Talent Evaluation and Recruiting

[isuquinndog]

I would like Pops to chime in, but no pressure to do so.

Pops has decided to remove his account.

 

[Hamdonger]

Yes, it would add a lot of perspective if the 5 biggest know-it-alls from each fan base were forced to play on the court, and the players/coaches/families got to scrutinize their play and coaching from message boards and twitter:

I am laughing out loud. Good back to life reality check. Ok, who are my teammates?!!

 

[Buffett1]

Pops has decided to remove his account.

Thanks Quinn

 

[DougSutton]

I really appreciated Pops' presence on this board and all of the perspectives he shared. If I ever met him, I'd want to buy him a drink and can tell he's the type of guy I'd love to spend time with. He's a better man than I could have been on this board. I can't imagine having a son playing for a team and choosing to metaphorically stand right there in the fire and engage with a broad spectrum of fans, many of whom are respectful and others that aren't with their criticism. I completely understand choosing to step away from the board AND, I'll miss him.

Regarding the topic of this post, I have nothing to add. It's more of a personal choice to not engage in this type of dialogue because I have known for years since my time at ISU in the 90s and many players, friends and family members of players that I have known very well through the early 2000's how difficult it can be to read what goes on a message board like this. As much as they know to not look, they often do. Just my perspective but there's nothing positive that comes from this type of dialogue. At the same time, I understand the desire from a fans perspective to engage so don't judge the desire. I just see the duality.

 

[dpdoughbird06]

Yes, it would add a lot of perspective if the 5 biggest know-it-alls from each fan base were forced to play on the court, and the players/coaches/families got to scrutinize their play and coaching from message boards and twitter:

Years ago a bunch of us who post here played a pick-up game at Redbird Arena. It was not pretty.

If you limited the game the five most active posters, I can only imagine how ugly it’d get…

 

[DougSutton]

Yes, it would add a lot of perspective if the 5 biggest know-it-alls from each fan base were forced to play on the court, and the players/coaches/families got to scrutinize their play and coaching from message boards and twitter:

Absolutely love this and completely agree. Just my personal perspective but regarding student athletes, if I'm not (or wasn't) better than they were when I was their age, I don't feel the right to sit behind my computer and talk trash about them. And from my experience, those that did play at an elite level have the humility to never talk trash about those with less talent than them. It can become awfully petty. At least if you're going to talk trash, have the courage to disclose your name and identity so. I understand expressing frustration, providing perspectives, discussing match ups and rotations in a certain way but one can do this in a respectful tone.

 

[SlackBooDom]

I really appreciated Pops' presence on this board and all of the perspectives he shared. If I ever met him, I'd want to buy him a drink and can tell he's the type of guy I'd love to spend time with. He's a better man than I could have been on this board. I can't imagine having a son playing for a team and choosing to metaphorically stand right there in the fire and engage with a broad spectrum of fans, many of whom are respectful and others that aren't with their criticism. I completely understand choosing to step away from the board AND, I'll miss him.

Regarding the topic of this post, I have nothing to add. It's more of a personal choice to not engage in this type of dialogue because I have known for years since my time at ISU in the 90s and many players, friends and family members of players that I have known very well through the early 2000's how difficult it can be to read what goes on a message board like this. As much as they know to not look, they often do. Just my perspective but there's nothing positive that comes from this type of dialogue. At the same time, I understand the desire from a fans perspective to engage so don't judge the desire. I just see the duality.

“I have nothing to add” is a weird way to start a paragraph where you are adding plenty. If Pops didn’t want to read about people’s thoughts about Malachi he wouldn’t join a message board talking about him. Stupid games, stupid prizes.

 

[TIMMY]

I think Pops is wise enough to know some posters know their shit and some posters don't know if the ball is inflated or stuffed. I'll miss the guy.

 

[Reggie Redbird]

I still think talent is a bigger component than some think. Maybe it’s just results oriented, but I look at it, how many guys do we have that would start on top half Valley team? Foster for sure, maybe Burford in the right situation? Who else? I think the 3 freshman all have promise, but haven’t done a lot this year. It’s gets said you don’t win with Freshman, but several teams always have freshman who are big contributors. Could coaching/scheming make the players better? Sure, but we have a new coach who is still figuring it out and a young staff so that part isn’t great either. Just have to hope something clicks for players and coaches this year. Next year need an up grade of both players and staff, and yes, SO much easier said than done.

Could you explain a little more on the “young staff” comment?

Judson: started in 1989 after 9-10 years as a HS coach
Pedon: started in 2000.
Slay: started in 2012
Dakich: has been working with a team since like 2017-2018. He is relatively new as an “assistant coach.”

I’m not sure I could use an inexperienced staff as a reason unless it is Pedon in the role as a HC. This is going to be a key off-season for our recruiting. Whoever has that responsibility has a lot of work to do. We’ve had situations in the past where am assistant misses a game to recruit. If that happens, I’m fine with that because who we bring in next year is essential for success.

 

[DougSutton]

“I have nothing to add” is a weird way to start a paragraph where you are adding plenty. If Pops didn’t want to read about people’s thoughts about Malachi he wouldn’t join a message board talking about him. Stupid games, stupid prizes.

Sorry if you missed the clarity of what I stated. I have nothing to add to this discussion regarding the topic of Talent Evaluation and Recruiting. Just like most of the threads on this board, discussions about other topics get woven into a thread, often times far away from the title of the actual thread. Regarding stupid games, that's a great description of talking trash about our players. I choose not to play.

I have much more respect for Pops than many on this board. He didn't hide behind his screen name and made it clear who is and provided value while he was here. While he provided constructive perspectives about the team, including his son, he did so in a respectful manner. I'd much rather read perspectives from him and many others on this board than others that act petty.

 

[Seven]

Sorry if you missed the clarity of what I stated. I have nothing to add to this discussion regarding the topic of Talent Evaluation and Recruiting. Just like most of the threads on this board, discussions about other topics get woven into a thread, often times far away from the title of the actual thread. Regarding stupid games, that's a great description of talking trash about our players. I choose not to play.

I have much more respect for Pops than many on this board. He didn't hide behind his screen name and made it clear who is and provided value while he was here. While he provided constructive perspectives about the team, including his son, he did so in a respectful manner. I'd much rather read perspectives from him and many others on this board than others that act petty.

100% correct, Doug.

Fans have no idea how tough it is to read people trash-talking your loved one. I give Pops immense credit for stepping into the line of fire and always presenting his views with the utmost civility and respect. I give that same credit to any family of players.

As you mentioned in your previous post, it's interesting how those who made it to an elite level in their sport are often so much more civil and respectful when offering their critiques.

Every coach and player has given their blood, sweat, and tears for the Redbirds. What happens on the court means and hurts a lot more to them than it does us -- this is their life.

That isn't to say they should be immune from criticism -- but it's productive if criticism is always made respectfully with that perspective in mind.

 

[Redbird222]

While sitting there last night I am only further confused at our staff's evaluation of the team it thought it had. Were we unable to recruit over any of these guys? Did we think that Kendal Lewis's 5th year was the year he would figure it out? Why are Schmidtt and Sissoko on this roster? That is two spots that we couldn't recruit over and improve the roster? Do we only look in the portal for guys from smaller programs? In the game thread someone mentioned some being basketball losers. Hard truth is many on the roster come from previous schools with a losing record. To me I'm in the portal looking for guys from established programs that were recruited over but will work their ass off to be here and play more minutes. With the exception of Poindexter all the rest come from unsuccessful programs where they were average at best. I honestly do feel bad for Poindexter. He looks mentally broken at this point. All in all, Pedon needs to improve his staff mightily when it comes to recruiting and connections. We need a jolt in talent evaluation and acquisition!

Pedon recruited transfers

Winning programs
Poindexter Virginia (21-14)
Davis Wisconsin (20-15)
Lieb Illinois (20-13)
Banks SIU (23 - 10)


Losing programs
Burford Elon (10-22) (Dak coached)
Luke Kasubke Kansas St (14-17)
Foster (7 -26) Monmouth (two previous seasons Foster was on team they had winning seasons

Personnally i think he leans towards recruiting transfers from P5 programs or winning programs. You could move K State and Monmouth had Winning season 2/3 Foster years.

One could argue that the Foster, Banks, and Burford, who all played significant minutes on non P5 teams, have paid more dividends than players that were on P5 programs with less playing time. "Moving down" in competition hasn't translated to huge dividends from those players yet.

Personally I would have kept Lewis and in the right role he makes an impact. We should not run isolation plays for him or expect great passing. Ignoring the past two games, I will take his energy, rebounding, and defense. He can't guard folks like Brodie but he can guard other versatile players. I know we would all prefer him to play at consistent level.

I am not sure why Schmitt and Sissoko were retained if there was not any intention to play them. They played sparingly last year and nothing has changed.

 

[Redbird222]

Pops has decided to remove his account.

I appreciated Pops and his candor. It was refreshing

 

[Brick]

Sorry I will have to skip the five on five. Two bionic knees and can barely get my heels off the ground.

 

[Redbird82]

Could you explain a little more on the “young staff” comment?

Judson: started in 1989 after 9-10 years as a HS coach
Pedon: started in 2000.
Slay: started in 2012
Dakich: has been working with a team since like 2017-2018. He is relatively new as an “assistant coach.”

I’m not sure I could use an inexperienced staff as a reason unless it is Pedon in the role as a HC. This is going to be a key off-season for our recruiting. Whoever has that responsibility has a lot of work to do. We’ve had situations in the past where am assistant misses a game to recruit. If that happens, I’m fine with that because who we bring in next year is essential for success.

I knew Judson had a lot of experience, went back and looked at Slay, didn’t realize he had as much experience as he does. So that comment was probably a bit off base, but on the other hand less excuse not to be successful. I suppose I’m just frustrated at the state of team/program

 

[cubird]

Think Pops has fairly thick skin concerning valid criticisms of his son’s play. However, I am guessing he doesn’t want the temptation of posting rebuttals to moronic criticisms of his son or himself publicly commenting on how the coaching staff is running the offense.

 

[WoodlandWarrior]

I graduated from ISU in 1974 and started my career in Peoria. Shortly thereafter ISU started getting national recognition for tough teams coached by Smithson. After Smithson came Donewald and we old timers well appreciate the glory years 83-84-85 as well as some NIT trips. Then Bender coached the NCAA team that gave Michigan a real battle before he bolted. Stallings gave us two good NCAA teams. Jank had some really good teams and good players that made the NIT. Muller had the one great year with the 2nd round NIT loss the UCF. But then what? For those of us who are retired and go back nearly 50 years of ISU basketball we have great memories and hold pride in those teams. The issue now, among many emotions, is a loss of hope. Will we ever be competitive and relevant again ?

And what makes it all the worse is Bradley’s upward trajectory in recent years while we go in the opposite direction. Hell yes fans are dis-illusioned. Does anyone think our past competitive teams would have lost at home to Norfolk State or Valparaiso? Get the players who can form a cohesive unit and decide just what our offensive and defensive identity will be. Th absence of any identity for a once proud program is a huge disappointment.

 

[Redbirdfan06]

Think Pops has fairly thick skin concerning valid criticisms of his son’s play. However, I am guessing he doesn’t want the temptation of posting rebuttals to moronic criticisms of his son or himself publicly commenting on how the coaching staff is running the offense.

When has there been these moronic criticisms of his son? I always respected Pops and loved the insight he brought as a parent of a redbird player.

But Pedon has played Malachi at the 1,2, and 3 during his time at ISU. He has tried to do everything he can to get the kid going. He’s just not making shots, as is the rest of team. But I know Pops said that Pedon isn’t utilizing Malachi right and that comes from him as a parent, not what’s best for the team.

I am fine with him choosing not to post but don’t put it on fans and posters because there has been a lot of positive from posters hoping Malachi rebounds from a rough shooting season.

 

[Redbirdfan06]

Pedon recruited transfers

Winning programs
Poindexter Virginia (21-14)
Davis Wisconsin (20-15)
Lieb Illinois (20-13)
Banks SIU (23 - 10)


Losing programs
Burford Elon (10-22) (Dak coached)
Luke Kasubke Kansas St (14-17)
Foster (7 -26) Monmouth (two previous seasons Foster was on team they had winning seasons

Personnally i think he leans towards recruiting transfers from P5 programs or winning programs. You could move K State and Monmouth had Winning season 2/3 Foster years.

One could argue that the Foster, Banks, and Burford, who all played significant minutes on non P5 teams, have paid more dividends than players that were on P5 programs with less playing time. "Moving down" in competition hasn't translated to huge dividends from those players yet.

Personally I would have kept Lewis and in the right role he makes an impact. We should not run isolation plays for him or expect great passing. Ignoring the past two games, I will take his energy, rebounding, and defense. He can't guard folks like Brodie but he can guard other versatile players. I know we would all prefer him to play at consistent level.

I am not sure why Schmitt and Sissoko were retained if there was not any intention to play them. They played sparingly last year and nothing has changed.

In regards to Lewis, I think he saw few minutes in the last game was because of his lackluster defense on devries.

 

[Reggie Redbird]

I knew Judson had a lot of experience, went back and looked at Slay, didn’t realize he had as much experience as he does. So that comment was probably a bit off base, but on the other hand less excuse not to be successful. I suppose I’m just frustrated at the state of team/program

I think you’re spot on looking at our staff last year, especially having to utilize our “Chief of Staff” as an assistant. Our 2nd assistant was a guy we had hired to be DOBO. What that did was set us behind in recruiting having to wait until the season ended to officially recognize that Offutt departed. Not having our top recruiter or even an extra body to recruit hurt.

Nobody knows the conversations Brennan and Pedon had. It would be interesting to know what the plan presented was on upgrading the talent on the roster. It would also be interesting to know if ISU has been able to deliver Pedon the resources it said it would give him.

One thing about the roster: everyone on it is now a Pedon guy. By keeping someone from the previous staff, he made the choice not to take that scholarship and invest it in someone else not once but twice. Like it or not, the portal and NIL has made this more of a business.