While sitting there last night I am only further confused at our staff's evaluation of the team it thought it had. Were we unable to recruit over any of these guys? Did we think that Kendal Lewis's 5th year was the year he would figure it out? Why are Schmidtt and Sissoko on this roster? That is two spots that we couldn't recruit over and improve the roster? Do we only look in the portal for guys from smaller programs? In the game thread someone mentioned some being basketball losers. Hard truth is many on the roster come from previous schools with a losing record. To me I'm in the portal looking for guys from established programs that were recruited over but will work their ass off to be here and play more minutes. With the exception of Poindexter all the rest come from unsuccessful programs where they were average at best. I honestly do feel bad for Poindexter. He looks mentally broken at this point. All in all, Pedon needs to improve his staff mightily when it comes to recruiting and connections. We need a jolt in talent evaluation and acquisition!
Talent Evaluation and Recruiting
- Thread starter Birdman85
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I'll go a different direction. I don't believe we lack in talent. I think we lack a semblance of an offense for our players to work with in. Our staff is not putting our players in a position to use their talents. Right now, our offense centers around breaking people down 1 on 1, and shooting 3s. There are virtually no set plays, there is no off-ball movement, and like 80% of our offense runs toward the sidelines not towards the basket. These things leave a lot of players to just kind of stand and watch the action, and allows the defense to defend us with minimal effort.
Pence is a better slasher/driver than he is a 3pt shooter, if we have him go to the hole or run some back door screens, dude is probably averaging 10pts a game. Mal's 3pt shoot woes would be helped greatly if we did more penetration into the lane to pull his defender back or ran some off ball screens to get him open. We should be running screens at the top of the key with our bigs where they roll to the basket, or run high low sets with two bigs to better utilize our post players abilities.
I can't go through everyone on the roster, but these are the ones that stand out to me, and I'm not a coach so take what I say with a grain of salt, but these are my observations. But, in my opinion we could go out and get 5 star kids, but they are still going to look like a juco team with the offense we run.
Redbirdfan06
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I think bringing in guys from established programs is a bit overstated. Lieb and Davis came from programs that won a big ten regular season title. Banks was on a Southern team that won 23 games last year.
I think we need to find guys that fit whatever system Pedon is wanting to run. But, I don’t know if this coaching staff has figured that out yet.
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BirdGrad2011
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I don’t think we lack talent like DWRedbird said. We just don’t have the right talent. We don’t have a bonafide scorer. You look at teams like Indiana State and they added Isaiah Swope from USI. Averaged 15 there as a freshman and now 18 at INSU. We added overlooked guys like Kasubke, Davis. Fine guys on the roster, but when you can’t score where do you turn? We don’t have that type of get a bucket guy. The hole at the wing is glaring.
DaveBird10
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Ill go a different direction
Lieb-Illinois
Davis- Wisconsin
Poindexter- Virginia
Kasubke- Kansas State
our leading scorers
Burford- Elon
Foster- Monmouth.
We have talented kids and talented individuals but we need a guy, a go to scorer. We need Bryson, Osiris, a Jackie Carmichael or a Antonio Reeves. We have 10 guys deep but nobody to go get a basket to stop a run or drought when we need it. When we went on the run to cut it to 10 Drake ran plays thru Brodie and Devries and our run was quickly stopped. Devries for Drake can get them basket and stop a run when they want to. Who on our team do you feel comfortable doing that? We have 3 guys averaging over 10ppg but we just don't have a natural go to guy or real threat. We have lots of pieces but we don't have a guy that is good enough to be on an all MVC 1st, 2nd or 3rd team and imo that hurts us in our offense and is showing in our confidence.
- Thread starter
- #6
Drake 77-56 Illinois State (Jan 17, 2024) Game Stats - ESPN
Complete team stats and game leaders for the Drake Bulldogs vs. Illinois State Redbirds NCAAM game from January 17, 2024 on ESPN.
We shot 5-18 from 3. 18-47 from the field. Not sure where you guys see the talent. Most of you can't explain a lick of what makes several of the top college basketball teams offense click or what their structure is. There is one common denominator with good offense and that is making shots. Burford and Foster better score because they are liabilities on the defensive end. Banks might be the worst point guards I have seen at using a ball screen. He comes off the screen horizontally not making the defense commit to anything. They all hold the ball and over dribble which kills all offense. With the way these guys play I think they kill any offensive scheme we might have planned. We don't play fast but only have one guy that can get to the rim on his own in the halfcourt. It is a bad mesh of players bottom line.
Earlier in the season we attacked the basket and got some high percentage shots. There were times Banks & Burford were slicing up defenses pretty well. We were getting to the line more. Now it feels like we chuck up 3's just trying to spark something. When you can't shoot for shit, but you can rebound, attacking the basket seems like a better plan. Better percentage shots and a chance for second chance points. But we don't do that.
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BirdGrad2011
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We do have talent. Even without running a great offense a lot of our shots are open or even wide open. We just don’t make them. Foster is very talented. His flaw is he rarely kicks it out and defense crashes on him because our guards can’t shoot right now. Idk how you fix it, but to say we don’t have talent is way oversimplified.Drake 77-56 Illinois State (Jan 17, 2024) Game Stats - ESPN
Complete team stats and game leaders for the Drake Bulldogs vs. Illinois State Redbirds NCAAM game from January 17, 2024 on ESPN.www.espn.com
We shot 5-18 from 3. 18-47 from the field. Not sure where you guys see the talent. Most of you can't explain a lick of what makes several of the top college basketball teams offense click or what their structure is. There is one common denominator with good offense and that is making shots. Burford and Foster better score because they are liabilities on the defensive end. Banks might be the worst point guards I have seen at using a ball screen. He comes off the screen horizontally not making the defense commit to anything. They all hold the ball and over dribble which kills all offense. With the way these guys play I think they kill any offensive scheme we might have planned. We don't play fast but only have one guy that can get to the rim on his own in the halfcourt. It is a bad mesh of players bottom line.
SlackBooDom
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Talent is kind of just a buzzword. Humdinger has probably agreed the most, but we lack good basketball players. We don’t have guys who do multiple things well, we don’t have guys who make their teammates better, and we don’t have anyone really capable of doing those things. Foster and Burford are our best players seemingly and I’m not confident they’d be able to play a game of 2 on 2 because neither has passed enough this year that they’d be able to inbound the ball. The real problem now is that the attributes you’re all looking for: talented, winning program, does multiple things well, and all that is exactly what everyone is looking to pull from the portal. When you miss those guys, you end up with…. Our roster. How do we sell to better recruits? A better offense. Coaches who have ties to players. Dakich coached Burford at Elon. I’ve pointed it out plenty but the guards and wings in this roster likely wouldn’t win the OVC. Pedon has to do a top-down overhaul after two years to save his job. No matter what happens, we desperately need scoring guards who also share the basketball and wings who can shoot or this is just going to continue.
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BirdGrad2011
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Why? So he can say again how Mal is not being used correctly? Mal’s decision making during this losing streak has been horrendous. He’s missed so many of his fadeaways short. Just take the easy shot once in a while.
Geez, have a little decency, civility and respect. It’s mid-major basketball. No need to attack kids or their parents.
Birdfriend72
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I was on a nice recruiting visit this past weekend. I got a portal recruiting education. I was at a nice mid-major. The coach mentioned he doesn't like the portal and the NIL because they aren't being used for what they were intended for. Take Reeves for example. He knew where he was going when he left ISU. He wasn't going to Loyola. That leaves a lot of kids in the portal without a lot of college experience and stats- like what we have on our roster. He said that leaves Juco or HS kids. He said he prefers the high school kids because he can mold them. That sounds like what we have here. Lieb, Davis, and Poindexter might well be great kids. That doesn't mean they will dominate the Valley. I think this might be why some of the other coaches in the valley are successful. They aren't looking for instant success.
Birdfriend72
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Shooting 27 percent is shooting 27 percent. A lot of these shots are wide-open. Our best shooter might be a freshman. It's hard to believe that the seniors are going to improve much on that at this point. The number of assists a game can be a matter of offensive scheme.
Birdfriend72
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Speaking of fade aways- we take some mighty tough shots. Drake had 8 layups in the first half. It's amazing what a few screens and guys moving their feet will do.
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BirdGrad2011
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It’s not an attack. Malachi is pressing. Pops has told us the problem with how Mal is used. I’m sure he’d even admit some of the shots are not great. Is it Mal or is it staff? Probably both. He can be and was early a dynamic player.
I still think talent is a bigger component than some think. Maybe it’s just results oriented, but I look at it, how many guys do we have that would start on top half Valley team? Foster for sure, maybe Burford in the right situation? Who else? I think the 3 freshman all have promise, but haven’t done a lot this year. It’s gets said you don’t win with Freshman, but several teams always have freshman who are big contributors. Could coaching/scheming make the players better? Sure, but we have a new coach who is still figuring it out and a young staff so that part isn’t great either. Just have to hope something clicks for players and coaches this year. Next year need an up grade of both players and staff, and yes, SO much easier said than done.
I have liked the coaching staff to this point but I am growing concerned. There isn't much flow to the offense - shot making would help but the point still stands. One issue I have is our players never make a cut with purpose, and we often don't come off the screener tight. This makes both cuts and screens pointless. Are we not coaching our players to move effectively off the ball? We brought most of the coaching staff back; actually, we upgraded the coaching staff since Offutt did not coach a single game last year. We have 2nd year Dakich, a more experienced Slay, and a very experienced Judson. We even have 2 2nd year GAs. Either our coaches are not training or game planning well or our players aren't implementing... or both.
Yes, it would add a lot of perspective if the 5 biggest know-it-alls from each fan base were forced to play on the court, and the players/coaches/families got to scrutinize their play and coaching from message boards and twitter:
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BirdGrad2011
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Dumb. There’s a reason they are getting scholarships and NIL vs us posting on a message board. If you are coach and don’t want to be criticized then give up your hundreds of thousands or millions and get a normal job. Being an elite D1 talent means that you will be criticized if you don’t perform. When people pay to watch you play they will be critical. Don’t like it then find something else.