. That tells me EC wasn't getting it done there by comparison. Dan apparently not interested in gifting in game development minutes to players. Probably a good policy to properly motivate the troops.

 

[V Boy]

Y'all need to bookmark these things ur saying about EC and MW, I remember the same things being said about Paris and Tony. Couple years ago. Birds got stomped in the championship game, I know it sucks. These two ain't gonna b the problem next year.

same with Tinsley just a couple of weeks ago

I have no issue with EC or MW. I definitely can see the comparison between MW and and Tony, and even if all MW can do is play D, at least he brings SOMETHING to the table.

Dan must have issues with EC or something. To not be getting minutes over Hein or Gassman blows my mind. It's not like Bruninga played lights out this season, but he still got consistent minutes as a Frosh to help him develop and get in game experience. Unfortunately, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see EC transfer out, which is too bad. I know he didn't play all that well, but he seemed to be improving at the end of the season, and I think the potential is really there.

I think the comparison between Williams and Wills is a decent one. Williams is probably ahead of Wills as a defensive player by soph year.

But is that really the right question to ask?

We are trying to win championships. And we desperately need a 2G who can shoot the basketball and get to the rim. And Williams can’t. Maybe he’ll be a little better next year. But we can’t afford to go from 5ppg to 7ppg next year. We need a 2G who will average 12-14 ppg at least.

Realistically, Evans and Fayne scoring average should go down next year. They are not the types of players who should be creating their own shots. They are alley oop/hit open jump shot type players. So is Tinsley.

We need players who can finish at the rim off the bounce (like Lee was able to do end of last year).

 

[V Boy]

same with Tinsley just a couple of weeks ago

I have no issue with EC or MW. I definitely can see the comparison between MW and and Tony, and even if all MW can do is play D, at least he brings SOMETHING to the table.

Dan must have issues with EC or something. To not be getting minutes over Hein or Gassman blows my mind. It's not like Bruninga played lights out this season, but he still got consistent minutes as a Frosh to help him develop and get in game experience. Unfortunately, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see EC transfer out, which is too bad. I know he didn't play all that well, but he seemed to be improving at the end of the season, and I think the potential is really there.

Dan seems clear that players earn their minutes in practice. That tells me EC wasn't getting it done there by comparison. Dan apparently not interested in gifting in game development minutes to players. Probably a good policy to properly motivate the troops.

Others have said this, but I think it was more about his in-game defense. Constantly getting beaten. Can’t stay in front of his man.

The bigger concern is if the effort was there in practice and the in-game performance causes him to get pulled almost immediately on a repeat basis.....then should we worry?

 

[ISU FAN 1]

Another disappointing Sunday in St Louis the first weekend of March. It is great that we have gotten to the championship game more than any team in the conference the last decade but it sure would be nice to win one again.

I'm starting to wonder if our style of play is a factor in our Sunday showings. They say that you live by the 3 and you die by the 3 and our offense is definitely built around shooting the 3. By Sunday those 3's that were going in a little more frequently start not going in. Yes we attacked the rim a little early in the game and missed some of those shots that we usually make. And yes there were some questionable fouls that hurt us. But our offense too many times down the floor consists of passing it around a few times and then shooting a 3 without even trying to get the ball inside. Watching Loyola pass the ball compared to us, it was shocking how much better they are at it.

With that being said, I still support Dan. You also have to have the players to make the plays and we've definitely had our share of players leaving, injuries that hurt player development, etc. HOPEFULLY none of our key players leave unexpectedly after this season and next year we can break our championship game losing streak.

Like every year, I still had a great time with my son. He's 11 and him telling me that he looks forward to going to the tournament every year with me made it all worth it.

Go You Redbirds!

My biggest issue with style of play is that everyone (posters, in game analysts, etc..) always comment on our teams length and athleticism, but we never really seem to use that to our advantage. When I think of teams with length and athleticism, I think of teams that press on D and try to create turnovers to get easy buckets. I think of teams that are great in transition on O. I think of teams that slash to the hoop and finish at the rim or get fouled. We don't really seem to do any of those things all that well IMO. We do tend to just pass around the perimeter until someone jacks up a 3 which can be effective if you have a bunch of dudes who can actually make them (last years team). This year we had Key and sometimes Tinsley that could CONSISTENTLY hit from outside. I have thoroughly enjoyed watched MY drive to the hoop this season, even when he dribbles it off his foot...Teams that drive get rewarded. Look at foul totals from yesterday. Call it terrible officiating, but teams that play outside the 3 point line don't draw nearly as many fouls as teams that drive.

Yesterday we died because we couldn't even convert the bunnies.

I agree with your mapping of player type to game style assessment. But that style requires a lot more depth than we had this year. And quite frankly, talent. Last year's team was a better representation of what we can be with the right players and depth. I like Dan and want him here. But he's not going to make lemonade from a roster with too many lemons. I'm a big players make coaches, rather than coaches make players guy. Got to have the horses, and we just didn't this year. This roster has too many whiffs. It's on Dan to build the roster, and I get that it's difficult when he has two would be all conference first teamers this year leave late in the game to go to Oregon and BC. I have little doubt there would be streaking in the quad yesterday, had those 2 stayed.

 

[redneckredbird]

Vboy, isn't EC the player we really needed this year in your opinion? Clearly able to get to the tin but not there yet in decision making? If that slides Keyshawn to the 2 spot we r so much better imo. We need MW to take a big stride in defense, but you need a guy to b able to guard their best peremiter player. Maybe we r not thinking all that different.

 

[DWRedbird]

Others have said this, but I think it was more about his in-game defense. Constantly getting beaten. Can’t stay in front of his man.

The bigger concern is if the effort was there in practice and the in-game performance causes him to get pulled almost immediately on a repeat basis.....then should we worry?

If he were a junior instead of a Frosh, I'd say we should be worried. But, being a Frosh that missed half of the year it isn't all that surprising that his defense sub par. Most freshman play poor defense to start their career as they adjust to the D1 game. Usually by conference play you see them start to get their feet under them as they adjust to the game, and losing half a season makes it hard to catch up that year in any aspect. Now if he comes out next year, and is still getting beat like a drum off the dribble, then I think we should worry.

 

[tpskult]

Another well attended Sunday game for Redbird fans in St Louis. How much longer will Redbird fans continue to show up on Sunday if the team can't finish the job?

 

[Brick]

Madison just a sophomore. He will get better. He needs to add penetration to his game to be more effective. He has good size at six three and he is certainly athletic enough. The jury is out on EC. He's also athletic and great size at six five but can only go left effectively at this point. But again only played half his freshman year. I still say Copeland will have a major impact next year. Time will tell

 

[redneckredbird]

Madison just a sophomore. He will get better. He needs to add penetration to his game to be more effective. He has good size at six three and he is certainly athletic enough. The jury is out on EC. He's also athletic and great size at six five but can only go left effectively at this point. But again only played half his freshman year. I still say Copeland will have a major impact next year. Time will tell

I have not played too much attention to if EC can only go left, but it was clear to me he can get to the rim at will. U can't teach the quickness he has on the first and second step, he just needs to learn what to do in the paint when he gets there. I don't have any reason to think he won't learn that. I also think he can play defense when he is locked in, but the consistency is clearly not there yet to do it for an entire game. From my rookie scouting eye he has all the tools to be a plus player in the valley for sure, just needs to mature. Best part is he has time to do that. The last thing I see with him is his shot is not broken. Reminds me a lot of MW last year. Hopefully he can take a major stride in shooting for next year. If he can shoot 32 to 35 percent from deep, that = he is just can't be gaurded. Just what I see. I've been wrong before....

 

[ISU FAN 1]

Madison just a sophomore. He will get better. He needs to add penetration to his game to be more effective. He has good size at six three and he is certainly athletic enough. The jury is out on EC. He's also athletic and great size at six five but can only go left effectively at this point. But again only played half his freshman year. I still say Copeland will have a major impact next year. Time will tell

If we need guys to be seniors before we can expect big things, then we have already been to our last Big Dance. Loyola just destroyed us with their freshman center. Recruit better players. That's why 2019-20 looks so bleak. Absolutely nothing on the current roster to hang out hat on based on what we have seen from underclassmen. Copeland probably already planning his grad transfer exit strategy based on what'll be left.

 

[JHBird]

Nice cop out.

What makes you think he will be our savior? Or heck... what evidence do you have he would have played on this Loyola team?

Again, nice cop out. No answer to your claims.

Never said he’d be our savior, but I can reasonably guess he’ll be better than Gassman and Hein. He has good size, good hops, good shot, a scorer’s mentality, and a better b-ball IQ than what we have now. He will improve our bench.

As for Loyola, he’d already proven he could play. He was getting significant PT as a frosh before getting hurt. He might not have started, but would have played.

And let's not forget he was kinda of a late bloomer. Two years ago Utah was a top 20 team, and they offered him. I think Matt will do well next year, and really looking forward to seeing him and Copeland in the lineup next year.

 

[bb fan]

I think there is a ton of stuff here that has been predicted that would be hilarious to bookmark and review.

Regarding our team this year, I think we lacked consistency and attention to detail. All year long.

Yep, we had a great crowd. Very, very hungry for a championship. I, to worry if they will keep coming if we continue to the the bridesmaid all the time. It's great to be good, but we gotta be great soon.

 

[ISU FAN 1]

Team Rankings, which I know some don’t like, currently projecting Loyola as an 8 seed.

https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-tournament/bracketology/?utm_campaign=autoemails&utm_medium=email&utm_source=team_postgame_projections_update&utm_content=20180305&utm_term=Illinois+St.

 

[redneckredbird]

I think there is a ton of stuff here that has been predicted that would be hilarious to bookmark and review.

Regarding our team this year, I think we lacked consistency and attention to detail. All year long.

Yep, we had a great crowd. Very, very hungry for a championship. I, to worry if they will keep coming if we continue to the the bridesmaid all the time. It's great to be good, but we gotta be great soon.

I didn't say hilarious, Iwas simply using history as a teacher for evaluating underclassman guards. Emotions were running pretty strong after a bad day to have a bad day. I will absolutely agree with u about lacking consistency and attention to detail. I just am being realistic about our on court experience of the team this year. Outside of KE and PF and MY, who played 15 min a game before this year in D1 basketball. DN is the only one I can think of, and he has been hurt every year. No excuses they played poorly yesterday, but I don't think that negates the upside of some of these guys.

 

[DoubleDeuce]

Recovering from another deflating Sunday. I have no doubt the team gave all they had, but that bad shooting wreaks of dead dead legs. Sounds like everyone is ready to harness the frustration and focus on improving....can't wait for the next game!

How about that pathetic Loyola showing at the Fan Hangout on Sunday? Must've missed early mass and had to make the late show.

 

[saxman210]

FWIW- Coach made the comment that Keyshawn’s knee was struggling handling 3 games in 3 days. Hopefully that heals 100% before next season.