MVC Game 9

[ChiRedbirdfan]

IMO, we do NOT have either. Look at the roster from 4 on down. I contend that would be among the weakest 4-13 players in NCAA tournament history. I really like our top 3. But, ISU would be at a huge deficit at the remaining roster spots as currently performing. All ISU has on their side is time. If a couple guys develop in the next month, then maybe there would be cause for hope. The Drake and INSU beat downs have me questioning our likelihood of even playing on Saturday at Arch Madness.

I disagree. Our roster, from top to bottom is not nearly as bad as some see it. We have arguably 3 of the top 5 or at least 3 of the top 10 players in the conference in our starting lineup. N'Diaye is solid, and as he plays more games and gets more comfortable, he becomes a quality big man. We have enough players to play roles to fill in other roster spots. Unfortunately, our team doesn't buy in on defense for the most part and we don't seem to gel as a team like we did last year. Just my opinion though.

We have 1/2 of guard with Evan's injury. Beyond that it is hard to name a guard that can make plays offensively? or defensively? or in transition?

MW can make some defensive plays as can WT. Other than that we do not have guards that can make plays. Gassman can sit outside and hit the shot if he is open but there are not enough open shots to be had. At best we are hoping our guards don't make mistakes vs making actual plays.

 

[ISU FAN 1]

IMO, we do NOT have either. Look at the roster from 4 on down. I contend that would be among the weakest 4-13 players in NCAA tournament history. I really like our top 3. But, ISU would be at a huge deficit at the remaining roster spots as currently performing. All ISU has on their side is time. If a couple guys develop in the next month, then maybe there would be cause for hope. The Drake and INSU beat downs have me questioning our likelihood of even playing on Saturday at Arch Madness.

I disagree. Our roster, from top to bottom is not nearly as bad as some see it. We have arguably 3 of the top 5 or at least 3 of the top 10 players in the conference in our starting lineup. N'Diaye is solid, and as he plays more games and gets more comfortable, he becomes a quality big man. We have enough players to play roles to fill in other roster spots. Unfortunately, our team doesn't buy in on defense for the most part and we don't seem to gel as a team like we did last year. Just my opinion though.

If we really have 3 of the top MVC 10, and other solid contributors, I just don't feel we would be 4-4, and getting waxed by a 9-10 INSU with our most full strength roster on the year. We are what our record says we are ... mediocre. There's buy in, and there's ability. We were clearly more skilled to play the kind of defense Dan wants last year. Not pick on Hein, but he's playing PLee type minutes, and struggles to stay in front of people. And he's one of Dan's try hard guys. The buy in is there, but Dan is not getting the same skill set out of those try hard minutes. And, when guards blow by to the bucket, the required help defense puts the interior at a disadvantage.

 

[DWRedbird]

IMO, we do NOT have either. Look at the roster from 4 on down. I contend that would be among the weakest 4-13 players in NCAA tournament history. I really like our top 3. But, ISU would be at a huge deficit at the remaining roster spots as currently performing. All ISU has on their side is time. If a couple guys develop in the next month, then maybe there would be cause for hope. The Drake and INSU beat downs have me questioning our likelihood of even playing on Saturday at Arch Madness.

I disagree. Our roster, from top to bottom is not nearly as bad as some see it. We have arguably 3 of the top 5 or at least 3 of the top 10 players in the conference in our starting lineup. N'Diaye is solid, and as he plays more games and gets more comfortable, he becomes a quality big man. We have enough players to play roles to fill in other roster spots. Unfortunately, our team doesn't buy in on defense for the most part and we don't seem to gel as a team like we did last year. Just my opinion though.

We have 1/2 of guard with Evan's injury. Beyond that please name a guard that can make plays offensively? or defensively? or in transition?

MW can make some defensive plays as can WT. Other than that we do not have guards that can make plays. Gassman can sit outside and hit the shot if he is open but there are not enough open shots to be had. At best we are hoping our guards don't make mistakes vs making actual plays.

I don't count injuries when I say that. They can happen to anyone, and technically it doesn't take away from Evan's overall talent. I think it adds to his toughness that he is willing to play through his injuries.

I'm also not sure what you mean by "make plays". I'm not trying to be a dick, but it is such a general statement that it could literally mean anything. Hein and Gassman have both "made plays" this year. Hell, Hein's "made plays" have actually won us a game. If you mean that we don't have a guard that can run the offense, then yes, I will agree with you, we don't have a guard that can run an offense right now (I think Clarence will get there with experience). That said, we don't run an offense that needs a point guard to run it (for what it's worth I hate our offense) at the moment honestly. Once we get into the half court, having a PG becomes irrelevant with the offense that we run.

Transitionally I think we are fine from a guard perspective. Our forwards and bigger wings could put some wind in their sails though...

As to your bolded statement, in my opinion, this could be said about anyone on our roster. While I think he is one of the most talented players in the league, there are times when I cringe when MY gets the ball because he is just as likely to turn it over as he is to score/make an amazing pass.

Defensively, either Yak was the only one who taught it, or our team isn't buying in as a whole. None of our guys play defense with their feet, save for maybe Boogie, though I don't count Boogie as a guard (but this gets into a whole other discussion on wing (small) forwards vs guards). Half our team doesn't hustle down the floor to get back on defense, which can leave us exposed, or guys are out of position, or over rotate in a zone. In my opinion, our guys play defense like players trying to make big plays, not a team trying to stop another team from scoring, just my opinion though.

We have talent on this roster, but in my opinion we aren't buying into the team, either offensively or defensively. I mean, look at Drake. Officially they were picked to finish dead last in our league and are currently tied for first. Is this because they have a cache of talent that everyone associated with the league overlooked?

 

[SgtHulka]

I disagree. Our roster, from top to bottom is not nearly as bad as some see it. We have arguably 3 of the top 5 or at least 3 of the top 10 players in the conference in our starting lineup. N'Diaye is solid, and as he plays more games and gets more comfortable, he becomes a quality big man. We have enough players to play roles to fill in other roster spots. Unfortunately, our team doesn't buy in on defense for the most part and we don't seem to gel as a team like we did last year. Just my opinion though.

We have 1/2 of guard with Evan's injury. Beyond that please name a guard that can make plays offensively? or defensively? or in transition?

MW can make some defensive plays as can WT. Other than that we do not have guards that can make plays. Gassman can sit outside and hit the shot if he is open but there are not enough open shots to be had. At best we are hoping our guards don't make mistakes vs making actual plays.

I don't count injuries when I say that. They can happen to anyone, and technically it doesn't take away from Evan's overall talent. I think it adds to his toughness that he is willing to play through his injuries.

I'm also not sure what you mean by "make plays". I'm not trying to be a dick, but it is such a general statement that it could literally mean anything. Hein and Gassman have both "made plays" this year. Hell, Hein's "made plays" have actually won us a game. If you mean that we don't have a guard that can run the offense, then yes, I will agree with you, we don't have a guard that can run an offense right now (I think Clarence will get there with experience). That said, we don't run an offense that needs a point guard to run it (for what it's worth I hate our offense) at the moment honestly. Once we get into the half court, having a PG becomes irrelevant with the offense that we run.

Transitionally I think we are fine from a guard perspective. Our forwards and bigger wings could put some wind in their sails though...

As to your bolded statement, in my opinion, this could be said about anyone on our roster. While I think he is one of the most talented players in the league, there are times when I cringe when MY gets the ball because he is just as likely to turn it over as he is to score/make an amazing pass.

Defensively, either Yak was the only one who taught it, or our team isn't buying in as a whole. None of our guys play defense with their feet, save for maybe Boogie, though I don't count Boogie as a guard (but this gets into a whole other discussion on wing (small) forwards vs guards). Half our team doesn't hustle down the floor to get back on defense, which can leave us exposed, or guys are out of position, or over rotate in a zone. In my opinion, our guys play defense like players trying to make big plays, not a team trying to stop another team from scoring, just my opinion though.

We have talent on this roster, but in my opinion we aren't buying into the team, either offensively or defensively. I mean, look at Drake. Officially they were picked to finish dead last in our league and are currently tied for first. Is this because they have a cache of talent that everyone associated with the league overlooked?

:text-+1:

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

I disagree. Our roster, from top to bottom is not nearly as bad as some see it. We have arguably 3 of the top 5 or at least 3 of the top 10 players in the conference in our starting lineup. N'Diaye is solid, and as he plays more games and gets more comfortable, he becomes a quality big man. We have enough players to play roles to fill in other roster spots. Unfortunately, our team doesn't buy in on defense for the most part and we don't seem to gel as a team like we did last year. Just my opinion though.

We have 1/2 of guard with Evan's injury. Beyond that please name a guard that can make plays offensively? or defensively? or in transition?

MW can make some defensive plays as can WT. Other than that we do not have guards that can make plays. Gassman can sit outside and hit the shot if he is open but there are not enough open shots to be had. At best we are hoping our guards don't make mistakes vs making actual plays.

I don't count injuries when I say that. They can happen to anyone, and technically it doesn't take away from Evan's overall talent. I think it adds to his toughness that he is willing to play through his injuries.

I'm also not sure what you mean by "make plays". I'm not trying to be a dick, but it is such a general statement that it could literally mean anything. Hein and Gassman have both "made plays" this year. Hell, Hein's "made plays" have actually won us a game. If you mean that we don't have a guard that can run the offense, then yes, I will agree with you, we don't have a guard that can run an offense right now (I think Clarence will get there with experience). That said, we don't run an offense that needs a point guard to run it (for what it's worth I hate our offense) at the moment honestly. Once we get into the half court, having a PG becomes irrelevant with the offense that we run.

Transitionally I think we are fine from a guard perspective. Our forwards and bigger wings could put some wind in their sails though...

As to your bolded statement, in my opinion, this could be said about anyone on our roster. While I think he is one of the most talented players in the league, there are times when I cringe when MY gets the ball because he is just as likely to turn it over as he is to score/make an amazing pass.

Defensively, either Yak was the only one who taught it, or our team isn't buying in as a whole. None of our guys play defense with their feet, save for maybe Boogie, though I don't count Boogie as a guard (but this gets into a whole other discussion on wing (small) forwards vs guards). Half our team doesn't hustle down the floor to get back on defense, which can leave us exposed, or guys are out of position, or over rotate in a zone. In my opinion, our guys play defense like players trying to make big plays, not a team trying to stop another team from scoring, just my opinion though.

We have talent on this roster, but in my opinion we aren't buying into the team, either offensively or defensively. I mean, look at Drake. Officially they were picked to finish dead last in our league and are currently tied for first. Is this because they have a cache of talent that everyone associated with the league overlooked?

A player that "makes plays" is generic term I have heard used commonly among coaches (high school coaches including Fenwick, Whitney Young, St Joe's Westchester, Bogan, simeon, Evanston, St Rita, St Pat's as well as several assistant college coaches) to describe players that can make things happen or create a "play". Btw a play in this context can be anything "meaningful" such as drawing a foul, getting to the basket, creating own shot, blocking a shot, shutting down defender, ripping down a rebound..etc. And we are talking about players that do this fairly regularly and not just once in awhile. Milik is an extreme example in that nearly every time he touches the ball we are often expecting something to happen..he will put the ball on the court and drive towards the basket, possible kick it out to an open players, pull up and shoot, draw a foul, get to the basket, and yes too often he may also make a bad play...bad pass, forced shot...etc. Same on the defensive end...Milik can cut off a defender, force a turnover, make an excellent block, and go up and rip down a rebound....etc Again he is he extreme as an example of a player that can "make plays". We have too many players that rely on others to make a "play first" in order for them to contribute...ie they touch the ball and may even dribble it but nothing material usually happens unless they are wide open offensively to receive a pass and shoot it.

IMO, right now the defensive end is where we need plays made as other team's guards seem to be having their way with us. The struggle for ISU is that we can bring in a better defender type like WT but we suffer offensively. Conversely we bring in a better offensive player that offers something like Gassman as a shooter and we suffer defensively and rebounding wise.

 

[jturner38]

INSU is better than the record indicates.

 

[IHateWSU]

INSU is better than the record indicates.

Indy St hit a rough stretch in late Nov/early Dec like we are in now. Hopefully we can turn it around also.

 

[Redbird28]

Just a quick heads up because I was curious.

WT last 5 games: He is 10/22 from the floor and 6/14 from three. That's 45% FG and 43% 3P FG respectively.

In other words, WT's offense is starting to show signs of improvement, especially considering he has now attacked the rim a handful of times the past 2 games.

I know these numbers don't fit the narrative of how poor his season stats look, but the proof is in the box score.

For comparison here are the other typical discussion point player's last 5 games.

MH : 9/26 from the floor, 6/16 from 3. That's 35% FG / 38% 3P FG
IG: 9/16 from the floor, 5/10 from 3. That's 56% FG / 50% 3P FG

While MH's numbers aren't good, the real problem no one is talking about is Madison.

MW last 5 played: 5/28 from the floor, 4/20 from 3. That's 18% FG / 20% 3P FG. That's putrid for a guy that's 5th on the team in mpg and 5th on the team in total minutes played, despite missing 2 games.

 

[isuquinndog]

You mean a freshman can actually...*gulp*... improve during the season?!

 

[ChiRedbirdfan]

Just a quick heads up because I was curious.

WT last 5 games: He is 10/22 from the floor and 6/14 from three. That's 45% FG and 43% 3P FG respectively.

In other words, WT's offense is starting to show signs of improvement, especially considering he has now attacked the rim a handful of times the past 2 games.

I know these numbers don't fit the narrative of how poor his season stats look, but the proof is in the box score.

For comparison here are the other typical discussion point player's last 5 games.

MH : 9/26 from the floor, 6/16 from 3. That's 35% FG / 38% 3P FG
IG: 9/16 from the floor, 5/10 from 3. That's 56% FG / 50% 3P FG

While MH's numbers aren't good, the real problem no one is talking about is Madison.

MW last 5 played: 5/28 from the floor, 4/20 from 3. That's 18% FG / 20% 3P FG. That's putrid for a guy that's 5th on the team in mpg and 5th on the team in total minutes played, despite missing 2 games.

I do agree WT has been improving. If he can continue to play like he has recently and NJ (needed those initials a long time ago) steps up big time then ISU can compete. It will still be a stretch as we have no bench strength. Otherwise I just do not see anything of substance happening this season...ie maybe one and done at best in STL.