Targeting

[Virginia Redbird]

Is there anybody that can explain the targeting call last night? The helmets hit but there did not appear to me to be any intent to target at all. Just a football play. I know they are intending to protect the players and I am fine with that. The way the penalty is being enforced though is just ridiculous. Anytime helmets hit the refs are tossing the laundry and it almost never gets overturned. Look at these clips...just stupid. Bad rule, horrid officiating and replay just sucks. I have never been a fan of replay and never will be. I hate this rule...just hate it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hCJmDMMF_Q

 

[fourthandshort]

what make it even more pathetic was that they reviewed film and still called it. Brannon Barry NEVER put his head down .. the QB put is head down, Barry just hit him straight up and was trying to stop him from getting a first down. So instead of 4th and 5 from the 36, they are 1st and 10 from our 21 .. on their only drive of game.

Absolutely pathetic call and after a review !!!

Spack needs to submit that tape to league to have it overturned - otherwise Barry will have to sit out first half of NAU game.

Pathetic !!!

 

[TIMMY]

My first high school football helmet was a suspension helmet with a leather band that went around the crown to the back of the helmet. That was 1972. My head aches just thinking about it. Then came air. The first air helmets were heavy as hell. Air helmets have been around for a long time now. In 2014 the SG came out and I bought 10 of them for my kids who had a past concussion. I love that helmet, but they're so different they haven't really caught on with mainstream guys. This year the NFL is trying out the zero 1, kind of a helmet in a helmet. 1500 bucks! Cost prohibitive for high schools and some colleges. It might make sense but unless they find a way to put an air conditioner in there it's got to be hotter than shit to wear.

In the 45 years since my freshman year of high school the technology that goes into a helmet has change constantly. Always something new. But one thing has not changed. Concussions. What has changed is science. CTE is real. It's not going away and it's either going to drastically change the game, or it's going to end it. END IT. Numbers are way down and mommies (who have always hated the game) have real ammunition. School districts always follow the will of the mommies.

They have to take the head out of football. Hawk tackling. Proper use of technique for linemen. Baseline testing. And yes, over the top rules that we're all going to hate when it's called on "us". Officials are going to err on the side of caution. This has been mandated for good reason. And yes the rules will be revisited every year. So you might as well get over it because it's only going to get more restrictive. As it should. Unless you want to watch Tiddly Winks on a Saturday afternoon.

 

[Seeing Red]

Completely bogus call. 4th nailed it with the QB dropping his head, no crown of.the helmet was used, no launching occurred and the QB was a ball carrier at that point. Absolutely stinks. This is the same crew, remember, who couldn't figure out that Connelly registered a sack and was getting ready to screw that up till Spack got their attention.

 

[Hamdonger]

My first high school football helmet was a suspension helmet with a leather band that went around the crown to the back of the helmet. That was 1972. My head aches just thinking about it. Then came air. The first air helmets were heavy as hell. Air helmets have been around for a long time now. In 2014 the SG came out and I bought 10 of them for my kids who had a past concussion. I love that helmet, but they're so different they haven't really caught on with mainstream guys. This year the NFL is trying out the zero 1, kind of a helmet in a helmet. 1500 bucks! Cost prohibitive for high schools and some colleges. It might make sense but unless they find a way to put an air conditioner in there it's got to be hotter than shit to wear.

In the 45 years since my freshman year of high school the technology that goes into a helmet has change constantly. Always something new. But one thing has not changed. Concussions. What has changed is science. CTE is real. It's not going away and it's either going to drastically change the game, or it's going to end it. END IT. Numbers are way down and mommies (who have always hated the game) have real ammunition. School districts always follow the will of the mommies.

They have to take the head out of football. Hawk tackling. Proper use of technique for linemen. Baseline testing. And yes, over the top rules that we're all going to hate when it's called on "us". Officials are going to err on the side of caution. This has been mandated for good reason. And yes the rules will be revisited every year. So you might as well get over it because it's only going to get more restrictive. As it should. Unless you want to watch Tiddly Winks on a Saturday afternoon.

Heck of a post, Timmy. I do get frustrated with the targeting call, because it's a violent full-speed game to begin with. Great post that opens my eyes a bit more.

Isn't there a TiddlyWinks bowl game somewhere this year?

 

[dpdoughbird06]

My first high school football helmet was a suspension helmet with a leather band that went around the crown to the back of the helmet. That was 1972. My head aches just thinking about it. Then came air. The first air helmets were heavy as hell. Air helmets have been around for a long time now. In 2014 the SG came out and I bought 10 of them for my kids who had a past concussion. I love that helmet, but they're so different they haven't really caught on with mainstream guys. This year the NFL is trying out the zero 1, kind of a helmet in a helmet. 1500 bucks! Cost prohibitive for high schools and some colleges. It might make sense but unless they find a way to put an air conditioner in there it's got to be hotter than shit to wear.

In the 45 years since my freshman year of high school the technology that goes into a helmet has change constantly. Always something new. But one thing has not changed. Concussions. What has changed is science. CTE is real. It's not going away and it's either going to drastically change the game, or it's going to end it. END IT. Numbers are way down and mommies (who have always hated the game) have real ammunition. School districts always follow the will of the mommies.

They have to take the head out of football. Hawk tackling. Proper use of technique for linemen. Baseline testing. And yes, over the top rules that we're all going to hate when it's called on "us". Officials are going to err on the side of caution. This has been mandated for good reason. And yes the rules will be revisited every year. So you might as well get over it because it's only going to get more restrictive. As it should. Unless you want to watch Tiddly Winks on a Saturday afternoon.

Heck of a post, Timmy. I do get frustrated with the targeting call, because it's a violent full-speed game to begin with. Great post that opens my eyes a bit more.

Isn't there a TiddlyWinks bowl game somewhere this year?

If I read Timmy correctly, it takes two to tango and this targeting rule will eventually ensnare any ball carrier who lowers the helmet to initiate head-to-head contact.

If we all get annoyed enough about these targeting calls, eventually the techniques - both running and tackling - will change for the safer. But in order for that to happen the rule has to stop assuming that the ball carrier is automatically blameless.

We also need officiating crews that have a clue, which can't be said about last night's bunch. Or, lacking that, at least a time cap on how long they are allowed to review a play. Second half had zero flow mostly because of the replays and other officials timeouts.

 

[MadBird]

I guess I want to differentiate between the "rule" and the "call". There was head to head contact. The refs/booth jockies are gonna call targeting when there's head to head contact, that's just the way it is now. There was no "call" by the refs "in real time". No flag. Upon further review, targeting was called. So to all of us in attendance, we saw it (at least those in red, and apparently in stripes too) as, let's call it, "incidental contact". It was after reviewing it, slowing it down to frame by frame, that the call came.

I don't know what's "right" in this. Seems like "flagrant" vs. unintentional needs to be factored into this before shagging a guy for a half-game or more.

 

[fourthandshort]

I look at it this way .. the only person "targeting" in any way was the QB - not that he was doing anything wrong. The only reason there was incidental contact was because of what the QB did.. Barry didn't "target" with his helmet in anyway. The runner put his helmet down to get more yards. Barry effective stood straight up almost .. Barry never lowered his head and certainly never "targeted" any head to head contact.

Think about this .. under yesterday's interpretation of rule, a bigger stronger RB could have been running faster, put his head down and brutally targeted Barry's helmet, knocked him silly out of the game, and gotten a penalty called on Barry at same time. That is what ref's would effectively be allowing per yesterday's call.

Spack needs to send this tape in and get call reversed.

 

[Hamdonger]

Right on, DP.

I'm curious...has anyone here actually seen a targeting call on an offensive player?

 

[MadBird]

Right on, DP.

I'm curious...has anyone here actually seen a targeting call on an offensive player?

Found this on the internets, but I agree with you, pretty rare!

https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/co...ees-flag-wipes-texas-am-td-gets-aggie-ejected

 

[JKL2]

The ref was afraid Barry was going to rip the QB's face mask off with his ear hole. When you drop down to hit someone with your shoulder, your head is going to drop down with it.

 

[Virginia Redbird]

I should have been more detailed in my comment but I was pretty frustrated with the call on Barry. It is not the rule I despise so much as the application of the rule by the referees, the lack of consistency and the almost complete focus on the defensive player. There have been several cases of the offensive player lowering his pads and helmet as the defender comes in to make the tackle and the helmets hit. Nothing the defender could have done and no intent at all. It was really the offensive player using his helmet as a weapon. It looks like there have been isolated occasions where the offensive player is called but those are very rare.
I have no issue with player safety and I have seen real targeting where the players launches with the crown of the helmet and the other player is totally defenseless...yep, toss the flag and the player. However, at the risk of subjecting myself and others to a future of "Tiddly Winks" tournaments on Saturday afternoons and evenings, I still don't like the application of the rule and do not intend to refrain from saying so.

Nobody ever said the CTE or concussions were not a real issue. Of course they are and efforts should be made to protect the players. I do find it kind of interesting that the protective Mom's out there seem to so concerned about the game of football but have no concern with their boys and girls playing a sport like soccer. Both my boys played soccer through the College level and as the skill level goes up and the players get bigger and stronger injuries like concussions are a real concern. Soccer players have virtually no protective gear. Even though head protection is available it is rarely seen on the fields at any level. Nobody, including most soccer Mom's, seem concerned in the least about it though. Playing any sport involves some inherent risk of injuries no matter how safe anyone tries to make the game.

I wore the Riddell suspension helmet for most of my High School playing days as well. May as well have been wearing a bucket on your head with almost zero padding and just the webbing inside. Ironic that the improvements in helmet and equipment design are in some ways responsible for the situation we find ourselves in today. I don't think you saw too many of the players in leather helmet days launching themselves head first to bury their head into their opponent (I am not that old so I just have to assume that was the case in those days!). I heard a former NFL player (can't recall who) on the radio a year or so ago that said the powers that be could end this problem tomorrow if they wanted to. All they had to do was outlaw face masks. Today's player would not be likely to lead with the helmet with their face exposed. Not going to happen of course but he had a point. Dental bill would be going up but the targeting issue would probably go down!

I feel bad for Barry and the team will miss him in the first half next week but it is what it is. I hope the Pluto feed is better than the ESPN3 feed. I assume everyone had the broadcast cut off with 30 seconds left in the game like we did. Also the feed was dropped several times but it seemed they picked up where they left off so the viewer did not miss too much. Sitting here in Virginia I am not complaining though. If not for the ESPN3 broadcast I would not be able to watch at all. Good luck Redbirds against NAU!

 

[Chi-bird]

We are not turtles, we cannot tuck our heads inside our shell's at the point of contact. Add to that, these big, bulky helmets and facemasks and ever-shrinking shoulder pad coverage and you have a situation where helmets are going to hit/touch. I mean, they stick out a great deal. Have you ever seen players trying to give each other a hug while both wearing helmets? They're going to hit.

The issue I have is that the rule essentially penalizes the defense for naturally-occurring contact in a game. This hit should not have been penalyzed, and sure as hell should not have resulted in a disqualification.

This is one of the most difficult challenges that football faces. They don't want to be on the hook of lawsuits for not protecting players, but the very nature of the sport is going to result in these hits.

 

[jbird]

Completely bogus call. 4th nailed it with the QB dropping his head, no crown of.the helmet was used, no launching occurred and the QB was a ball carrier at that point. Absolutely stinks. This is the same crew, remember, who couldn't figure out that Connelly registered a sack and was getting ready to screw that up till Spack got their attention.

That tackle occurred in open space, directly in front of my Section, so even in real time (without the need for review), I was convinced that there was no targeting........Barry certainly did not "launch," the QB was not in a defenseless posture, and the tackle was just a physical "squared up" one-on-one tackle. I was shocked when the ref announced that the play was under review for targeting, but once I heard that announcement, it was predictable that they WOULD find targeting.

 

[Hamdonger]

We are not turtles

This is one of the most difficult challenges that football faces. They don't want to be on the hook of lawsuits for not protecting players, but the very nature of the sport is going to result in these hits.

dingDingDING. This is the frustration. What really frustrates me is the replay vs game speed. Frame by frame doesn't give you a reality based result...necessarily.

The Trevathan suspension. Personally, I don't believe he should be suspended for two games or suspended at all. He made a great defensive football play in my opinion. Was it dirty? I don't think so. Now, was it illegal in today's rules? Yeah. But...in today's game, he gone two games, two game paychecks. Whew. Man, that's quite a justification from NFL admins for an already violent game.

You know, it's funny, but Walter Payton - in today's rules - would have been suspended for all 16 games. Definitely a different game.

But back to Timmy. Getting rocked is real and CTE is real. I think the only "safe" solution is to go flag football. Kidding...but not really.

 

[fourthandshort]

if I'm a RB about to be tackled ... from now on, I'm aiming for the nearest defender's helmet .. if I'm lucky, I not only get 3 extra yards, but I get to concuss the tackler if i do it right, and then if ref's are on their game ,.. they'll add 15 more yards for the "targeting" penalty on the guy I just concussed ..... but wait, there's more .... the tackler also gets kicked out of current game and part of the next game.

So ISU Running Backs ... you have your mission .. starting using your helmet to hit tacklers helmet then watch the utter stupidity unfold .. we'll call it, the "Stupid Barry Targeting" technique used to finish every run play. No holds barred Running Backs .. just use your helmets and win lots of prizes !!!

p.s. I'm not suggesting their QB did anything wrong .. in fact, it was not even a hard hit by any standards .. just Barry holding his ground and QB trying to get couple more yards ... you know, a football play.

 

[jbird]

After seeing that play from the Notre Dame game in Virginia Redbird's opening post, with the benefit of replay/review, why wasn't the ballcarrier called for targeting when he lowered his head and used the crown of his helmet when absorbing contact from the tackler?

 

[Virginia Redbird]

After seeing that play from the Notre Dame game in Virginia Redbird's opening post, with the benefit of replay/review, why wasn't the ballcarrier called for targeting when he lowered his head and used the crown of his helmet when absorbing contact from the tackler?

I am also a Notre Dame fan and I was watching that game live when the play happened. I was dumbfounded when the refs tossed the Irish player out of the game. It is obvious to anyone watching that play that it was the offensive player that lowered his head before contact but they still tossed the defender. One of the other posts mentioned Walter Payton and I recall a documentary back in the 80s where Walter said something to the effect that he was not taking the punishment...he had the shoulder pads and helmet and he attacked the defensive player. He had a pretty mean straight arm too. No those days are long gone and like the elimination of the clothesline it is probably for the best. Still the rules should be fair, consistent and not one sided. It is still football and the boys are going to bang into each other from time to time.

 

[redbirddad10]

As a high school official, I can tell you that if there is as much emphasis on the College level as there is on the High School level get ready for more of this not less. The rule applies to the runner in High School and I dread making that call but it will be made sooner or later, we discuss it before every game. Most likely it will be called early in a game to hopefully keep it from happening later at a more critical time. I do believe lowering the head at contact is a bad habit that will take awhile for current players to break. But Younger players are getting called for this and will adjust. As others have stated, the game must change or else the game won't survive. Participation is down significantly already and a serious injury at this time will have a huge impact. There will be a major lawsuit and then the liability insurance will kill the game as much as fear of injuries. Every official is on notice that these calls will always be defended and every official is expected to err on the side of caution and make more not less of these calls. Officials are watching and instead of saying "Watch 9, that kid can hit!"; we are now saying "Watch 9, he may be crossing the line!"

 

[SgtHulka]

We are not turtles, we cannot tuck our heads inside our shell's at the point of contact.

Speak for yourself