Spring Practice!!!

[StLRedbird]

Agreed. It looks like a good unit on paper but injuries have a way of shredding the sheets.

Thank you for doing these spring training reports. It's a lifeline for us out-of-towners.

 

[fourthandshort]

Interesting about Rittenhouse. I think he's earned that nod on the depth chart. Sends a good message to the team, but I doubt that's part of it.

The OL seems to be the biggest concern. They struggled last year against the better teams in the league, and their depth was tested by injuries. Looks like a shake-and-bake unit in '24. If they gel quickly, I think that'd mean really good things for the Redbirds.

From what I heard from pretty good source back in 2014, Blake Winkler and Tre Roberson shared reps 50/50 in August fall camp most of the camp. Decision to go with Roberson was made late in process. This despite the anemic offense during 2013 .. though that may have been ore on the OL Coach turned OC Barnett. To my understanding, he had very specific personnel groups for certain play packages, and was ultra conservative ... so opposing teams were able to figure us out very easily.

But Spack gave Winkler and Roberson equal opportunities that summer with an unproven Beathard now at the helm. My guess is Winkler made the most of his opportunity, but Roberson dual threat and deep ball won out. I assume Rittenhouse will rise further to this challenge, and so will Rubley. And with Rubley's size, arm, and surprising mobility (per Spack), this will be a dogfight that will only help both players be better. Just need to keep the locker room together.

Good to see Spack/Peterson have given Rittenhouse the incumbent status ... he earned it stepping in the way he did the last 2 games.

p.s. fourth is happy once again ... it looks like we once again will have 2 QBs capable of starting and using the entire playbook.

 

[MadBird]

From what I heard from pretty good source back in 2014, Blake Winkler and Tre Roberson shared reps 50/50 in August fall camp most of the camp. Decision to go with Roberson was made late in process. This despite the anemic offense during 2013 .. though that may have been ore on the OL Coach turned OC Barnett. To my understanding, he had very specific personnel groups for certain play packages, and was ultra conservative ... so opposing teams were able to figure us out very easily.

But Spack gave Winkler and Roberson equal opportunities that summer with an unproven Beathard now at the helm. My guess is Winkler made the most of his opportunity, but Roberson dual threat and deep ball won out. I assume Rittenhouse will rise further to this challenge, and so will Rubley. And with Rubley's size, arm, and surprising mobility (per Spack), this will be a dogfight that will only help both players be better. Just need to keep the locker room together.

Good to see Spack/Peterson have given Rittenhouse the incumbent status ... he earned it stepping in the way he did the last 2 games.

p.s. fourth is happy once again ... it looks like we once again will have 2 QBs capable of starting and using the entire playbook.

And Hey, Rittenhouse is a Spack HS recruit!!!

 

[StLRedbird]

From what I heard from pretty good source back in 2014, Blake Winkler and Tre Roberson shared reps 50/50 in August fall camp most of the camp. Decision to go with Roberson was made late in process. This despite the anemic offense during 2013 .. though that may have been ore on the OL Coach turned OC Barnett. To my understanding, he had very specific personnel groups for certain play packages, and was ultra conservative ... so opposing teams were able to figure us out very easily.

But Spack gave Winkler and Roberson equal opportunities that summer with an unproven Beathard now at the helm. My guess is Winkler made the most of his opportunity, but Roberson dual threat and deep ball won out. I assume Rittenhouse will rise further to this challenge, and so will Rubley. And with Rubley's size, arm, and surprising mobility (per Spack), this will be a dogfight that will only help both players be better. Just need to keep the locker room together.

Good to see Spack/Peterson have given Rittenhouse the incumbent status ... he earned it stepping in the way he did the last 2 games.

p.s. fourth is happy once again ... it looks like we once again will have 2 QBs capable of starting and using the entire playbook.

That makes sense about the '13 team and explains some of your comments about how not all 5-6 seasons are complete failure - that that one set up '14. You know, I wish that when we have this luxury (two apparently game-ready QBs) that we would give the second-stringer a series in the first half of every game. Maybe another in the second half, depending on situation. And particularly when the QBs offer contrasting styles like Roberson/Winkler and apparently Rittenhouse/Rubley. Gives more for opposing Ds to prepare for.

I also think that the QBs that drop to FCS sometimes only lack FBS bodies. I'm thinking about Nick Baker and doing some projecting onto Rittenhouse here. Definitely a good problem to have.

 

[fourthandshort]

And Hey, Rittenhouse is a Spack HS recruit!!!

that was pointed out last fall, but yes fourth very much approves !!!

So let's see .. 2 quality QBs, one a HS recruit, and we throw to TEs !!

Unfortunately, this cuts both ways .... as fourth isn't happy when he has nothing to complain about ... I need to find something quick !!!

 

[fourthandshort]

That makes sense about the '13 team and explains some of your comments about how not all 5-6 seasons are complete failure - that that one set up '14. You know, I wish that when we have this luxury (two apparently game-ready QBs) that we would give the second-stringer a series in the first half of every game. Maybe another in the second half, depending on situation. And particularly when the QBs offer contrasting styles like Roberson/Winkler and apparently Rittenhouse/Rubley. Gives more for opposing Ds to prepare for.

I also think that the QBs that drop to FCS sometimes only lack FBS bodies. I'm thinking about Nick Baker and doing some projecting onto Rittenhouse here. Definitely a good problem to have.

agree, it would be nice to get quality reps for both QBs come fall, especially given TR's quip about Redbird QBs getting injured late in season lately.

Btw .. I made same comparison of Rittenhouse skill set to SIU's Nic Baker ... very very similar. Except Rittenhouse is bigger by several inches, and looks like he has better upside IMO.

 

[crazzymark]

To short to win the MVFC no less a FCS championship. Needs to be able to see the receivers over the huge o-line...Tua has the same problem with the Fins.

 

[fourthandshort]

To short to win the MVFC no less a FCS championship. Needs to be able to see the receivers over the huge o-line...Tua has the same problem with the Fins.

I think you are thinking of Bryce Young, who is smidge over 5'10" and has struggled in NFL for sure. I always liked CJ Stroud better at NFL level for reasons you said .. he's 6'3" and has very similar skill set as Young.

Tua is 6'1" and was doing very well, until his concussions this year ... but he led NFL in QBR in 2022 at 105, and was at 101 in 2023. He also led in yds per attempt and yards per catch in 2022. He can certainly play QB in NFL at 6'1". .. but I'll assume you confused Alabama QBs

Noting, Mahomes and Aaron Rodgers are 6'2", and will go down as 2 of the greatest QBs of all time. Russell Wilson had a real nice run at 5'11". Same for Drew Brees at 6'0". It's more about pocket sense than ability when you are undersized at QB .. some have it, some don't. Oddly, I thought Bryce Jefferson would develop as a QB because he had good pocket sense and didn't seem to rattle .. he just couldn't throw it on the run or under pressure.

Rittenhouse is 5'11" ... could have sworn he was listed at 6'0", but roster shows 5'11". But Nic Baker is listed at 5'9" .. and he is not as mobile as Rittenhouse IMO but very comfortable in the pocket.

More importantly, Rittenhouse showed us he can handle the pocket at FCS level so far in his 2 games .. not to mention, a huge improvement over his similar stint at the end of the 2022 season. Now he hasn't played any of the big dogs in MVFC yet. But he outplayed Tommy Shuster on his field last year .. QBR was 95.6 to Shusters 83.3. Total combined yards of 307 to Shusters 191 .. and no TOs to his 1. In a game, both teams were playing for their playoff lives.

ISU - Passing

Player	Cmp	Att.	Yds.	TD	INT	Long	Sack
Rittenhouse,Tommy	21	33	241	1	0	28	0
Totals	21	33	241	1	0	28	0

UND - Passing

Player	Cmp	Att.	Yds.	TD	Int.	Long	Sack
Schuster,Tommy	14	22	169	1	1	32	0
Totals	14	22	169	1	1	32	0

ISU - Rushing

Player	Att.	Gain	Loss	Net	TD	Lg.	Avg.
Blakemore,Mason	22	103	2	101	2	18	4.6
Rittenhouse,Tommy	9	66	0	66	0	20	7.3
Mueller,Cole	11	48	4	44	0	12	4.0
Wright,Wenkers	4	14	0	14	0	8	3.5
Totals	46	231	6	225	2	20	4.9

UND - Rushing

Player	Att.	Gain	Loss	Net	TD	Lg.	Avg.
Ziebarth,Gaven	16	78	4	74	2	21	4.6
Smith,Isaiah	12	47	2	45	0	13	3.8
Skokna,Luke	4	26	0	26	0	9	6.5
Schuster,Tommy	3	22	0	22	0	11	7.3
Vaughn,Quincy	1	2	0	2	0	2	2.0
Totals	36	175	6	169	2	21	4.7

169

1

1

32

0

Team Statistics​

Team Statistics

Game Stats	ISU	UND
Total Yards	466	338
Pass Yards	241	169
Rushing Yards	225	169
Penalty Yards	9-60	2-11
1st Downs	26	20
3rd Downs	10-18	1-9
4th Downs	2-4	2-2
TOP	31:13	28:47

 

[MadBird]

Tre Roberson listed at 6', just a touch taller than Ritt. He seemed to find the receivers okay.

 

[fourthandshort]

Tre Roberson listed at 6', just a touch taller than Ritt. He seemed to find the receivers okay.

 

[StLRedbird]

agree, it would be nice to get quality reps for both QBs come fall, especially given TR's quip about Redbird QBs getting injured late in season lately.

Btw .. I made same comparison of Rittenhouse skill set to SIU's Nic Baker ... very very similar. Except Rittenhouse is bigger by several inches, and looks like he has better upside IMO.

One of the things that has stuck out to me about Rittenhouse is that I think he sees the field well and that's hard to teach. In '22 he quickly got happy feet in the pocket and just relied on making things happen with his legs. Definite improvement in '23. If we see anything like that jump in '24, look out.

Interesting you think he's a better runner than Baker. I'll have to chew on that some more, but I'm buyin' what yer sellin'. Rittenhouse probably stays with a run longer - willing to accept more contact. Both are dangerous.

 

[fourthandshort]

One of the things that has stuck out to me about Rittenhouse is that I think he sees the field well and that's hard to teach. In '22 he quickly got happy feet in the pocket and just relied on making things happen with his legs. Definite improvement in '23. If we see anything like that jump in '24, look out.

Interesting you think he's a better runner than Baker. I'll have to chew on that some more, but I'm buyin' what yer sellin'. Rittenhouse probably stays with a run longer - willing to accept more contact. Both are dangerous.

I saw Baker against Idaho in playoffs and against us in 2022 ... he wasn't as agile as I thought he was, he's mainly slippery in the pocket to buy time.

edit: clarification ... I think/meant he has potential to be better than Baker. Or put another way ... it seems like he can already do what I pictured Bryce Jefferson could do, but was wrong ... so buyer beware with my insights !!!!

 

[BJJ guy]

SPRING CAMP REPORT 3: The Grind Continues - Illinois State University Athletics

In what has become a regular occurrence this spring, the Illinois State football team was met with rainy and cold weather Tuesday morning, which forced the Redbirds

goredbirds.com

 

[fourthandshort]

SPRING CAMP REPORT 3: The Grind Continues - Illinois State University Athletics

In what has become a regular occurrence this spring, the Illinois State football team was met with rainy and cold weather Tuesday morning, which forced the Redbirds

goredbirds.com

Some people carry on and on about their favorite sounds of nature ... rivers, wind, trees, birds, etc

Not me ... I like the sounds of sports:

• crack of a wooden bat while the beer guy is yelling, "beer here"
• 10 sets of gym shoes squeaking on wooden floor
• basketball bouncing on same wooden floor
• ice skates carving up the just zampbonied ice followed by a wicked Bobby Hull slapshot, as the crowd gasps in anticpation
• tennis ball and shoe sounds going back and forth during a long ralley, then McEnroe yelling at line judge
• big hitter (dalia lama level) teeing off on a par 5
• saving best for last .. the sound of shoulder pads and helmets cracking against each other after a way too long offseason !!!!!!

I think I have a business idea ???

 

[CaliRdBrd]

This might be as good a place for this as any, didn't think it deserved a thread. Here's the Spack resume at ISU. Clearly the best performance of anyone to hold the job, but the trend ain't our friend, so to speak.

Year	Record	Sagarin(FCS)	Sagarin(D1)
2023	6-5	12	123
2022	6-5	31	158
2021	4-7	34	158
2020	1-3	32	158
2019	10-5	12	122
2018	6-5	6	95
2017	6-5	12	106
2016	6-6	16	110
2015	10-3	2	76

Year	Record	Sagarin(FCS)	Sagarin(D1)
2014	13-2	2	41
2013	5-6	23	124
2012	9-4	14	105
2011	7-4	9	108
2010	6-5	51	158
2009	6-5	35	149

'24 is a huge year. 15th season at the helm for Spack. His resume puts him head and shoulders over those that came before him, but has not been good enough lately. Two years left on his contract, I think '24 determines whether we buy out his last year or extend him.

Going to attend my first spring game this year and will be focusing on the OL.

Tallest Pygmy.

 

[CaliRdBrd]

Some of us talk like going 6-5 in the MVFC is a failure. The goal is playoffs every year, year in and year out. But 6-5 in the Valley is a record the vast majority of FCS football programs envy.

Over the years, fourth has documented how it is equivalent to 7-4, usually 8-3, in lesser conferences (all of them). He's documented how the conference routinely gets screwed by the FCS selection committee.

But it's time for the 'birds to get back to competing for Valley championships, and therefore nat'l championships. '24 can't get here soon enough. BTW, does the spring game feature a tailgate? Getting ahead of myself...

6-5 in the valley is definitely better than 6-5 than any other conference in FCS, but it’s not gonna get you to the playoffs and, frankly, it shouldn’t. It also hinges greatly on who those wins and losses are against.

 

[Total Red]

Rubley, Loyd bring passing game chemistry to Illinois State

Rubley and Loyd transferred from Kansas State.

pantagraph.com

 

[fourthandshort]

Rubley, Loyd bring passing game chemistry to Illinois State

Rubley and Loyd transferred from Kansas State.

pantagraph.com

Also glad to see we didn't blow any of our limited IPF budget on the goal posts !!!

Though that's got to be at least 5 rolls of yellow duct tape .. not cheap, unless you load up the 11% off Menards bag.

 

[TIMMY]

Also glad to see we didn't blow any of our limited IPF budget on the goal posts !!!

Though that's got to be at least 5 rolls of yellow duct tape .. not cheap, unless you load up the 11% off Menards bag.

View attachment 1452

A big red X would be just as useful.

 

[fourthandshort]

6-5 in the valley is definitely better than 6-5 than any other conference in FCS, but it’s not gonna get you to the playoffs and, frankly, it shouldn’t. It also hinges greatly on who those wins and losses are against.

Some years, it is enough to get into the playoffs .. at least 3 times in last 10 years, all by MVFC teams .. and we fared well all 3 times:

• 6-5 WIU did it in 2015 and made it to round of 16 (beat Dayton 9-2), losing to us 10-3 ranked 5/5
• 6-5 ISUr/we did it in 2016 and clearly outplayed 9-2 UCA on road for 3 qtrs, but lost by 7 after gifting them 10 pts in Q4 on 2 special teams gaffes. UCA finished 10-3 ranked 14/16 .. but they dropped because of us.
• 6-5 UNI did it in 2018 and made it to round of 16, losing by 5 on road to 10-3 UCD ranked 7/8

Might be more, though doubt it from the Spack era ... which is exactly when MVFC took the reins from CAA and began dominating FCS playoffs, largely as a result of the Dakotas coming over to the MVFC. And when I say MVFC has dominated, I mean excluding NDSU's record. Ive mentioned this before ... but the aggregate playoff record of the MVFC (excl NDSU), and even before SDSU dominated the last 2 years, was right about .650 .. it's higher now as a result of SDSU the last 2 years.

So we have won over 2/3rds of the playoff games against non-MVFC teams since 2010... excluding NDSU's record at around .950 win %. So between SDSU (pre-Nattys), UNI, YSU, ISUr and then the occasional WIU, ISUb, USD, MoST appearance .. all these teams are winning at 2 to 1 rate. YSU made a run. We made a run. SDSU did pretty well BEFORE the last 2 Nattys, but kept running into NDSU - lost 4 times in Fargo or could have gone further.

What this says is, the MVFC arguably deserve more playoff bids than it gets. When your able to remove NDSU over the last 14 years and still beat 2 of 3 playoff opponents ... it's not hard to make a case we deserved another team, or higher seeds most years. No other conference is close.

And yes, most seasons, 6-5, assuming an FBS loss, in the MVFC is almost always a very competitive team in FCS.