South Dakota 10/23

[Total Red]

I don't have any problem at all with Spack's approach to the game. In the brief postgame interview at the end of the USD game, he said - I'm paraphrasing - we're the Redbirds, we have to run the football. When it's working, it's a thing of beauty.

Coach Spack has frequently spoken of the need for a balanced offense. His point is that you can't maximize your running game if opponents don't respect your ability to throw the ball and you can't maximize your passing game if opponents don't respect your ability to run the ball. I agree.

It's really based on personnel more than philosophy. In 2016, 2017, 2018 we passed for more yardage than we rushed. In 2019, even with Robinson as a senior, it was fairly even until Brady got injured. The Redbirds finished that season as a run heavy (Robinson heavy) offense and it has leaned towards the run since.

Fans look at a game like South Dakota with 161 yards rushing and 84 passing and say, "Oh this is a coach that wants to run the ball." Sure Coach Spack wants to run it, and he definitely wants a team that can plow ahead for a yard on 3rd and 1 or 4th or 1, but looking at the larger picture it depends on the players he has.

 

[MadBird]

Quote of the day, from today's Pantagraph, from Coach Spack:

"I've never been a fan of co-coordinators, but I think these guys are special in the way they get along and how they think."

Discuss . . .

 

[TIMMY]

Quote of the day, from today's Pantagraph, from Coach Spack:

"I've never been a fan of co-coordinators, but I think these guys are special in the way they get along and how they think."

Discuss . . .

It's Bobby's and Joe's, not X's and O's. Co-coordinators have worked out fine in other places. QB mechanics are for shit. But they have a QB coach.

 

[StLRedbird]

Coach Spack has frequently spoken of the need for a balanced offense. His point is that you can't maximize your running game if opponents don't respect your ability to throw the ball and you can't maximize your passing game if opponents don't respect your ability to run the ball. I agree.

It's really based on personnel more than philosophy. In 2016, 2017, 2018 we passed for more yardage than we rushed. In 2019, even with Robinson as a senior, it was fairly even until Brady got injured. The Redbirds finished that season as a run heavy (Robinson heavy) offense and it has leaned towards the run since.

Fans look at a game like South Dakota with 161 yards rushing and 84 passing and say, "Oh this is a coach that wants to run the ball." Sure Coach Spack wants to run it, and he definitely wants a team that can plow ahead for a yard on 3rd and 1 or 4th or 1, but looking at the larger picture it depends on the players he has.

I wouldn't take issue with any of that. Except that this isn't game 9 with your starting QB - and most of your WR corps - having gone down with injuries. Personnel clearly drove the play calling in late 2019. Maybe even in the spring of '21. But after a full camp and most of a season this year, I think you'd hope to be coaching 'em up beyond WR screens being 2/3 of your passing game.

Anyway, we're mathematically alive for a playoff spot. If that becomes untrue, I sure hope we open things up and see who can get it done on Saturdays.

 

[Virginia Redbird]

Quote of the day, from today's Pantagraph, from Coach Spack:

"I've never been a fan of co-coordinators, but I think these guys are special in the way they get along and how they think."

Discuss . . .

Well, what the heck. They get along so well and they actually think. The team can't pass the ball a damn but they get along so well and are just so special. Kinda heartwarming Hallmark moment. My heart is full...

 

[fourthandshort]

Bottom line for me .... take away Matt Brown (prior regime recruit), Tre Roberson (FBS transfer, who had ups and downs passing but went on a tear the last 9 games in 2014) and Jake Kolbe (2016 only), we are a below average passing program and recruiter/developer of QBs. OC's have come and gone .. so Spack is the common denominator.

So while I do believe Spack understands the importance and would like better balance in our run vs pass attack, he is not good at putting together the right OC/QB other than already noted exceptions. Other aspect Ive mentioned before that is even more telling IMO ... when have we ever had an impressive 2-3 deep at QB like other programs .. or programs that always seem to have another guy to plug a year later. We never have QBs waiting in the wings who pan out ... except Kolbe for one year in 2016.

And he did let Kolbe throw the ball a lot in 2016, we had 3 WRs in top 9 in MVFC .... just not sure how that fell apart so fast a year later with most of the same personal .. I posted Kolbe's fall off in 2017 from 2016 when he was right there with the best QBs in MVFC, who were also the best QBs in all of FCS in 2016 .. a great year for MVFC QBs, including Kolbe.

But to Spack's credit, he did let Kolbe throw the ball, even with a good run game that year (RB by committee had like 5 ypc combined).
- In 2014, Roberson averaged 23 passes per game .. granted he was our 2nd leading rusher with 11 carries per game and netted 1,000 rush yards.
- In 2016, Kolbe averaged 30 passes per game .. and just 6-7 carries per game netting -21 yards for season.
- So Roberson may have dropped back to pass closer to 30 times per game, same as Spack allowed Kolbe in 2016.

Problem is Kolbe lost all of his confidence in 2017. That could be entirely on Kolbe .. but I didn't see it that way.

And when will we have a #2 we can trust with the playbook if #1 goes down.

 

[MadBird]

Bottom line for me .... take away Matt Brown (prior regime recruit), Tre Roberson (FBS transfer, who had ups and downs passing but went on a tear the last 9 games in 2014) and Jake Kolbe (2016 only), we are a below average passing program and recruiter/developer of QBs. OC's have come and gone .. so Spack is the common denominator.

So while I do believe Spack understands the importance and would like better balance in our run vs pass attack, he is not good at putting together the right OC/QB other than already noted exceptions. Other aspect Ive mentioned before that is even more telling IMO ... when have we ever had an impressive 2-3 deep at QB like other programs .. or programs that always seem to have another guy to plug a year later. We never have QBs waiting in the wings who pan out ... except Kolbe for one year in 2016.

And he did let Kolbe throw the ball a lot in 2016, we had 3 WRs in top 9 in MVFC .... just not sure how that fell apart so fast a year later with most of the same personal .. I posted Kolbe's fall off in 2017 from 2016 when he was right there with the best QBs in MVFC, who were also the best QBs in all of FCS in 2016 .. a great year for MVFC QBs, including Kolbe.

But to Spack's credit, he did let Kolbe throw the ball, even with a good run game that year (RB by committee had like 5 ypc combined).
- In 2014, Roberson averaged 23 passes per game .. granted he was our 2nd leading rusher with 11 carries per game and netted 1,000 rush yards.
- In 2016, Kolbe averaged 30 passes per game .. and just 6-7 carries per game netting -21 yards for season.
- So Roberson may have dropped back to pass closer to 30 times per game, same as Spack allowed Kolbe in 2016.

Problem is Kolbe lost all of his confidence in 2017. That could be entirely on Kolbe .. but I didn't see it that way.

And when will we have a #2 we can trust with the playbook if #1 goes down.

4th, all good. BUT, you say "take away Matt Brown . . . Tre Roberson . . . Jake Kolbe . . . " we are below average etc.

BUT Spack has been our coach for 13 years, and those guys count for 8 of 13 years of ISU football. He didn't recruit Brown, but he surely "let him loose" for 4 years and Matt could've got the hell out if he'd wanted to. Tre came here because of something to do with Spack - the OC, Spack, the rest of the team? Kolbe did what he did, he's in the top 5 of several records categories, no matter if they broke him or shuffled him off or whatever. I was not a Brady Davis fan, but he was brought in here as an FBS transfer, just never panned out and then got hurt.

So I'm just not quite as solid in declaring it a wasteland. Now, the OC issue, a problem. Have we ever had a deep QB "room"? No. Are we hurting right now? Yes.

But I've posted on this before, in the past, and it speaks to your issue about depth. Not just our 2-3 deep, but no guy we've had at QB who has left has ever excelled at QB any place else. We've had guys under Spack who've transferred out, but none has gone elsewhere and been a decent QB. Baltz still unknown. So whether it's Spack, the specific OC/OC's plural, the recruiting coordinator, talent evaluation, whatever, combo of all, at this point, and the last two/three years, we're in a tough spot. Gotta get it figgered out.

 

[CaliRdBrd]

Well, what the heck. They get along so well and they actually think. The team can't pass the ball a damn but they get along so well and are just so special. Kinda heartwarming Hallmark moment. My heart is full...

Sounds like Nagy

 

[dpdoughbird06]

Well, what the heck. They get along so well and they actually think. The team can't pass the ball a damn but they get along so well and are just so special. Kinda heartwarming Hallmark moment. My heart is full...

Pantagraph article this week delved into the co-coordinator dynamic a bit: Irvin calls plays and decides run/pass, but when he calls for a pass Muhammad-Lankford makes specific decision on which play to run.

So you could view it as we actually have an OC, but with an assistant who has a specific area of responsibility.

 

[Virginia Redbird]

Thanks for the info dp.

Just my own opinion but it seems that this system just delays and confuses things. So if we follow that line of thought we have an OC who does not really understand the passing game and has to stop and ask his assistant, the passing game guru, what play to call when the OC decides it is time to pass the ball. He does not consult the passing guru when he wants to run the ball.

No matter how it is spun in the end it comes down to is it working. It is not working. For that matter it did not work before. The quote from Spack that he has never been a fan of Co-Coordinators is pretty interesting to me. Since he has now done it twice...it just seems to be an odd comment.

 

[MadBird]

Thanks for the info dp.

Just my own opinion but it seems that this system just delays and confuses things. So if we follow that line of thought we have an OC who does not really understand the passing game and has to stop and ask his assistant, the passing game guru, what play to call when the OC decides it is time to pass the ball. He does not consult the passing guru when he wants to run the ball.

No matter how it is spun in the end it comes down to is it working. It is not working. For that matter it did not work before. The quote from Spack that he has never been a fan of Co-Coordinators is pretty interesting to me. Since he has now done it twice...it just seems to be an odd comment.

These were my thoughts exactly.

I assume all those guys are in constant communication on the headphones, but still . . . . Another item from the Panty story was that Irvin, the playcaller, moved down to the sidelines last week. So, at least they were sitting next to each other in the both before. But now, not so much.

And why I asked the question about possible salary limitations in the assistants' "pool" - if Spack doesn't like co-coordinators, but he named two relatively inexperienced guys as co-coordinators, is it because he didn't have the dough to go out and hire a "real" OC?? That would be a shame.

 

[Bird Friend]

Pantagraph article this week delved into the co-coordinator dynamic a bit: Irvin calls plays and decides run/pass, but when he calls for a pass Muhammad-Lankford makes specific decision on which play to run.

So you could view it as we actually have an OC, but with an assistant who has a specific area of responsibility.

Someone will eventually build an algorithm for your iPad/tablet that decides the optimal play based on down, position, personnel, opponent personnel, time of game, etc. They're damn near close to that in major league baseball . . . Who needs an OC when you have the right AI?

 

[TIMMY]

Someone will eventually build an algorithm for your iPad/tablet that decides the optimal play based on down, position, personnel, opponent personnel, time of game, etc. They're damn near close to that in major league baseball . . . Who needs an OC when you have the right AI?

Interesting. That's pretty much what you do when you break down opponents' film, chart tendencies, down and distance, etc. and build a game plan and call sheet. I used a program called Easy Scout. The thing is a decent coach scouts himself and breaks his tendencies.

As for the co-coordinators Clemson did it for years with Jeff Scott and Tony Elliott. 2 National Championships. Bozo the Clown could call plays for Deshaun Watson and Trevor Lawrence.

I don't think the problem is in-game play calling. I think the problem is building an effective passing attack based on the capabilities of our kids. Not an easy task.

 

[fourthandshort]

4th, all good. BUT, you say "take away Matt Brown . . . Tre Roberson . . . Jake Kolbe . . . " we are below average etc.

BUT Spack has been our coach for 13 years, and those guys count for 8 of 13 years of ISU football. He didn't recruit Brown, but he surely "let him loose" for 4 years and Matt could've got the hell out if he'd wanted to. Tre came here because of something to do with Spack - the OC, Spack, the rest of the team? Kolbe did what he did, he's in the top 5 of several records categories, no matter if they broke him or shuffled him off or whatever. I was not a Brady Davis fan, but he was brought in here as an FBS transfer, just never panned out and then got hurt.

So I'm just not quite as solid in declaring it a wasteland. Now, the OC issue, a problem. Have we ever had a deep QB "room"? No. Are we hurting right now? Yes.

But I've posted on this before, in the past, and it speaks to your issue about depth. Not just our 2-3 deep, but no guy we've had at QB who has left has ever excelled at QB any place else. We've had guys under Spack who've transferred out, but none has gone elsewhere and been a decent QB. Baltz still unknown. So whether it's Spack, the specific OC/OC's plural, the recruiting coordinator, talent evaluation, whatever, combo of all, at this point, and the last two/three years, we're in a tough spot. Gotta get it figgered out.

all good .. and agree Spack made it work with Matt Brown, but he was special physical talent and far mentally tougher than any QB Ive seen come thru here. But Spack was still getting decent established OCs at this point. We don't seem to get those anymore.

For me, it's not that I don't think Spack could he coach a strong QB successfully. I just don't think he can bring it all together consistently .. without outside help. And while he did surprise people by getting Kolbe, and he made it work in 2016 .. much of that credit goes to Beathard IMO ... Beathard groomed Kolbe for 2016 for 2 seasons prior to 2016, including spring 2016.

I happen to know some info on Dickens ... very prone to panic and way too intense/uptight. I think the OC pressure got to him with QB whisperer Beathard gone that summer. And unlike Beathard, I happen to know Dicken took it out on people below him incl Kolbe. I recall a couple Kolbe interviews, where Kolbe was inferring they were still struggling to get comfortable with each other. Spack-Dicken-Kolbe was doomed to fail, while I believe Spack-Beathard-Kolbe would have had much more success.

On that note, Matt Brown was much better at dealing with Spack's overbearing style.

Just my observations and opinions.

 

[StLRedbird]

Interesting. That's pretty much what you do when you break down opponents' film, chart tendencies, down and distance, etc. and build a game plan and call sheet. I used a program called Easy Scout. The thing is a decent coach scouts himself and breaks his tendencies.

As for the co-coordinators Clemson did it for years with Jeff Scott and Tony Elliott. 2 National Championships. Bozo the Clown could call plays for Deshaun Watson and Trevor Lawrence.

I don't think the problem is in-game play calling. I think the problem is building an effective passing attack based on the capabilities of our kids. Not an easy task.

So it's just like TR said. We're calling plays for the personnel we have. That doesn't imply good things about our offensive personnel.

 

[normalbird]

A major improvement in Jefferson’s game is his willingness to throw the ball out of bounds when necessary.

At the USD game, it seemed to me, whether on a designed run or when his targets were covered and he took off, he has a tendency to give it one too many jukes or hesitations. He is pretty quick and I would like to see him run with more confidence and outrun defenders instead of trying to finesse them.

 

[TIMMY]

So it's just like TR said. We're calling plays for the personnel we have. That doesn't imply good things about our offensive personnel.

Yeah but I think there are personnel groupings and plays we could run to stretch the field vertically. We'll see what Saturday brings.

 

[Bird Friend]

Interesting. That's pretty much what you do when you break down opponents' film, chart tendencies, down and distance, etc. and build a game plan and call sheet. I used a program called Easy Scout. The thing is a decent coach scouts himself and breaks his tendencies.

As for the co-coordinators Clemson did it for years with Jeff Scott and Tony Elliott. 2 National Championships. Bozo the Clown could call plays for Deshaun Watson and Trevor Lawrence.

I don't think the problem is in-game play calling. I think the problem is building an effective passing attack based on the capabilities of our kids. Not an easy task.

Yeah . . . but my app will do it on the fly; in game; based on current weather, field, and player conditions; and will include the coaches and officials current moods. I'll call it "Meta-Football" and sell all the personal information of everyone at the game and litter the edges of the screen with ads, fake news, and conspiracy theories.

 

[MadBird]

A major improvement in Jefferson’s game is his willingness to throw the ball out of bounds when necessary.

At the USD game, it seemed to me, whether on a designed run or when his targets were covered and he took off, he has a tendency to give it one too many jukes or hesitations. He is pretty quick and I would like to see him run with more confidence and outrun defenders instead of trying to finesse them.

Yes - watch some Tre Roberson tapes. Tuck it and run. Use the skills you've got!

 

[Total Red]

One more time up close

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