Norfolk St- Horton Game

[stielowp]

Everyone acts to situations differently and very possible it was shocking to #6 if he heard what’s being alleged and that’s why there’s no response, just weird to me that he was trash talking and at times taunting the fans most of the game and then no response at all to something as bad as what’s been allegedly said. If it’s all true I would commend him for handling it like he did and letting the ref/coach handle it and not be violent in the face of hateful language, he’d be a better person than most in that situation

I am not sure if it was the same play or some other time, but there was a time in the game when #6 was in the huddle of coaches and one of the assistant's put his hand over his mouth (like you would a child). He also was needing restraint during the coaches scuffle by his coaches and teammates. He didn't look like a "better person" in those situations to me. I would have expected a similar reaction, if not worse, to a racial slur.

 

[leeno33]

The thing I doubt the most is that the ref heard it, and IIRC, Coach Jones said the AA ref heard it and would do something about it. The closest ref was a white one, and that's who Thomas went to. If any of the refs heard the racial slur, they automatically failed because none of them acted on it. It wasn't until Thomas talked to a ref that something happened. Maybe the closest ref was hoping it could just get swept under the rug? It just seems like either he didn't actually hear the fan say it, or he failed to act proactively.
I also have a hard time believing Thomas would have reacted so calmly based on his interactions with fans earlier and his actions/words to them after the game, but we do all react differently so it's probably not fair for me to assume how he would react in a situation like this.
I'm sure there is some misinformation against ISU out there, but this whole situation has been handled poorly on both sides. I think ISU handled it extremely poorly in the moment, but may be handling it properly now. I look forward to hearing their findings, but I'm not sure how much of the details will actually be released to the public. It always seems to be a very generic statement.
Assuming the alleged offense is true, I don't have any major issues with how NSU handled it in the moment aside from the players after the game. It would have been better if Coach Jones didn't start yelling aggressively (my perception) at Pedon, but you could say the same about Pedon to the refs. They both were reacting emotionally to an emotionally charged situation. Hard to fault people too much for that. However, I think Jones (and probably NSU administration as well) is handling it poorly. I get not wanting to pick up the phone, and I get that it's possible he's only calling because of the media attention. But you still need to pick up the phone to see if it is for truly remorseful reasons. This is the part that probably makes me the most upset. Jones talked about the strides the country has made in race relations (and also the setbacks), but you can't make strides if you stop communication. We can't come together, and we can't forgive each other if we stop communicating. We're all humans and we all make mistakes. If we expect people to forgive us, we need to also be willing to forgive others.

 

[DougSutton]

I am not trusting the comments by the coach based on what I observed. I was sitting behind the visitor bench across from the incident.

1. Foul is called on Davis for a reach (or block) on #6. Crowd erupted in boos from the ticky-tack foul.
2. #6 went directly toward fans on floor seats and interacted with them
3. Closest referee gathers with the NSU team and starts to talk to them. #6 gets defensive (but not angry) - more like a "what about them"
4. NSU Coach starts to move onto the Court to talk to the referee.
5. Pedon gets upset and starts yelling at referees and Coach
6. NSU Coach starts to return to his own bench, sees and hears Pedon and responds, then walks toward Pedon
7. Pedon and NSU Coach start yelling and chest bumping.
8. Referees and players work to break up coaches.
9. Review by the officials. Double Tech's assigned to coaches.

The reason why I don't believe a "racial slur" was said, is because of the reaction of the players #6 and Davis (who were the closest). Also, the referee doesn't react how I would believe he would, had he heard a racial slur. I would have expected a stronger reaction from players and referee if a racial slur was said. I also believe that Pedon had no knowledge of the accusation of a racial slur until after the game and before the press conference. I don't believe he knew the accusation until at earliest the meeting with the NSU Coach after the handshake line. I think at that time, is when Pedon may have found out.

I think this story has been embellished by NSU now that they have been getting some attention about it, and I believe they are taking advantage of it. ISU is in a bad situation regardless. If the investigation finds something different, then I will accept it, but until I hear differently, I can only go by what I saw.

I 100% agree that coach Pedon had no awareness of the accused racial slur until after the game and before the press conference. I understand the university attempting to give coach Pedon guidance on what to say and what not to say. At the same time, the constructive criticism that @Redbird222 gave has merit. We had a missed opportunity to show up better and coach Pedon has already acknowledged this. I've made plenty of mistakes in my life, especially when emotionally triggered and caught up in the heat of the moment.

As much as I want to believe nothing was said, if I'm given a choice to believe either a coach who is on the record saying he heard this directly from the ref or people with anonymous screen names that thus far have not been willing to disclose their names or the specific sources that validate this is not true, I'm choosing to give the benefit of the doubt to the coach.

It would be insane to me to think that he would make up a lie knowing full well that the ref would deny ever saying this. I have 100% trust that the administration is doing an investigation and they have already spoken with the refs and witnesses. I also trust they will transparently disclose what they discover. If the coach was proven to be lying and a racially charged comment wasn't made to the player, then I trust the university will make reference to this.

I hate a lot of the culture on online message boards with anonymous people or burner accounts making attacking statements and claims against people, including in this example those that are on the NSU side that are attacking our players and fans and ISU fans that are making bold claims as a matter of fact. I have higher standards of what I want to represent as an individual and also for our university. If you're going to go so far as to make a definitive claim about someone, at least have the courage to disclose your identity and anyone that has given you information to validate the claim. Not doing this makes you and us look weak and petty.

 

[Hamdonger]

I think it's somewhere in between. I'm sure Jones is taking this way further than what happened (at least with the fan). But I'm also pretty sure that the fan didn't say "Hey I hope you have a nice day".

Hey fans, quit interacting with opposing players. Nothing good is going to come out of it.

I remind you Quinn...that #6 was 'interacting' with the whole east side for the majority of the game. This NFS cat started it with HIS interactions. I was right there, close enough to blow a few kisses at him and #6 smiling in return. Does the same advice apply to him, and any player for that matter?

I'll give the guy his due. He played the PERFECT heel. It was actually marvelous.

 

[Hamdonger]

Maybe I'm off base, but I just would think that if the ref directly heard the comment from the fan, especially if it was as blatantly racially-charged as some of the allegations, the ref would have immediately gone over to either the fan or security and had that fan removed. In real time, it was a few minutes after the verbal engagement between Thomas and the fan before they were removed from courtside. And even then, they sat in the south bleachers for a couple minutes behind the bleachers, and later were standing on the upper concourse of the west bleachers watching for awhile. There didn't seem to be real urgency to removing them from the premises.

100% ding ding ding. This is THE most confusing aspect of this whole dilemma from the GET-GO, for me. The real time game action and the alleged slur just doesn't match up. This. Right. Here. EXCELLENT OBSERVATION.

 

[Hamdonger]

I 100% agree that coach Pedon had no awareness of the accused racial slur until after the game and before the press conference. I understand the university attempting to give coach Pedon guidance on what to say and what not to say. At the same time, the constructive criticism that @Redbird222 gave has merit. We had a missed opportunity to show up better and coach Pedon has already acknowledged this. I've made plenty of mistakes in my life, especially when emotionally triggered and caught up in the heat of the moment.

As much as I want to believe nothing was said, if I'm given a choice to believe either a coach who is on the record saying he heard this directly from the ref or people with anonymous screen names that thus far have not been willing to disclose their names or the specific sources that validate this is not true, I'm choosing to give the benefit of the doubt to the coach.

It would be insane to me to think that he would make up a lie knowing full well that the ref would deny ever saying this. I have 100% trust that the administration is doing an investigation and they have already spoken with the refs and witnesses. I also trust they will transparently disclose what they discover. If the coach was proven to be lying and a racially charged comment wasn't made to the player, then I trust the university will make reference to this.

I hate a lot of the culture on online message boards with anonymous people or burner accounts making attacking statements and claims against people, including in this example those that are on the NSU side that are attacking our players and fans and ISU fans that are making bold claims as a matter of fact. I have higher standards of what I want to represent as an individual and also for our university. If you're going to go so far as to make a definitive claim about someone, at least have the courage to disclose your identity and anyone that has given you information to validate the claim. Not doing this makes you and us look weak and petty.

Hi Dougers. I'm not sure anyone is saying that NFS Coach is making it up, at least from this angle: Clearly he was told second-hand...and went to defend his player(s). Which is understandable! (Doesn't mean I have to like him, though). The mystery here is...the slur. DID IT ACTUALLY HAPPEN??

PS. Btw, I read the quote, too, about NFS coach saying the ref told him. Did the ref HEAR IT DIRECTLY, or second hand? And I do have to ask...did the ref actually tell NFS coach, or did #6 tell NFS coach? I believe, for reasons I won't mention, that the ref told NFS coach via second-hand information.

 

[redbirds2000]

I 100% agree that coach Pedon had no awareness of the accused racial slur until after the game and before the press conference. I understand the university attempting to give coach Pedon guidance on what to say and what not to say. At the same time, the constructive criticism that @Redbird222 gave has merit. We had a missed opportunity to show up better and coach Pedon has already acknowledged this. I've made plenty of mistakes in my life, especially when emotionally triggered and caught up in the heat of the moment.

As much as I want to believe nothing was said, if I'm given a choice to believe either a coach who is on the record saying he heard this directly from the ref or people with anonymous screen names that thus far have not been willing to disclose their names or the specific sources that validate this is not true, I'm choosing to give the benefit of the doubt to the coach.

It would be insane to me to think that he would make up a lie knowing full well that the ref would deny ever saying this. I have 100% trust that the administration is doing an investigation and they have already spoken with the refs and witnesses. I also trust they will transparently disclose what they discover. If the coach was proven to be lying and a racially charged comment wasn't made to the player, then I trust the university will make reference to this.

I hate a lot of the culture on online message boards with anonymous people or burner accounts making attacking statements and claims against people, including in this example those that are on the NSU side that are attacking our players and fans and ISU fans that are making bold claims as a matter of fact. I have higher standards of what I want to represent as an individual and also for our university. If you're going to go so far as to make a definitive claim about someone, at least have the courage to disclose your identity and anyone that has given you information to validate the claim. Not doing this makes you and us look weak and petty.

Were you at the game? Do you personally know the 3 fans?

 

[redbirds2000]

I remind you Quinn...that #6 was 'interacting' with the whole east side for the majority of the game. This NFS cat started it with HIS interactions. I was right there, close enough to blow a few kisses at him and #6 smiling in return. Does the same advice apply to him, and any player for that matter?

I'll give the guy his due. He played the PERFECT heel. It was actually marvelous.

The bench, #6, most of team was interacting with the crowd before the game even started. The interactions actually reminded me of the Fab 5, Laettner, etc. in the 90s. Which was entertaining. #6 wouldn't have been talking if ISU could have stopped him. He plays with a chip on his shoulder, some attitude and he got under the skin of many people. He was entertaining. But stepped over the line with the accusations.

 

[Dmills]

I 100% agree that coach Pedon had no awareness of the accused racial slur until after the game and before the press conference. I understand the university attempting to give coach Pedon guidance on what to say and what not to say. At the same time, the constructive criticism that @Redbird222 gave has merit. We had a missed opportunity to show up better and coach Pedon has already acknowledged this. I've made plenty of mistakes in my life, especially when emotionally triggered and caught up in the heat of the moment.

As much as I want to believe nothing was said, if I'm given a choice to believe either a coach who is on the record saying he heard this directly from the ref or people with anonymous screen names that thus far have not been willing to disclose their names or the specific sources that validate this is not true, I'm choosing to give the benefit of the doubt to the coach.

It would be insane to me to think that he would make up a lie knowing full well that the ref would deny ever saying this. I have 100% trust that the administration is doing an investigation and they have already spoken with the refs and witnesses. I also trust they will transparently disclose what they discover. If the coach was proven to be lying and a racially charged comment wasn't made to the player, then I trust the university will make reference to this.

I hate a lot of the culture on online message boards with anonymous people or burner accounts making attacking statements and claims against people, including in this example those that are on the NSU side that are attacking our players and fans and ISU fans that are making bold claims as a matter of fact. I have higher standards of what I want to represent as an individual and also for our university. If you're going to go so far as to make a definitive claim about someone, at least have the courage to disclose your identity and anyone that has given you information to validate the claim. Not doing this makes you and us look weak and petty.

I appreciate your willingness to put your face and name to what you say. You are one of the more thoughtful posters on here and you make a lot of good posts. However, I think you're mistaken on this topic. I'll admit I'm not sure the scope of claims being made on this forum you are referring to here. However, expressing any level of doubt on this topic can be costly and at this point in the investigation, I wouldn't advocate for anyone exposing themselves to potential attacks (for the same reason the identity of the fan in question will not be exposed on this forum - who I do not know).

There is a lot of evidence contradicting the account of Coach Jones and at this point, he is the only person to my knowledge who has "testified" that a racial slur was said to his player. I would imagine this is part of the reason why the investigation is taking longer than it should. All information supporting the claim has come from him and him alone as far as I am aware. I'm not doubting that Thomas told Coach Jones that a racial slur was directed at him. Even if a slur wasn't said, it doesn't necessarily imply that Thomas is a liar either because as has been discussed at length on this board, it was difficult to hear in the Field House. What I'm saying is every claim about the situation has come from Coach Jones. No other person that I know of has said they heard the alleged slur and no one has publicly "testified" on behalf of someone who heard the alleged slur other than Jones (he basically said Thomas and the ref heard it and not a single person has been able to verify either of their accounts). Expressing doubt based off of a number of observations, contradicting eyewitness accounts, and recent contextual history is not at all unreasonable in this circumstance when considered in the aggregate.

At this point, it is clear Jones can say whatever he wants with limited or no repercussions. As a HC, you should care deeply about your players; however, you should not care only about your players. He has slandered our head coach and has created a national controversy, arguably interfering with ISU's investigation. As a witness, there's a big difference in testifying on a contained, relatively private matter and testifying on a matter that has been thrust into the national spotlight, complete with internet attacks on everyone associated with our program. All of this undermines the due process of the investigation. He has refused to let the investigation run its course.

There have been doxxing threats, threats to "return the favor" to our players, threats to show up to our coach's son's school, hail mary claims that the fan in question made a white power symbol, etc. There has even been harassment of our student section leader (who to my knowledge, hasn't even commented once on the incident) and racial targeting and harassment of our black athletes.

Coach Jones and NSU probably don't know of all of the above attacks, but they almost certainly know of many, especially considering how active Coach Jones is in his mentions. At a minimum, they know that tensions nationally (or at least in the east coast region) are boiling. Coach Jones has continued to raise the temperature with no regard for Illinois State University, our coaches, their families, our players, our fans, and any other innocent individuals caught in the crossfire.

All of these examples are based off of relatively limited research and obviously does not include private messages. Why in the world would anyone who expresses any level doubt want to put a face and name behind their comments? People who haven't even commented have been harassed. Consider this, if Coach Jones is wrong on this topic, what consequences will he face? If someone on this board goes public and has an opposing view and they are proven wrong by the investigation, what consequences will they face?

 

[redbirds2000]

I appreciate your willingness to put your face and name to what you say. You are one of the more thoughtful posters on here and you make a lot of good posts. However, I think you're mistaken on this topic. I'll admit I'm not sure the scope of claims being made on this forum you are referring to here. However, expressing any level of doubt on this topic can be costly and at this point in the investigation, I wouldn't advocate for anyone exposing themselves to potential attacks (for the same reason the identity of the fan in question will not be exposed on this forum - who I do not know).

There is a lot of evidence contradicting the account of Coach Jones and at this point, he is the only person to my knowledge who has "testified" that a racial slur was said to his player. I would imagine this is part of the reason why the investigation is taking longer than it should. All information supporting the claim has come from him and him alone as far as I am aware. I'm not doubting that Thomas told Coach Jones that a racial slur was directed at him. Even if a slur wasn't said, it doesn't necessarily imply that Thomas is a liar either because as has been discussed at length on this board, it was difficult to hear in the Field House. What I'm saying is every claim about the situation has come from Coach Jones. No other person that I know of has said they heard the alleged slur and no one has publicly "testified" on behalf of someone who heard the alleged slur other than Jones (he basically said Thomas and the ref heard it and not a single person has been able to verify either of their accounts). Expressing doubt based off of a number of observations, contradicting eyewitness accounts, and recent contextual history is not at all unreasonable in this circumstance when considered in the aggregate.

At this point, it is clear Jones can say whatever he wants with limited or no repercussions. As a HC, you should care deeply about your players; however, you should not care only about your players. He has slandered our head coach and has created a national controversy, arguably interfering with ISU's investigation. As a witness, there's a big difference in testifying on a contained, relatively private matter and testifying on a matter that has been thrust into the national spotlight, complete with internet attacks on everyone associated with our program. All of this undermines the due process of the investigation. He has refused to let the investigation run its course.

There have been doxxing threats, threats to "return the favor" to our players, threats to show up to our coach's son's school, hail mary claims that the fan in question made a white power symbol, etc. There has even been harassment of our student section leader (who to my knowledge, hasn't even commented once on the incident) and racial targeting and harassment of our black athletes.

Coach Jones and NSU probably don't know of all of the above attacks, but they almost certainly know of many, especially considering how active Coach Jones is in his mentions. At a minimum, they know that tensions nationally (or at least in the east coast region) are boiling. Coach Jones has continued to raise the temperature with no regard for Illinois State University, our coaches, their families, our players, our fans, and any other innocent individuals caught in the crossfire.

All of these examples are based off of relatively limited research and obviously does not include private messages. Why in the world would anyone who expresses any level doubt want to put a face and name behind their comments? People who haven't even commented have been harassed. Consider this, if Coach Jones is wrong on this topic, what consequences will he face? If someone on this board goes public and has an opposing view and they are proven wrong by the investigation, what consequences will they face?

Doug Sutton took a side without hearing from the accused, the fans surrounding the incident, the referee, or the closest ISU player. Bold!

 

[BirdGrad2011]

Jones lost credibility in my eyes when he bragged about refusing Pedon’s call then suddenly recalled some mysterious racist incident in 2011 that even he didn’t remember. His actions during the game when he was told I completely understand. His behavior and actions since? Nah. That’s not a leader.

 

[DougSutton]

Were you at the game? Do you personally know the 3 fans?

I was not. As I've mentioned multiple times, when given a choice between a coach (or any person) publicly naming an official that told him about a racially insensitive comment versus anonymous people that even though may have been at the game, didn't hear what the ref told the coach, I am choosing to take the coach's word for it unless or until it's proven to be a lie.

This is pretty simple in my mind and my sense is that if the identical situation was reversed and it was coach Pedon that went off on an opposing crowd because he said that an official told him that an opposing fan made, most if not all of the fans on this board would take coach Pedon's word for it unless or until someone proved he was lying. I do my best to be objective and fair in how I personally assess situations, regardless of if it is someone that is on "my team" or not.

I have heard things from private conversations but won't share any speculation until an official statement comes out from the university. I do have 100% trust in our leadership. This situation wasn't handled perfectly and many organizations and individuals make mistakes in the moment. The true test that I look for is how organizations and individuals respond to what they did or did not do. So far, I give Pedon massive respect for what he said the other night and feel for him. I look at situations like this as a tremendous opportunity for growth and earning respect.

 

[redbirds2000]

I was not. As I've mentioned multiple times, when given a choice between a coach (or any person) publicly naming an official that told him about a racially insensitive comment versus anonymous people that even though may have been at the game, didn't hear what the ref told the coach, I am choosing to take the coach's word for it unless or until it's proven to be a lie.

This is pretty simple in my mind and my sense is that if the identical situation was reversed and it was coach Pedon that went off on an opposing crowd because he said that an official told him that an opposing fan made, most if not all of the fans on this board would take coach Pedon's word for it unless or until someone proved he was lying. I do my best to be objective and fair in how I personally assess situations, regardless of if it is someone that is on "my team" or not.

I have heard things from private conversations but won't share any speculation until an official statement comes out from the university. I do have 100% trust in our leadership. This situation wasn't handled perfectly and many organizations and individuals make mistakes in the moment. The true test that I look for is how organizations and individuals respond to what they did or did not do. So far, I give Pedon massive respect for what he said the other night and feel for him. I look at situations like this as a tremendous opportunity for growth and earning respect.

Two yes or no questions and the reply is a two scroll, three paragraph answer that answered one question directly. You have taken a side. I was there. I know the 3 fans. And to say you 100% trust ANY leadership is a very dangerous statement. You don't know enough. Period.

 

[DougSutton]

I appreciate your willingness to put your face and name to what you say. You are one of the more thoughtful posters on here and you make a lot of good posts. However, I think you're mistaken on this topic. I'll admit I'm not sure the scope of claims being made on this forum you are referring to here. However, expressing any level of doubt on this topic can be costly and at this point in the investigation, I wouldn't advocate for anyone exposing themselves to potential attacks (for the same reason the identity of the fan in question will not be exposed on this forum - who I do not know).

There is a lot of evidence contradicting the account of Coach Jones and at this point, he is the only person to my knowledge who has "testified" that a racial slur was said to his player. I would imagine this is part of the reason why the investigation is taking longer than it should. All information supporting the claim has come from him and him alone as far as I am aware. I'm not doubting that Thomas told Coach Jones that a racial slur was directed at him. Even if a slur wasn't said, it doesn't necessarily imply that Thomas is a liar either because as has been discussed at length on this board, it was difficult to hear in the Field House. What I'm saying is every claim about the situation has come from Coach Jones. No other person that I know of has said they heard the alleged slur and no one has publicly "testified" on behalf of someone who heard the alleged slur other than Jones (he basically said Thomas and the ref heard it and not a single person has been able to verify either of their accounts). Expressing doubt based off of a number of observations, contradicting eyewitness accounts, and recent contextual history is not at all unreasonable in this circumstance when considered in the aggregate.

At this point, it is clear Jones can say whatever he wants with limited or no repercussions. As a HC, you should care deeply about your players; however, you should not care only about your players. He has slandered our head coach and has created a national controversy, arguably interfering with ISU's investigation. As a witness, there's a big difference in testifying on a contained, relatively private matter and testifying on a matter that has been thrust into the national spotlight, complete with internet attacks on everyone associated with our program. All of this undermines the due process of the investigation. He has refused to let the investigation run its course.

There have been doxxing threats, threats to "return the favor" to our players, threats to show up to our coach's son's school, hail mary claims that the fan in question made a white power symbol, etc. There has even been harassment of our student section leader (who to my knowledge, hasn't even commented once on the incident) and racial targeting and harassment of our black athletes.

Coach Jones and NSU probably don't know of all of the above attacks, but they almost certainly know of many, especially considering how active Coach Jones is in his mentions. At a minimum, they know that tensions nationally (or at least in the east coast region) are boiling. Coach Jones has continued to raise the temperature with no regard for Illinois State University, our coaches, their families, our players, our fans, and any other innocent individuals caught in the crossfire.

All of these examples are based off of relatively limited research and obviously does not include private messages. Why in the world would anyone who expresses any level doubt want to put a face and name behind their comments? People who haven't even commented have been harassed. Consider this, if Coach Jones is wrong on this topic, what consequences will he face? If someone on this board goes public and has an opposing view and they are proven wrong by the investigation, what consequences will they face?

Greatly appreciate many of your perspectives @Dmills. To me, there's a difference between having doubt and wanting to wait until the investigation is complete so someone can hear from all sides and making a statement as a matter of fact that coach Jones is lying. One example as I pointed out from one poster was "Because he is (lying). The kid made up that it happened, the coach is making up that the ref heard it". Again, if I'm given a choice to believe a coach (or any person) that goes on the record saying what they heard from an official while naming the officials, I cannot imagine that person would be lying because the official would immediately deny saying this.

IF it's proven he lied, I'd be the first to admit I was wrong but from my experience.

Regarding coach Jones' behavior and comments since the incident, I believe he has been completely wrong to contribute to inflaming people against coach Pedon and this is not the type of leadership I respect. He has added fuel to the outrage that some of their fans have and this is wrong.

I hope that at some point, coach Jones will reflect and see there is an opportunity to contribute to healing and reconciliation. I believe he was wrong to blame coach Pedon for his lack of acknowledging the situation or the way he felt on the night of the game while implying the only reason he reached out the following day was to do damage control after all of the social media views.

 

[DougSutton]

Two yes or no questions and the reply is a two scroll, three paragraph answer that answered one question directly. You have taken a side. I was there. I know the 3 fans. And to say you 100% trust ANY leadership is a very dangerous statement. You don't know enough. Period.

I haven't taken a side. I'm holding a perspective based on the facts that I do know (while choosing not to hold a perspective based on anything other than that). That perspective is choosing to take the coach's word for it regarding what the official told him, nothing more. That doesn't mean I believe the fans made racially insensitive comments but simply that the ref told the coach that. That's it.

I don't 100% trust ANY leadership, but I am choosing to trust the Illinois State University leadership, including Dr. Tarhule and the athletic department, that they will perform a thorough investigation including interviewing witnesses, the accused, officials and everyone involved and will transparently share their findings.

I could be proven wrong and maybe the Illinois State leadership will fail or come up short but yes, I am trusting them until proven otherwise.

 

[Birdfriend72]

Doug Sutton took a side without hearing from the accused, the fans surrounding the incident, the referee, or the closest ISU player. Bold!

Where are they? Kind of hard to hear from them...when they are invisible. If #6 accused me of making those comments and I know I didn't do it. I would be saying I didn't do it. I would be saying it publically! He may be lying, but He is the only one talking.

 

[SgtHulka]

I thought they backed out because of the Collins connection. I could have completely made that up in my mind too!

Pretty sure they backed out so they could play Chicago State

 

[Hamdonger]

Pretty sure they backed out so they could play Chicago State

Holy freakin shhhh...cow. Uggggghhh.

 

[DougSutton]

Where are they? Kind of hard to hear from them...when they are invisible. If #6 accused me of making those comments and I know I didn't do it. I would be saying I didn't do it. I would be saying it publically! He may be lying, but He is the only one talking.

 

[redbirds2000]

Where are they? Kind of hard to hear from them...when they are invisible. If #6 accused me of making those comments and I know I didn't do it. I would be saying I didn't do it. I would be saying it publically! He may be lying, but He is the only one talking.

Where are they? Kind of hard to hear from them...when they are invisible. If #6 accused me of making those comments and I know I didn't do it. I would be saying I didn't do it. I would be saying it publically! He may be lying, but He is the only one talking.

#6 is talking? He is publically repeating what he said to the referee and coach? I apologized I missed that. I'm sure I could find it, but please link it. You would be publically saying you didn't do it? I would suggest re-evaluating your legal representation if they allowed you to speak publically in a situation like this.