MVC Expansion

[Adunk33]

So interesting thing from that article linked above from CBS Sports:

So mystery teams?

Also this:

At least we are staying with a balanced schedule, hopefully. Though with 12 teams, I'd expect a 22 game slate (11 teams twice each).

Murray and Belmont joining the league requires the league to go to 20 games and follow suit of some of the P5s. One of the underlying reasons being that it seems about 70% of the conference has one of these teams on their noncon schedules.

I'd be curious to who else the league is talking to that hasn't been discussed publicly. NKU, maybe? Oakland? Who knows.

I say get to 12 and leave it there. I'd like it to be UIC but don't really care who the 12th is. I am THRILLED it is not UTA. Murray was my MUST add. I've talked about it before but I love what having 12 teams does to Arch Madness weekend. Full day of basketball on Thursday as opposed to the two evening games and the top 4 seeds get a bye to Friday.

The July timeline makes sense because sports are at a bit of a dead period and those that are in-session are gearing up for fall versus playing games.

 

[ISU86]

UTA sure moved on quickly They jumped in bed with a new conference quicker than a drunk sorority girl Makes me glad we passed on them. I would still like to see the MVC go to 16 teams

Not surprising at all. They just want to make sure they have a place to land come next season and not be left behind complete ala Chicago State (independent). They may also be like Sam Houston State is currently in the WAC, leveraging the conference for a year or two and bolt to the next perceived prettier girl.

My thought is UIC will be announced by the end of the month as number twelve. This stabilizes everything within the regional foothold. I also think UMKC and UTA are still in-play, but only after UIC is finalized (when maybe a flyer or two based on market size can afford to be taken (and the conference is not in a "have-to" mode)). Not convinced they ultimately deliver all that is hoped (i.e. Big Ten and Rutgers), but that is another discussion entirely (i.e. does it really matter if you have a presence in a market if that market is either unaware or does not care).

 

[Aggie]

Not surprising at all. They just want to make sure they have a place to land come next season and not be left behind complete ala Chicago State (independent). They may also be like Sam Houston State is currently in the WAC, leveraging the conference for a year or two and bolt to the next perceived prettier girl.

My thought is UIC will be announced by the end of the month as number twelve. This stabilizes everything within the regional foothold. I also think UMKC and UTA are still in-play, but only after UIC is finalized (when maybe a flyer or two based on market size can afford to be taken (and the conference is not in a "have-to" mode)). Not convinced they ultimately deliver all that is hoped (i.e. Big Ten and Rutgers), but that is another discussion entirely (i.e. does it really matter if you have a presence in a market if that market is either unaware or does not care).

Exactly correct in my humble opinion, Texas is a huge place, in a way it’s own country(small c), but it is dominated by several large players. Yes, if you are in Lubbock then tech rules, but how big a recognition does UTA have?
Really like the Murray addition and probably for TV etc. UIC makes the most sense. I do still think the Dakotas hold promise. Lots of money has flowed into those schools in the past few years and even though population is not large, they are not losing population at anything near the rate downstate Illinois is.

 

[Bird Friend]

Not surprising at all. They just want to make sure they have a place to land come next season and not be left behind complete ala Chicago State (independent). They may also be like Sam Houston State is currently in the WAC, leveraging the conference for a year or two and bolt to the next perceived prettier girl.

My thought is UIC will be announced by the end of the month as number twelve. This stabilizes everything within the regional foothold. I also think UMKC and UTA are still in-play, but only after UIC is finalized (when maybe a flyer or two based on market size can afford to be taken (and the conference is not in a "have-to" mode)). Not convinced they ultimately deliver all that is hoped (i.e. Big Ten and Rutgers), but that is another discussion entirely (i.e. does it really matter if you have a presence in a market if that market is either unaware or does not care).

Frankly, does any market truly care about mid-major teams anymore? Did Chicago really care about Loyola outside of their graduates? Do they even care about DePaul? My guess is Chicago cares about Illinois, Norte Dame, Purdue, and Wisconsin. I doubt they even care about Northwestern, unless the football team is good enough for the Rose Bowl. More people in Chicago want to see Duke and UNC than a Valley team.

KC is a fantastic city, but they only care about the Tigers and Jayhawks (and I wonder if they’re losing interest in the Tigers). UMMC would be a useless addition. Arlington only cares about the Longhorns, A&M, Tech, and high school football. Omaha cares about the Huskers, and a small but fervent contingent cares about the Blue Jays.

Long way of saying, imo, market doesn’t really matter now, not like it used to.

 

[TBS_20]

Frankly, does any market truly care about mid-major teams anymore? Did Chicago really care about Loyola outside of their graduates? Do they even care about DePaul? My guess is Chicago cares about Illinois, Norte Dame, Purdue, and Wisconsin. I doubt they even care about Northwestern, unless the football team is good enough for the Rose Bowl. More people in Chicago want to see Duke and UNC than a Valley team.

KC is a fantastic city, but they only care about the Tigers and Jayhawks (and I wonder if they’re losing interest in the Tigers). UMMC would be a useless addition. Arlington only cares about the Longhorns, A&M, Tech, and high school football. Omaha cares about the Huskers, and a small but fervent contingent cares about the Blue Jays.

Long way of saying, imo, market doesn’t really matter now, not like it used to.

Well, they do. That is why the AAC grabbed all market teams. Charlotte, Dallas, San Antonio, Houston, Miami, and to a lesser extent, Birmingham. But, football is huge in Alabama. Why did they do that? Because the TV people told them they'd get a bigger contract. UTA and UIC would help the next TV contract

 

[MadBird]

Frankly, does any market truly care about mid-major teams anymore? Did Chicago really care about Loyola outside of their graduates? Do they even care about DePaul? My guess is Chicago cares about Illinois, Norte Dame, Purdue, and Wisconsin. I doubt they even care about Northwestern, unless the football team is good enough for the Rose Bowl. More people in Chicago want to see Duke and UNC than a Valley team.

KC is a fantastic city, but they only care about the Tigers and Jayhawks (and I wonder if they’re losing interest in the Tigers). UMMC would be a useless addition. Arlington only cares about the Longhorns, A&M, Tech, and high school football. Omaha cares about the Huskers, and a small but fervent contingent cares about the Blue Jays.

Long way of saying, imo, market doesn’t really matter now, not like it used to.

Great post Bird Friend, thought provoking. Will throw some of mine out, not necessarily well organized.

Does Chicago care about Loyola? Well, first, there's Chicago, and then there's Chicago. And that's where I see a lot of this breaking down.

There's the thousands and thousands of Loyola graduates/alums and even current students at Loyola, and in lots of cases their families, and they care about Loyola, I bet, some of them only in good times, but plenty in let's call them "regular" times. But then there's the Chicago media, both print and broadcast, and I don't think they really care about Loyola unless it's really really good times, like for a few weeks in March, if you know what I mean. When Sister Jean can be trotted out for a spot on the news, when local homey Porter Moser can be trotted out, etc. I read the Tribune every day, and you don't find many stories in the paper about "tonight's Loyola game vs Northern Iowa", the lineup, the local story, etc. They just don't cover that stuff anymore. I don't get to watch the Chicago TV stations all that much, but I suspect the same there. Nothing much until March, if it matters.

So, there are thousands and thousands of UMKC grads and alums and students who care about the Roos, but is the media gonna cover UMKC vs. ISU tonight, starting lineups, results tomorrow with box score, etc.? Prolly not.

Now, is the media gonna care more if Loyola is playing Old State U. rather than Belmont? I'd say, sure, the chances of coverage with a local team vs. a small private school from down south is greater. Likewise, if UMKC is taking on Missouri State, I'd bet there'd be a better chance for something, anything, than if Valpo was in town.

But I'd also bet that when they take the MVC TV package (or MVFC for that matter) out for bid, you'd stand to make more dough with Chicago and KC in the mix, than with Murray KY or Evansville, etc. For THAT, yes, market would still matter, I'd guess (I could be wrong). How many more dollars you'd be able to wring out, I'd have no idea.

Edit: I see TBS popped in ahead of me with similar thoughts.

 

[isuquinndog]

And remember, it's the university presidents decision. This is more than an athletics decision. As much as we all want it to be simply about basketball, etc it's not. It's much more than that.

 

[jwa123]

Well, they do. That is why the AAC grabbed all market teams. Charlotte, Dallas, San Antonio, Houston, Miami, and to a lesser extent, Birmingham. But, football is huge in Alabama. Why did they do that? Because the TV people told them they'd get a bigger contract. UTA and UIC would help the next TV contract

The Sunbelt ignored markets and went for the best football programs they could get. You may have a point about TV dollars as that is something I am ignorant about. I will say this, though, the Sunbelt is a stronger conference than they were 10 years ago.

 

[ISU86]

The Sunbelt ignored markets and went for the best football programs they could get. You may have a point about TV dollars as that is something I am ignorant about. I will say this, though, the Sunbelt is a stronger conference than they were 10 years ago.

Different dynamic. In football (after the AAC poach), it was a battle of the CUSA/MAC/SBC scraps (much smaller pool to choose from). There were hardly any FBS "markets" remaining (Florida Atlantic/International near Miami, Georgia State in Atlanta, Middle Tennessee State near Nashville).

Before AAC came in, CUSA was arguably the better conference.

CUSA vs SBC wasn't about relevance, more about survival. SBC moved first and was (somewhat surprisingly) successful grabbing CUSA "best of the rest" versus other way around (I still like the top part of the remaining CUSA but they lost their depth). Even more surprised Middle Tennessee State and Western Kentucky did not move to MAC.

 

[Bird Friend]

Well, they do. That is why the AAC grabbed all market teams. Charlotte, Dallas, San Antonio, Houston, Miami, and to a lesser extent, Birmingham. But, football is huge in Alabama. Why did they do that? Because the TV people told them they'd get a bigger contract. UTA and UIC would help the next TV contract

Will they get a better contract? Personally, I have my doubts. IMO, good TV contracts are going to the conferences that have teams people want to see, not conferences that have the big markets covered but teams only graduates care about.

 

[TIMMY]

Plenty of good seats available for Loyola Saturday vs Bradley and Tuesday vs Valpo. A true testament to how much a city of 2.7 million (9.5 million metro) cares about Loyola basketball.

 

[Adunk33]

Murray State University Joins The Missouri Valley Conference

The Murray State Racers become the 11th member of the MVC beginning July 1, 2022.

mvc-sports.com

Its official. So glad they got this one right. ICYMI Murray State also applying for MVFC membership for the 2023 season.

 

[ISUBird]

Murray and Belmont joining the league requires the league to go to 20 games and follow suit of some of the P5s. One of the underlying reasons being that it seems about 70% of the conference has one of these teams on their noncon schedules.

I'd be curious to who else the league is talking to that hasn't been discussed publicly. NKU, maybe? Oakland? Who knows.

I say get to 12 and leave it there. I'd like it to be UIC but don't really care who the 12th is. I am THRILLED it is not UTA. Murray was my MUST add. I've talked about it before but I love what having 12 teams does to Arch Madness weekend. Full day of basketball on Thursday as opposed to the two evening games and the top 4 seeds get a bye to Friday.

The July timeline makes sense because sports are at a bit of a dead period and those that are in-session are gearing up for fall versus playing games.

Per Matt Brown NKU and Milwaukee were unwilling to make a financial commitment and UTA didn't want to pay the entrance fee.

 

[Jeppson4ever]

Murray was a no brainer. Good program and they will put fannies in seats in STL, Nashville, Carbondale, and Evansville.

UIC also makes a lot of sense even though they haven’t earned the invite but neither did Loyola. Every school stands to benefit by playing an annual conference game in Chicago at a location way more accessible than Rogers Park, whether you are coming from most suburbs, your downtown office, or downstate.

I think there is also potential for some casual UIC fans to come out of the woodwork. I have long thought that is dumb that a lot of UI nursing/medical/health degrees are technically conferred by UIC. They should be their own entity (I.e. UI college of nursing). If it gets conflated with the flagship, no harm as UIUC is the strongest brand, so long as the programs are on par with the rest of UIUC which I believe they are.

Anyways, this leads to the fact that there are actually a surprising amount of UIC grads statewide Alumni by County - University of Illinois System This may be even truer now as al John Marshall Law grads are now UIC grads. Many may be grads of other MVC schools.

Do any of them care about UIC bball? Not yet. Ultimately winning is what will move the needle. Yak and Dee Brown help. They may be more inclined to go to games if they had friends and family who were fans of the schools they were playing. State school and way bigger than Loyola. I also guess there are some DePaul grads out there who are predisposed to disliking Loyola, who would be happy to hop on a UIC bandwagon if the situation ever arose.

 

[SgtHulka]

 

[Redbird222]

They are having a celebration event at their arena for joining the MVC

 

[ISU86]

They are having a celebration event at their arena for joining the MVC

apparently the good folks of Murray, Kentucky are not reading this particular board ... if they did, they would realize they are (according to some) plunging into a dumpster fire

 

[TBS_20]

They are having a celebration event at their arena for joining the MVC

Puts into perspective how the league is viewed for those of us who want to move up. I realize it's not so bad to be stuck in the Valley. It could be worse. And, in a few years we'll probably be a top 10 basketball conference again once the AAC is raided some more.

 

[Adunk33]

Puts into perspective how the league is viewed for those of us who want to move up. I realize it's not so bad to be stuck in the Valley. It could be worse. And, in a few years we'll probably be a top 10 basketball conference again once the AAC is raided some more.

The AAC already has become a glorified C-USA. Like you say, give it a couple years and Wichita will likely end up having its marquee conference games against teams like Rice, North Texas, FAU, and UTSA....oh, wait....

 

[stats]

UIC also makes a lot of sense even though they haven’t earned the invite but neither did Loyola.

Loyola benefited from joining the Valley, but I'm not sure ISU, Bradley and SIU benefited from adding Loyola. The Valley teams clearly had better programs than Loyola before they joining. Not only did Loyola turn into a good program, but they made recruiting kids in our state that much tougher for the state schools. At this point, I don't see a good reason to try to turn UIC into a good program. Just my opinion.