vs Drake (5-1) - Wednesday 1/17/24 - 7 pm - Marquee Sports Network

Redbird82

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Jul 16, 2017
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Ben McCollum. Be the team that gives him a chance to prove what he's done at the D2 Level is legit, and I suspect it is.
Agree on McCollum, was one I wanted last time. But we aren’t doing anything with an interim Prez and AD, and in fairness shouldn’t until after next year, I think one more chance to get it right is fair.

That being said, it looks right now we don’t have enough talent and aren’t coached very well.

Very sadly we are at a point where yesterday was just expected, was anybody on here really surprised? Expecting to get blown out at home to a fellow conference member.
 

SlackBooDom

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Can you tell me what coaches are on your short list to replace Pedon? I am not saying I disagree with everything that you say, but you have to have a plan before making a move like that. It's easy to just say fire the coach, especially on a message board.
Ben McCollum. Daniyal Robinson. Mike Lewis. John Groce. Kyle Green.
 

SlackBooDom

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And, there it is, folks. The fire Pedon thread can commence
I’m not advocating for a thread nor starting one. In any career or profession we’ve likely all dealt with people who got hired and it just didn’t work for some reason. Through 50 games of Ryan Pedon it not only doesn’t work, it’s gotten worse. I’m not going to victory lap it, but last year I talked about seeing no identity to build on and got ripped on here. I talked about how the freshmen wouldn’t be ready and got ripped. I’m not interested in posting that Pedon can’t get it done and getting ripped and being right in two years. Through 50 games we’re, objectively, awful. KenPom dates back to 2000. The worst year we’ve ever had before this was 237 with Jank once. As of now, we are 253. Last year we were 289. Think about that. The worst two teams measured by analytics in the last 24 years are both of Pedon’s teams. We have the worst offense in the conference. We hired an assistant coach who mysteriously never coached. The rest of the staff is underwhelming to put it kindly. My preference would be to just have someone in the AD office own up to Kyle Brennan being an abject failure, apologize to the coach it turned out that way, and get the right person here. The counter argument would be what through 50 games has Pedon shown you to believe next year will be better? I can’t think of anything.
 
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BirdGrad2011

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Pedon gets next year. I’d like him to give us some hope and something to build on now. If next year at this time we are in the same situation the calls for a change will be as loud or louder than Muller’s.
 

Brick

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I am gonna get away from firing the coach etc for a bit. But I will say this it’s not gonna happen anytime soon. Next i really like WH Kinzinger was doing after the game. Shows toughness and character. Next I don’t know what some guys are watching. Saying we don’t run ball screens. We run ball screens virtually every time down the court. The bigs and the wings do it constantly. The problem is we aren’t good enough shooters to make people pay when we clear a screen by making an outside shot. Also other than Burford no one is good or quick enough to use the screen to get to the hoop or even in the lane for a shot AND SCORE. We just don’t have enough talent. We might have pretty good freshmen but freshmen rarely win games on this level. Yea we lost at least three games we shouldn’t have but we don’t have good enough shooting either inside or out to make ANY offensive scheme look good. That’s my take so Sue me! 🤪🤪
 

TBS_20

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I am gonna get away from firing the coach etc for a bit. But I will say this it’s not gonna happen anytime soon. Next i really like WH Kinzinger was doing after the game. Shows toughness and character. Next I don’t know what some guys are watching. Saying we don’t run ball screens. We run ball screens virtually every time down the court. The bigs and the wings do it constantly. The problem is we aren’t good enough shooters to make people pay when we clear a screen by making an outside shot. Also other than Burford no one is good or quick enough to use the screen to get to the hoop or even in the lane for a shot AND SCORE. We just don’t have enough talent. We might have pretty good freshmen but freshmen rarely win games on this level. Yea we lost at least three games we shouldn’t have but we don’t have good enough shooting either inside or out to make ANY offensive scheme look good. That’s my take so Sue me! 🤪🤪
May be an unpopular opinion but a bunch of white guys from around central illinois are not going to be the quickest. It's good to bring in some local guys if theyre good. Not to bring them in just to bring them in. Pedon went too far with the local recruiting.
 

WoodlandWarrior

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May be an unpopular opinion but a bunch of white guys from around central illinois are not going to be the quickest. It's good to bring in some local guys if theyre good. Not to bring them in just to bring them in. Pedon went too far with the local recruiting.
If the local white guys are good is the key. Look at Bradley over the years with Phegley from East Peoria, Zobrist and Kennell from Metamora,, Crouch from Pekin. They contributed.
 
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BirdGrad2011

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May be an unpopular opinion but a bunch of white guys from around central illinois are not going to be the quickest. It's good to bring in some local guys if theyre good. Not to bring them in just to bring them in. Pedon went too far with the local recruiting.
Pence is legit good and he’ll figure it out. Same with Johnny. Ty Blake is a walk on. Cade Norris is good and we’ve seen his brother be a very capable player at Loyola. Jack Daugherty has good tape and played some good AAU. I don’t think those guys are the problem right now… it’s that Burford, Lewis, Kasubke, Malachi aren’t doing enough as the older guys and “leaders.”
 

Hamdonger

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I am gonna get away from firing the coach etc for a bit. But I will say this it’s not gonna happen anytime soon. Next i really like WH Kinzinger was doing after the game. Shows toughness and character. Next I don’t know what some guys are watching. Saying we don’t run ball screens. We run ball screens virtually every time down the court. The bigs and the wings do it constantly. The problem is we aren’t good enough shooters to make people pay when we clear a screen by making an outside shot. Also other than Burford no one is good or quick enough to use the screen to get to the hoop or even in the lane for a shot AND SCORE. We just don’t have enough talent. We might have pretty good freshmen but freshmen rarely win games on this level. Yea we lost at least three games we shouldn’t have but we don’t have good enough shooting either inside or out to make ANY offensive scheme look good. That’s my take so Sue me! 🤪🤪
You'll be hearing from my attorney, Mr. Brickers.
download (3).jpeg
 
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DaveBird10

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Last night was the first game in a long time that I wasn't excited to go to a Redbird Hoops game. I love ISU basketball been around it since a kid but you just knew how last night was going to go. I am rooting for Pedon, he's a great guy, very personable but I just wonder if its going to work or will this get worse. We have talent but not the guy. Everyone talking about Pedon and wanting a switch its not happening and wont happen anytime soon. With how Brennan left we aren't in a position to fire anyone and hire anyone new, we are stuck now. Its what people wanted and now we are kind of stuck. Get the President and AD figured out before anything else.
I want to see the freshmen play more, we will struggle but if you're trying to build a program kids like Kinziger shooting after practice, Pence being a perfectionist and Chase working to get in shape are the kids that will get it done. Those kids have a work ethic, they just need to play more and take the lumps. Valpo starts 3 Freshman, I wish we did that (kind of like P. Lee freshmen year) let the kids play and figure it out, that will pay off in the long run.
 
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dpdoughbird06

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Last night was the first game in a long time that I wasn't excited to go to a Redbird Hoops game. I love ISU basketball been around it since a kid but you just knew how last night was going to go. I am rooting for Pedon, he's a great guy, very personable but I just wonder if its going to work or will this get worse. We have talent but not the guy. Everyone talking about Pedon and wanting a switch its not happening and wont happen anytime soon. With how Brennan left we aren't in a position to fire anyone and hire anyone new, we are stuck now. Its what people wanted now we are kind of stuck. Get the President and AD figured out before anything else.
I want to see the freshmen play more, we will struggle but if you're trying to build a program kids like Kinziger shooting after practice, Pence being a perfectionist and Chase working to get in shape are the kids that will get it done. Those kids have a work ethic, they just need to play more and take the lumps. Valpo starts 3 Freshman, I wish we did that (kind of like P. Lee freshmen year) let the kids play and figure it out, that will pay off in the long run.
I struggled to point out players for my boys to watch on the Redbirds last night. I settled on Chase Walker but he played tentative and three steps slow.

Burford was exciting in a first half burst, but as is our custom we went away from him in favor of trying to get others hot.

I ended up telling them to watch DeVries, who might play in the NBA, and Brodie. Drake was just so much better at everything; I wanted them to see what a good basketball team looks like.
 

DaveBird10

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Drake is very well coached, and they do, do stuff with Brodie and Devries that we don't match up well with. Lewis is 6'8 but doesn't have the speed to keep up with him . I thought Davis did the best on him but Devries is still 4 inches taller then him where Devries can shoot right over when he wants to. Brodie is 6'10 and he has 3 inches and 40lbs on Foster. Drake does do a good job of attacking weaknesses and exploiting them.
I like Pedon, I think he's very personable and good with the community. We don't have an AD or President and Muller comes off the books this year after we bought him out with 2 years left. Pedon has 5 year deal worth $550,000 annually. By comparison Josh Schertz makes $365,000 annually. People wanted a change, we got it and he's getting paid. Whatever happens, happens and now we are kind of stuck for at least 2.5 more years.
 

TBS_20

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Pence is legit good and he’ll figure it out. Same with Johnny. Ty Blake is a walk on. Cade Norris is good and we’ve seen his brother be a very capable player at Loyola. Jack Daugherty has good tape and played some good AAU. I don’t think those guys are the problem right now… it’s that Burford, Lewis, Kasubke, Malachi aren’t doing enough as the older guys and “leaders.”
Doesnt appear they are the local kids are good or the olders guys are good. Nobody is good except maybe foster.
 

Birdfriend72

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I’m not advocating for a thread nor starting one. In any career or profession we’ve likely all dealt with people who got hired and it just didn’t work for some reason. Through 50 games of Ryan Pedon it not only doesn’t work, it’s gotten worse. I’m not going to victory lap it, but last year I talked about seeing no identity to build on and got ripped on here. I talked about how the freshmen wouldn’t be ready and got ripped. I’m not interested in posting that Pedon can’t get it done and getting ripped and being right in two years. Through 50 games we’re, objectively, awful. KenPom dates back to 2000. The worst year we’ve ever had before this was 237 with Jank once. As of now, we are 253. Last year we were 289. Think about that. The worst two teams measured by analytics in the last 24 years are both of Pedon’s teams. We have the worst offense in the conference. We hired an assistant coach who mysteriously never coached. The rest of the staff is underwhelming to put it kindly. My preference would be to just have someone in the AD office own up to Kyle Brennan being an abject failure, apologize to the coach it turned out that way, and get the right person here. The counter argument would be what through 50 games has Pedon shown you to believe next year will be better? I can’t think of anything.
The worst part of it all is we have almost the entire group back next year. If the numbers don't improve much next season- then you more than likely have a total rebuild in year four. Pretty soon you will be in years five and six. I hope Pedon is the man...but it's not looking good.
 

Redreggie

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This hits home.
I’m not advocating for a thread nor starting one. In any career or profession we’ve likely all dealt with people who got hired and it just didn’t work for some reason. Through 50 games of Ryan Pedon it not only doesn’t work, it’s gotten worse. I’m not going to victory lap it, but last year I talked about seeing no identity to build on and got ripped on here. I talked about how the freshmen wouldn’t be ready and got ripped. I’m not interested in posting that Pedon can’t get it done and getting ripped and being right in two years. Through 50 games we’re, objectively, awful. KenPom dates back to 2000. The worst year we’ve ever had before this was 237 with Jank once. As of now, we are 253. Last year we were 289. Think about that. The worst two teams measured by analytics in the last 24 years are both of Pedon’s teams. We have the worst offense in the conference. We hired an assistant coach who mysteriously never coached. The rest of the staff is underwhelming to put it kindly. My preference would be to just have someone in the AD office own up to Kyle Brennan being an abject failure, apologize to the coach it turned out that way, and get the right person here. The counter argument would be what through 50 games has Pedon shown you to believe next year will be better? I can’t think of anything.
 

Adunk33

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The worst part of it all is we have almost the entire group back next year. If the numbers don't improve much next season- then you more than likely have a total rebuild in year four. Pretty soon you will be in years five and six. I hope Pedon is the man...but it's not looking good.
Early in the season, I was excited about the potential of having most of the group and not having to worry about filling 8 spots in the portal. Really felt like keep the core together, fill Schmitt & Lewis' spot with freshmen, and then maybe a couple guys decide to use their last year somewhere else. But if things don't drastically improve, we've gotta hit a reset. Hang on to those who have contributed enough (maybe three or four of the listed "seniors" and the current freshmen and let others finish their final year elsewhere. That said, if we have massive roster turnover again it'll be another rebuild relying on the young sophs and freshmen along with unknowns from the portal.

Don't get me wrong, I really hope the flip switches on three guys, especially. 3pt%:
Burford last year: 33%, this year 21%
Poindexter last year: 37%, this year 25%
Kasubke last year: 35%, this year 32%

If these guys can get back to their three point averages and pair them with Johnny and Banks being able to focus on running what we call an offense, that would be a huge boost. We've got the yips and its contagious. Everyone is afraid to shoot. They just gotta go out an play.Drake is a better team. No doubt about it or way around it. It's one of the few games we all knew was an L the second the ball was tipped. But the way the defense can play, they should be in most games outside of Drake and Indy State.

Regarding Chase, I understand the slow ramp up, but I'm ready to see him go. As I believe Quinn said either earlier here or in another thread, if you pull his RS, he should be playing at least 15mpg. See what you have there.
 

Dmills

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It will be really hard to have any optimism about next season without some sort of upward trajectory going forward. We are 2-6 since the Norfolk State debacle and 0-6 since Christmas. Most of our remaining games will be winnable. We have learned to limit turnovers in favor of shooting 35% from the field. Need to shoot better and defend better.
 

MadBird

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I'm not all that happy with the way things are going, but I'm not planning on posting on a regular basis on another one of these "fire the coach" threads after each and every game. Each and every issue - just like it was with Muller (who I was glad to see go). I support Pedon, want to see him get his 2-3-4 years to get things in gear. Maybe he won't.

But regarding freshman and their "ethnic" persuasion or geographic area of origin - Valpo took our pants down the other day, thanks in large part to a couple of freshman, 6'7 Sepp from Estonia and 6'9 Schweiger from Kansas. In addition to their Brodie/DeVries combo, Drake trotted out 6'9 Illinois kid Ferguson (a junior), who presented a few problems for our boys. InSU runs out 6'10 Avila (now soph) out of Oak Forest. SIU's got Illinois bigs Ebube and D'Amico. On and on.

There's young guys and "local" guys who could help, but unfortunately we don't have them.

I wanna strongly agree with something Brick said - I see screens, I see some cutting, but Brick's point is the key, we have a problem putting the ball in the hole. We also aren't strong, up and down the lineup - Walker obviously is, Foster. I think Burford is pretty solid physically. But we get pushed around, especially in the paint, but all around. We get out worked, out hustled, pushed out of the way. Gotta turn that around.
 

jwa123

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I am gonna get away from firing the coach etc for a bit. But I will say this it’s not gonna happen anytime soon. Next i really like WH Kinzinger was doing after the game. Shows toughness and character. Next I don’t know what some guys are watching. Saying we don’t run ball screens. We run ball screens virtually every time down the court. The bigs and the wings do it constantly. The problem is we aren’t good enough shooters to make people pay when we clear a screen by making an outside shot. Also other than Burford no one is good or quick enough to use the screen to get to the hoop or even in the lane for a shot AND SCORE. We just don’t have enough talent. We might have pretty good freshmen but freshmen rarely win games on this level. Yea we lost at least three games we shouldn’t have but we don’t have good enough shooting either inside or out to make ANY offensive scheme look good. That’s my take so Sue me! 🤪🤪
My attorney will be in touch 🤪.
 
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