Redbird vs USD game thread

[MadBird]

Loved the comment about "watching the basketball team" - that was sort of what I was thinking, all of a sudden it was all uphill and nothing went right. That first half sideline pass that was intercepted, I chalk that up to the coaches - a terrible play call at that time. Asking Jefferson to do that, at that point in the game, I don't see it.

We've all talked positive about our D, and they had their moments, but as the announcers were saying, USD carved up the middle of the field passing, whatever the reason. After the terrible 5-7 minutes of short field and back to back to back, etc TO's, we held them pretty good. But by then the offense had frozen up.

I was hoping they'd have a Plan B at QB, or at least a wildcat package, but I spose you don't do wildcat with 3 freshman RB's. Gotta come up with a Plan B for crissakes. How can USD have 5 QB's, 2 or 3 freshman, to trot out there, and we've got nada??

I thought Pha'Leak Brown in particular looked pretty solid at RB. White not bad. Lampkin played a little, got one run for almost nothing? Nice to McCloyn get the TD.

 

[Oldgrizzly]

The turnovers were terrible, but, my question is what is wrong with the coaching? I'm looking at the receiving core that they are putting on the field and I'm seeing that there are better receivers on the bench. There are faster and more sure handed receivers languishing on the sidelines, one in particular got in the game on offense for ONE play, there was a penalty (not on him) and they took him out. He's THE fastest kid on the team and you mean to tell me these coaches would rather play those slow, heavy-footed, un-crisp route running receivers out there?? C'mon! Either those kids have parents that are boosters and they are putting financial pressure on the coaches or those coaches are HORRIBLE at evaluating talent!

PUT THE BEST PLAYERS ON THE FIELD AT EACH POSITION!!

THE KIDS HAVE TO STEP THEIR GAMES UP AND SO SHOULD THE COACHES!

 

[redbirdfan04]

The turnovers were terrible, but, my question is what is wrong with the coaching? I'm looking at the receiving core that they are putting on the field and I'm seeing that there are better receivers on the bench. There are faster and more sure handed receivers languishing on the sidelines, one in particular got in the game on offense for ONE play, there was a penalty (not on him) and they took him out. He's THE fastest kid on the team and you mean to tell me these coaches would rather play those slow, heavy-footed, un-crisp route running receivers out there?? C'mon! Either those kids have parents that are boosters and they are putting financial pressure on the coaches or those coaches are HORRIBLE at evaluating talent!

PUT THE BEST PLAYERS ON THE FIELD AT EACH POSITION!!

THE KIDS HAVE TO STEP THEIR GAMES UP AND SO SHOULD THE COACHES!

Sorry this is a pathetic post. The ISU coaching staff is not at fault for 7 turnovers. Sir this is not high school, parents have zero say in who plays. The boosters have zero say during a game who plays. This was a difficult loss. Your post is laughable, go away.

 

[redbirdfan04]

Hey message board did you guys hear Brock Spack has stopped playing the best player at every position.

 

[Virginia Redbird]

If you commit 7 turnovers you almost always lose that game. I think it was 5 turnovers on consecutive drives at one point all deep in Redbird territory. All by Jefferson. The game was simply handed to USD. Many will probably disagree with me but I thought they should have sat Jefferson for a few series when the turnovers became almost predictable. Not for the whole game but give him a chance to get himself together mentally. He played well to start the game but I don't think I have ever seen a consecutive series of turnovers by one player like that before. The defense played pretty well I thought. They have holes, particularly in the pass defense. They got the QB early but later on, he was skipping around defenders like they were two-year-olds. Some have commented that the defense got it back together later in the game but the USD offense had also changed to working the clock and trying to maintain the lead. They were playing much differently than they had been and that was a factor. If we are being honest, the Redbird offense was simply putrid for a large chunk of the game. Brown looked pretty good at RB. Jefferson threw a few nice deep balls but his accuracy was erratic. If I had to choose straight up I would take the USD (local boy freshman) right now over the Redbird QB. Only one game I know but just saying. It has been discussed on this forum endlessly...Spack's inability to find a solid starting QB and develop an offense is the Achilles heel of the Redbird football program. I see zero changes to that one game into this season. Let us hope that changes as the season progresses. BTW, coaches do not commit turnovers but the interceptions were bad decisions by Jefferson, particularly the last one. QB decisions like that are a direct result of coaching. The Co-Coordinators bear some responsibility.

 

[fourthandshort]

Wow, 7 TOs to 1 TO .. and we had very realistic chance to tie game on last play of game.

Most of those turnovers were on our first set of downs on our own 36, 36, 30, 26, and 40 yard lines in first 2 1/2 quarters. So not only did they score all 27 of their points off of those turnovers, but think about how many drives we missed opportunities to control the clock and score, or simply improve field position and then punt. We still outgained them 447 to 300, and again .. had a realistic chance of tying the game and forcing into OT at then end.

Bryce showed a lot of potential yesterday, but the day clearly just snowballed on him. Interestingly, the guy he reminds me the most of who we know is SDSU Taryn Christion. He was a top QB in FCS, had hall of fame career. But in playoffs against JMU ... he had an even worse game with 9 of their 10 TOs ... 6 picks, 3 fumbles. He finished 18-43 for 234 yards, 11 carries for -15 yards. USD is not JMU, and yesterday was inexcusable, but still .. Bryce shows the same dual threat skill set as Taryn Christion. The similarities are pretty clear IMO - a combination of ruggedness and finesse.

Difference is Bryce is completely unproven at this point. He is also inexperienced, so there is a lot we don't know about him, including both his upside and downside at this level. He has to protect the ball, but I saw a lot of upside in that debacle yesterday. Clearly, he has to protect the ball. Give USD some credit for sure, and we'll see how well they do this spring and next fall.

Spack must stick by Bryce Jefferson ... what we also learned yesterday is that he is a true dual threat with a lot of ability - that was just as clear as his carelessness with the ball. He played 3 games at then end of 2019 without showing this propensity to turn it over. Got to stick by this guy longer ... he has top level talent and toughness. He clearly just needs to take care of the ball .. yesterday may have been a fluke, but even if it wasn't .. Bryce has top level talent. Give him time to figure things out.

 

[fourthandshort]

Loved the comment about "watching the basketball team" - that was sort of what I was thinking, all of a sudden it was all uphill and nothing went right. That first half sideline pass that was intercepted, I chalk that up to the coaches - a terrible play call at that time. Asking Jefferson to do that, at that point in the game, I don't see it.

We've all talked positive about our D, and they had their moments, but as the announcers were saying, USD carved up the middle of the field passing, whatever the reason. After the terrible 5-7 minutes of short field and back to back to back, etc TO's, we held them pretty good. But by then the offense had frozen up.

I was hoping they'd have a Plan B at QB, or at least a wildcat package, but I spose you don't do wildcat with 3 freshman RB's. Gotta come up with a Plan B for crissakes. How can USD have 5 QB's, 2 or 3 freshman, to trot out there, and we've got nada??

I thought Pha'Leak Brown in particular looked pretty solid at RB. White not bad. Lampkin played a little, got one run for almost nothing? Nice to McCloyn get the TD.

Pha'leak looked pretty good, and want to see more of Nigel White.

But why on earth did we run Lampkin one time ?? Didn't that use up one of his 4 games in keeping his redshirt ? Our RBs are young and unproven, but we have plenty of options .. don't play the true FR unless you have to or he can definitely help you. We know nothing more about Lampkin after his 1 stupid run. Am I missing something here ?

As for QB Jefferson ... I'm sticking by him right now. His dual threat skill set is better than I thought. He just needs to settle down some. Maybe this level is too much for him making faster decisions in pocket and on the run, but he sure looked potent when he wasn't turning it over. This game snow balled on him ... Spack should stick with him. He reminds me a lot of Taryn Christion from SDSU.

This spring should be viewed as a developmental season for our very young offense. I think we need to let Jefferson develop. Eventually, the game should slow down for him as he gets more game experience leading this team .. he could be a very good one, if he learns to settle down. Last fall, he was simply a game manager who handed off to Robinson 40 times per game (excl NDSU). Now the offense is all his ... needs time.

 

[TIMMY]

Hey message board did you guys hear Brock Spack has stopped playing the best player at every position.

Sorry this is a pathetic post. The ISU coaching staff is not at fault for 7 turnovers. Sir this is not high school, parents have zero say in who plays. The boosters have zero say during a game who plays. This was a difficult loss. Your post is laughable, go away.

You called it. Pissed off, Daddy.

If a coach is any good parents have no say in high school either.

 

[Total Red]

Random thoughts before QB post.

That was actually one of the best football weather games I've been to. And to think it was in February. I was uncomfortable early on because I overdressed and got too hot! I threw my jacket off and felt a litte better. I actually got some sunburn on my forehead. Very strange.

Give LB'er Reid props for an outstanding performance. He looks like a "Gameday" player.

 

[redbirdfan04]

I think the hardest part is how dominant we were in every aspect except turnovers and scoreboard and that last one is really the only stat that matters.

 

[Total Red]

It was a bad day yesterday at QB but it wasn't all on Jefferson. He wasn't responsible for 5 turnovers on consecutive possessions. One was fumble by P. Brown. Another fumble by Jefferson was due to a breakdown in pass protection. As Isubu pointed out, a later INT was the result of the receiver falling down. All lot of it does fall on Jefferson but it was a team effort that led to 7 turnovers. That's players and coaches.

I'm going to disagree with fourth on Jefferson being a legit dual-threat QB. I'm just not seeing it. When he drops back to pass good things can happen and bad things can happen. I'm not convinced that the good outweighs the bad. Let's look at his career stats so far. 2019 plus 2021

Passing - 30 completions in 67 attempts 7 int's, 2 TD's

Rushing - 44 carries for 189 yards 4.3 average. Good rushing #'s for a QB. Terrible passing.

We won two road playoffs games and played the #1 team in the FCS close in Fargo with Jefferson attempting a limited # of passes. If we hold down the turnovers our defense will give a chance to win. Let's emphasize the positive. Jefferson is a really good runner. On the last INT he had room to run for a Ist down and then time to run at least one more play. Instead he chose to throw into coverage and got picked off. Anytime Jefferson has a quick decision between running or passing he should run. That's how I would coach him for now. If you have a wide open receiver then sure, you throw it. But if you have green in front of you - take it. Defensive coaches will take note of this and they will eventually coach their players to break off of coverage to come up and stop the run. When that happens you throw to the wide open receiver, but until then run when you have the chance. Play to your strengths, not your liabilities.

Fourth thinks Jefferson needs time to develop. This is his fourth year. Jefferson arrived in 2018 and redshirted. At the end of 2019 he started 3 games. In 2020 he practiced. In 2021 he was named the starter and he has spent the last month working with the 1st unit. He's not a rookie. If he's a consistent passer we should be seeing clearer signs of it by now. I know, Coach Spack warned that the passing game takes longer to develop.

OTHER TEAMS AREN'T WAITING - Carson Camp of USD is a true freshman. He was 20 for 35 with 2 TD's and 1 Int. He completed a lot of passes under pressure. Down in Carbondale QB Nic Baker was making his first ever start for SIU and he led SIU to a 38-14 upset of #1 NDSU. Baker was 17 for 23 with 1 TD and 0 ints.

Some have criticized the Spack era as being weak on recruiting and developing HS QBs. Reluctantly I am going to agree. We offered Camp but we didn't get him. Camp went to Normal West HS. Baker went to Rochester, a Springfield, IL suburb. He's listed at 5'9 so that means he's 5'8 without shoes. Baker was lightly recruited. We probably could have had him. I've been pushing for us to hire the Rochester HC as our Off-Coord for years. We might have had a package deal.

We'll keep trying to get the best QB's. We might have some good ones coming in. For now we need to win with Jefferson.
Did I mention that he's a very good runner?

 

[Bird Friend]

Honest question regarding Spack: Does his system create opportunities for QBs to excel?

 

[fourthandshort]

It was a bad day yesterday at QB but it wasn't all on Jefferson. He wasn't responsible for 5 turnovers on consecutive possessions. One was fumble by P. Brown. Another fumble by Jefferson was due to a breakdown in pass protection. As Isubu pointed out, a later INT was the result of the receiver falling down. All lot of it does fall on Jefferson but it was a team effort that led to 7 turnovers. That's players and coaches.

I'm going to disagree with fourth on Jefferson being a legit dual-threat QB. I'm just not seeing it. When he drops back to pass good things can happen and bad things can happen. I'm not convinced that the good outweighs the bad. Let's look at his career stats so far. 2019 plus 2021

Passing - 30 completions in 67 attempts 7 int's, 2 TD's

Rushing - 44 carries for 189 yards 4.3 average. Good rushing #'s for a QB. Terrible passing.

We won two road playoffs games and played the #1 team in the FCS close in Fargo with Jefferson attempting a limited # of passes. If we hold down the turnovers our defense will give a chance to win. Let's emphasize the positive. Jefferson is a really good runner. On the last INT he had room to run for a Ist down and then time to run at least one more play. Instead he chose to throw into coverage and got picked off. Anytime Jefferson has a quick decision between running or passing he should run. That's how I would coach him for now. If you have a wide open receiver then sure, you throw it. But if you have green in front of you - take it. Defensive coaches will take note of this and they will eventually coach their players to break off of coverage to come up and stop the run. When that happens you throw to the wide open receiver, but until then run when you have the chance. Play to your strengths, not your liabilities.

Fourth thinks Jefferson needs time to develop. This is his fourth year. Jefferson arrived in 2018 and redshirted. At the end of 2019 he started 3 games. In 2020 he practiced. In 2021 he was named the starter and he has spent the last month working with the 1st unit. He's not a rookie. If he's a consistent passer we should be seeing clearer signs of it by now. I know, Coach Spack warned that the passing game takes longer to develop.

OTHER TEAMS AREN'T WAITING - Carson Camp of USD is a true freshman. He was 20 for 35 with 2 TD's and 1 Int. He completed a lot of passes under pressure. Down in Carbondale QB Nic Baker was making his first ever start for SIU and he led SIU to a 38-14 upset of #1 NDSU. Baker was 17 for 23 with 1 TD and 0 ints.

Some have criticized the Spack era as being weak on recruiting and developing HS QBs. Reluctantly I am going to agree. We offered Camp but we didn't get him. Camp went to Normal West HS. Baker went to Rochester, a Springfield, IL suburb. He's listed at 5'9 so that means he's 5'8 without shoes. Baker was lightly recruited. We probably could have had him. I've been pushing for us to hire the Rochester HC as our Off-Coord for years. We might have had a package deal.

We'll keep trying to get the best QB's. We might have some good ones coming in. For now we need to win with Jefferson.
Did I mention that he's a very good runner?

Not disagreeing with your concerns or points, other than, I do think we need to give Jefferson some time to develop and I do think he has a high ceiling. Also, this is is 3rd season ... spring 2020 got shut down, summer was very limited, and not sure how much they did in fall 2920. If anything, all that disruption may have negated some potential for improvement ... who knows. That, and our program's track record for developing QBs is not good .. I have been singing that song a while now.

But agree, it may not work out, though the stats you cite are very limited. I just think he needs to develop and I do see a lot of Taryn Christion in him. As for the USD QB ... he needed 7 turnovers, 6 of which were on our own 26 to 40, to score 27 points. They looked weak when we had momentum, and had zero sustained drives. Their best drive was 52 yards for a FG .. the other 24 points all came off our turnovers on our end of field. We had 5 drives of 68 yards or longer, and Jefferson largely made that happen.

The 6 TOs was obviously a very bad day. But we need to give him some time to develop .. maybe it works out, maybe it doesn't. But it's not like we should be sure there is someone better waiting on wings .. our history says otherwise. Last years #2 behind Brady Davis is this years #4 with no Brady.

 

[MadBird]

Pha'leak looked pretty good, and want to see more of Nigel White.

But why on earth did we run Lampkin one time ?? Didn't that use up one of his 4 games in keeping his redshirt ? Our RBs are young and unproven, but we have plenty of options .. don't play the true FR unless you have to or he can definitely help you. We know nothing more about Lampkin after his 1 stupid run. Am I missing something here ?

As for QB Jefferson ... I'm sticking by him right now. His dual threat skill set is better than I thought. He just needs to settle down some. Maybe this level is too much for him making faster decisions in pocket and on the run, but he sure looked potent when he wasn't turning it over. This game snow balled on him ... Spack should stick with him. He reminds me a lot of Taryn Christion from SDSU.

This spring should be viewed as a developmental season for our very young offense. I think we need to let Jefferson develop. Eventually, the game should slow down for him as he gets more game experience leading this team .. he could be a very good one, if he learns to settle down. Last fall, he was simply a game manager who handed off to Robinson 40 times per game (excl NDSU). Now the offense is all his ... needs time.

Agree on the Lampkin thing, but - is the whole RS thing null this year? Due to Covid everyone gets another year?? Don't know the answer, just speculating/hoping.

Jefferson sure looked like he can throw the long one and throw with some accuracy. Posted earlier I chalk the one interception up to a bad play call when they asked him to throw across the field at the end of the first half. Tried to do too much it seems for the most part, especially in that bad middle stretch end of first half beginning of second. But for a while he did carry the football like a Gondola! Later tucked it in very nicely. But I tended to agree with Virginiabird's post, think it was him, that a short "time-out" might have helped him get his head together there during the bad stretch.

 

[Redbird15]

This is about as undisciplined team I’ve seen in many years. Why try to bring that kick out?

You are some what correct... players on the team who feel like they are deserving base on past accolades... those are brat types players who pout when games get tough and throw out the white flag !

 

[Redbird15]

Agree on the Lampkin thing, but - is the whole RS thing null this year? Due to Covid everyone gets another year?? Don't know the answer, just speculating/hoping.

Jefferson sure looked like he can throw the long one and throw with some accuracy. Posted earlier I chalk the one interception up to a bad play call when they asked him to throw across the field at the end of the first half. Tried to do too much it seems for the most part, especially in that bad middle stretch end of first half beginning of second. But for a while he did carry the football like a Gondola! Later tucked it in very nicely. But I tended to agree with Virginiabird's post, think it was him, that a short "time-out" might have helped him get his head together there during the bad stretch. Lampkin and Brown are similar type of RB’s . Brown has a little more maturity and is the better RB ! For the people who said next man up after proctor left..?? Imagine if we had Jeff yesterday he is more explosive back than any of the RB on roster and was actually bigger at 205 ! Bet there will be ? When he is on a FBS team Fall running his ass off ! Love JR but staff never really developed depth especially when team was winning games with JR.. should have had 3 rotation in the backfield then. Remember brown/white/ Tim did not have ten carries the entire 2018-19 season ! Was great to see ISU finally throw up a video of the present team members for promotion this week ! You would have thought JR was still with the team with all the Twitter post /promo’s ! Player development is the key... seems ISU does that on defense but not on offense at skill positions

 

[Redbird15]

Sorry this is a pathetic post. The ISU coaching staff is not at fault for 7 turnovers. Sir this is not high school, parents have zero say in who plays. The boosters have zero say during a game who plays. This was a difficult loss. Your post is laughable, go away.

I miss Jeff Proctor ! Would have been great to have him and brown ! Develop skill Players Depth is the key !

 

[redbirdfan04]

I miss Jeff Proctor ! Would have been great to have him and brown ! Develop skill Players Depth is the key !

The difference between our basketball and football teams right now, spack moves on from you if you cause issues with program, basketball players have done whatever they wanted and the programs are night and day. I agree we win if proctor is here but can't look back.

 

[redbirdfan04]

You are some what correct... players on the team who feel like they are deserving base on past accolades... those are brat types players who pout when games get tough and throw out the white flag !

Who did this yesterday?

 

[TIMMY]

Honest question regarding Spack: Does his system create opportunities for QBs to excel?

Realy good question. Here's my opinion. It's not his system. Coach is a defensive coach. That's "his" system. We've had a lot of coaches influence the offense over his tenure. Truth be told we've pretty much had a revolving door at the OC and they've tried to put in stuff to fit the talents of the QB's at the time. Beathard was really good at that. And we've had outstanding talent on offense. Coprich, Robinson, Roberson. Shit if you can't win with those guy's there's something wrong with you. But nothing we run says ISU trademark on it the way NDSU does. It's just a bunch of plays everyone runs. Again just my observation from afar.