TEAMS IN BOWLS THAT WOULDNT BEATMOST MVC TEAMS

[BallwinBird2012]

I really should just not participate in discussing this topic, ISU to the Big 12, so will try to limit it to one negative post.

Not that negative of a post, just honest.

ISU will not get in the current Big 12 in my lifetime, and probably not in the next 25 years, at least.

Not without radically changing the mindset/personnel of its athletic dept and how they do business.

ISU does not now and will not in the forseeable future "deliver" the Chicago media market.

So true, the very idea that a state university like Illinois State markets itself as B-N's "hometown team" is appalling and speaks volumes as to the failings of this athletic dept. You can't expect Illinois State to penetrate that market with only 1-AA football.

Schools that are already FBS that would be ahead of ISU in any Big 12 expansion plans, in no particular order (assuming they'd be willing to move):

Houston
Memphis
Tulsa
SMU
Colorado State
New Mexico State
Troy
Tulane
Louisiana Tech
NIU (probably, they'd deliver Chicago at least as much as ISU and already have the stadium in place)
Wyoming

Realistically, the only ones on that list with a chance are Houston, Memphis, SMU and in a distant fourth.... Tulsa. Maybe throw Cincinnati in there too. But your point is made that 1-AA football has severely held Illinois State back. The fact that the state university of the 6th most populous state in the country has to play catch up to Colorado St, NMSU, Troy La Tech, NIU & Wyoming is embarrassing and shameful.

I'm willing to eat my crow in public if it ever becomes necessary.

I hope Illinois State is willing and able to hire people that will work to have Redbird athletics reach their potential. For the university's sake, I hope you do have to eat that crow someday.

Truth, I think you highlighted something in your post perfectly. All of the conversation on the board seems to be positives/negatives of going FBS and having to join a conference like the MAC. I get both sides of that conversation, but to ever even DREAM of going to a conferences like the Big 12 or any P5 conference in the next 25-50 years, we'd have to start in a G5 conference. No P5 conference is going to take someone straight from the FCS and anyone who thinks they are is delusional. So, for me, the question really boils down to whether or not ISU wants to go to a lower level FBS conference with the hopes of building the program up and MAYBE SOMEDAY getting a call from a P5 conference, or do we strive to become an FCS powerhouse.

 

[bb fan]

How many schools have succeeded going to a P5 starting in a non BCS conference?

I don't even know what the heck a G5 is. I would bet 99% of sports have have no idea.

 

[fourthandshort]

How many schools have succeeded going to a P5 starting in a non BCS conference?

I don't even know what the heck a G5 is. I would bet 99% of sports have have no idea.

I think anyone that knows term Power 5 and P5, would quickly deduce G5 is all other FBS.

- P5 is now 6 conferences with the addition of AAC in 2017 .. just read this

- G5 is now 4 conferences with loss of AAC. So MAC, CUSA, Sun Belt, Mountain West.

- Only thing left is handful of independents, of which only Notre Dame is P5, rest are G5.

P5 + G5 + FBS Independents = all of FBS

 

[fourthandshort]

How many schools have succeeded going to a P5 starting in a non BCS conference?

I don't even know what the heck a G5 is. I would bet 99% of sports have have no idea.

I think anyone that knows term Power 5 and P5, would quickly deduce G5 is all other FBS.

- P5 is now 6 conferences with the addition of AAC in 2017 .. just read this

- G5 is now 4 conferences with loss of AAC. So MAC, CUSA, Sun Belt, Mountain West.

- Only thing left is handful of independents, of which only Notre Dame is P5, rest are G5.

P5 + G5 + FBS Independents = all of FBS

Also note following:

- Big 10 is now 14 teams ..growing
- Pac 10 is now PAC 12 ,.. growing
- ACC is now 15 teams .. growing
- SEC is 14 teams ..growing
- Big 12 is now 10 teams ... contracting

people who know more than me probably understand why ... so why is Big 12 contracting when everyone else is growing ?

 

[bb fan]

Fourth, the AAC is gonna be a P5 according to who? I bent not the P5's. You will notice that when they pick those top 4 playoff teams.

And, I am totally NOT surprised you know what the G5 is

Was hoping at least you could have answered my question....

 

[fourthandshort]

Fourth, the AAC is gonna be a P5 according to who? I bent not the P5's. You will notice that when they pick those top 4 playoff teams.

And, I am totally NOT surprised you know what the G5 is

Was hoping at least you could have answered my question....

ugh .. misread something too quickly thinking they were transitioning into P5 - but they are a wannabe P5 .. my bad !!

 

[BallwinBird2012]

... so why is Big 12 contracting when everyone else is growing ?

Texas.

 

[Reggie Redbird]

How many schools have succeeded going to a P5 starting in a non BCS conference?

I don't even know what the heck a G5 is. I would bet 99% of sports have have no idea.

I think anyone that knows term Power 5 and P5, would quickly deduce G5 is all other FBS.

- P5 is now 6 conferences with the addition of AAC in 2017 .. just read this

- G5 is now 4 conferences with loss of AAC. So MAC, CUSA, Sun Belt, Mountain West.

- Only thing left is handful of independents, of which only Notre Dame is P5, rest are G5.

P5 + G5 + FBS Independents = all of FBS

Also note following:

- Big 10 is now 14 teams ..growing
- Pac 10 is now PAC 12 ,.. growing
- ACC is now 15 teams .. growing
- SEC is 14 teams ..growing
- Big 12 is now 10 teams ... contracting

people who know more than me probably understand why ... so why is Big 12 contracting when everyone else is growing ?

They won't take Houston and ??? To make 12 teams. Perhaps they consider adding Houston, coupled with Boise in FB and Wichita in everything else. Perhaps they add Houston and Cinci. I guess one last option is Houston and SMU.

 

[crazzymark]

Look what UCF , FIU, APP State, Troy and others have done since going FBS, growing programs and a direction, UCF went for CUSA(most likely where ISU would land to the AAC. and if a power 5 takes UCF and a couple more teams from the AAC, ISU could go there in just 3 yrs or less. There are stadiums now less that ISU that are FBS, because they have "plans" for expansion of their stadiums or new ones "down the road. ISU lack direction , ISU could easily be "THE" Sports University in the State, but now is the time while the uoi is struggling and all other schools making cuts or closing. UCF has 60,000 students enrolled on campus or online....ISU could do the same ...!!!

 

[bb fan]

First of all, there are no plans for any P5 to add any other teams, UCF or anybody.

But seriously Crazy, do you think any P5 is interested in a team from a 100plus hyphenated, no less TV market?

 

[SoCalRedbird]

I think something has to give in terms of conference realignment. We have seen more shifts in conference affiliations in the past decade than ever before. Schools like ISU need to get creative and innovate their way into a better, more equitable, and financially lucrative deal.

Idea: Ditch the idea that conference affiliation should be determined by proximity, travel costs, rivalries, etc. Rename the MVC "The Valley" and invite Grand Canyon, New Mexico State, Portland, and all other burgeoning D1 programs. What we're talking about here is a collosal high major mega-conference that would combine the MVC, A10, and MWC. Several conferences are already trending towards that arrangement (e.g. Maryland and Rutgers in the B1G). Split the conference into divisions based upon proximity. Increased level of competition, increased level of fan support, huge RPI and scheduling boost. Lobby the NCAA for multiple bids based upon divisional conference championships.

How would that arrangement change the stature of athletics? Is it possible? Would it be worth it?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[Reggie Redbird]

Look what UCF , FIU, APP State, Troy and others have done since going FBS, growing programs and a direction, UCF went for CUSA(most likely where ISU would land to the AAC. and if a power 5 takes UCF and a couple more teams from the AAC, ISU could go there in just 3 yrs or less. There are stadiums now less that ISU that are FBS, because they have "plans" for expansion of their stadiums or new ones "down the road. ISU lack direction , ISU could easily be "THE" Sports University in the State, but now is the time while the uoi is struggling and all other schools making cuts or closing. UCF has 60,000 students enrolled on campus or online....ISU could do the same ...!!!

Sure, we could do the same. However, it would take many, many years to get there and billions of dollars in state money and/or donations to implement and build out everything needed to get there. It would also take a lot of land around campus to expand to triple our enrollment. If you can cut the first $100 million check, we could get on our way to growing.

Also, could you get started on getting many huge companies to relocate here to Bloomington-Normal? Orlando is a metro area with 2.4 million people. That really helps their enrollment. One reason it was tougher for us to compete with WSU in attendance was their metro area was much, much bigger than ours. They have more people locally to draw from. Orlando is a metro area four times the size of Wichita and many, many times our metro size.

 

[TheTruth]

But seriously Crazy, do you think any P5 is interested in a team from a 100plus hyphenated, no less TV market?

Do you mean like Johnstown-Altoona-State College.... the # 102 TV market?

 

[bb fan]

Really, you want to compare the Penn State example to ISU? Penn State has been a national power for over 100 years and has had a national following for that long.

Truth, you made a good point earlier. ISU should never look at an FBS unless it was a path to a P5. And when ISU almost sprang for the MAC in the late 90's, that was the goal. But you, and no one has yet to answer my question. Which usually happens in this convos. Name a non FBS that has gone to an FBS, and a P5?

You think all the ISU admins over the years have all been stupid idiots. Lazy no goods. But please list these programs who have done what you say our awful admins have not.

The hard fact is, for 30 years now, college athletics has been all about TV $$$. In particular, cable TV households over the last decade. How the heck do you think a program like Rutgers gets in to the B10?

When the P5 conferences matured and Penn State had already won many national championships and the darlings of the Pittsburgh and Philadelphia markets, ISU was still a very small, mostly female teachers college, that has always been in a very unattractive, puny hypenated TV market. Heck, even NIU is in a top 5 TV market, they have done everything you say we should have done, and they are mired in the MAC Abyss and their university brand is a disaster.

But please, keep coming back with examples like Penn State....

 

[redbirddad10]

There are a number of factors that are going to impact College Football and where it will leave ISU when the dust settles I don't know?
1. Head Trauma - Jr High and High School participation rates aren't falling they are plummeting!!!
2. Insurance costs - are going to sky rocket. College Sports can not get parents to sign their rights to sue away. In fact, I see that there is already Attorneys soliciting College Athletes to participation in what look like class action lawsuits around injuries sustained while playing.
3. Equipment - is going to Improve but costs will increase.
2. Cost of attendance - BCS and Select FCS schools are offering "cost of attendance"

 

[ekeyfanclub]

Really, you want to compare the Penn State example to ISU? Penn State has been a national power for over 100 years and has had a national following for that long.

Truth, you made a good point earlier. ISU should never look at an FBS unless it was a path to a P5. And when ISU almost sprang for the MAC in the late 90's, that was the goal. But you, and no one has yet to answer my question. Which usually happens in this convos. Name a non FBS that has gone to an FBS, and a P5?

You think all the ISU admins over the years have all been stupid idiots. Lazy no goods. But please list these programs who have done what you say our awful admins have not.

The hard fact is, for 30 years now, college athletics has been all about TV $$$. In particular, cable TV households over the last decade. How the heck do you think a program like Rutgers gets in to the B10?

When the P5 conferences matured and Penn State had already won many national championships and the darlings of the Pittsburgh and Philadelphia markets, ISU was still a very small, mostly female teachers college, that has always been in a very unattractive, puny hypenated TV market. Heck, even NIU is in a top 5 TV market, they have done everything you say we should have done, and they are mired in the MAC Abyss and their university brand is a disaster.

But please, keep coming back with examples like Penn State....

:text-+1:

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

Does not have to be a path to P5 just national relevancy for ISU athletics which would be more in line with ISU academics. If ISU could get to the AAC at this point that would be a home run given where ISU resides.

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

Does not have to be a path to P5 just national relevancy for ISU athletics which would be more in line with ISU academics. If ISU could get to the AAC at this point that would be a home run given where ISU resides.

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

Really, you want to compare the Penn State example to ISU?

Alternatively...that is how I feel when some routinely compare ISU to NIU in order to feel good.

 

[bb fan]

I make no comparasions to NIU to "feel good". I like NIU. I have many friends and family that are alums, students and work there. I like the place. The bring up Norther is going to happen. They have done what some here said we should have done going the BCS route.