Murray State #23 in AP Poll

[Seven]

3rd Racers team in the top-25 since 2012.

NCAA College Basketball Rankings: AP Top 25 Basketball Poll

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[CaliRdBrd]

They’re consistently much better than us (lately waaaay better). What do they have to offer that we don’t? What’s their formula?

 

[Baltimore Bird]

CaliRdBrd....Great questions. My short answers are recruiting, game coaching/strategy, and the overall atmosphere of the program.
ISU just has too many players leave the program for what is often not a greener pasture, but they leave anyway. Our lack of continuity from year to year plagues us every season. We are always the young team and I can almost guarantee we will be next year too. Everyone can come back. How many will do so from the top 8?

 

[CaliRdBrd]

CaliRdBrd....Great questions. My short answers are recruiting, game coaching/strategy, and the overall atmosphere of the program.
ISU just has too many players leave the program for what is often not a greener pasture, but they leave anyway. Our lack of continuity from year to year plagues us every season. We are always the young team and I can almost guarantee we will be next year too. Everyone can come back. How many will do so from the top 8?

That’s a start.
It would be interesting to do a deep dive into the success of what we once viewed as “lesser programs”, that have since lapped us, and what their secret is.
There are at least ten I can think of off the cuff (probably more like 25) where they’re similar sized mid-majors that have found a way.
It’s all just so sad what Muller has done to this program.

 

[jamminjamarsmiley]

Would be interested to learn about Murray State roster makeup/turnover. Are they losing guys like ISU every year? Are they able to bring in any higher level talent via the portal etc?

 

[SgtHulka]

CaliRdBrd....Great questions. My short answers are recruiting, game coaching/strategy, and the overall atmosphere of the program.
ISU just has too many players leave the program for what is often not a greener pasture, but they leave anyway. Our lack of continuity from year to year plagues us every season. We are always the young team and I can almost guarantee we will be next year too. Everyone can come back. How many will do so from the top 8?

 

[RedbirdSoxFan]

CaliRdBrd....Great questions. My short answers are recruiting, game coaching/strategy, and the overall atmosphere of the program.
ISU just has too many players leave the program for what is often not a greener pasture, but they leave anyway. Our lack of continuity from year to year plagues us every season. We are always the young team and I can almost guarantee we will be next year too. Everyone can come back. How many will do so from the top 8?

Sy Chatman—could Grad-Transfer
Josiah Strong—could Grad-Transfer
Antonio Reeves—could transfer or go pro
Howard Fleming Jr—could transfer
Kendall Lewis—would have to sit a year
Mark Freeman—would have to sit a year
Liam McChesney—would have to sit a year
Ryan Schmitt—not sure about how JUCO’s work

 

[dpdoughbird06]

Sy Chapman—could Grad-Transfer
Josiah Strong—could Grad-Transfer
Antonio Reeves—could transfer or go pro
Howard Fleming Jr—could transfer
Kendall Lewis—would have to sit a year
Mark Freeman—would have to sit a year
Liam McChesney—would have to sit a year
Ryan Schmitt—not sure about how JUCO’s work

Related question: what of the other five scholarships? Usually the bench guys who never see the court consider dropping down a level, but our back end remained more or less intact from last year with Kotov, Washington, Andrews, Sissoko and Ndiaye sticking around. Most of them are sophomores, so maybe two or three take a nice productivity leap next year - a la Reeves?

 

[Commit2theBird]

Sy Chapman—could Grad-Transfer
Josiah Strong—could Grad-Transfer
Antonio Reeves—could transfer or go pro
Howard Fleming Jr—could transfer
Kendall Lewis—would have to sit a year
Mark Freeman—would have to sit a year
Liam McChesney—would have to sit a year
Ryan Schmitt—not sure about how JUCO’s work

With no inside knowledge, I’d say it’s a safe assumption that Chatman, Strong and Reeves all end up playing elsewhere next season. All have value to other teams looking to round out a roster. I could also see where others leave if/when a head coaching change occurs.

 

[BirdGrad2011]

With no inside knowledge, I’d say it’s a safe assumption that Chapman, Strong and Reeves all end up playing elsewhere next season. All have value to other teams looking to round out a roster. I could also see where others leave if/when a head coaching change occurs.

Who is Chapman? Chatman with tearing his ACL won’t be sought after like if he stayed healthy. Reeves is gone one way or another. Honestly, if a coaching change is made then I’m fine with some significant roster turnover. McChesney and Howard are the 2 young guys I for sure want to see stick around.

 

[Bird Friend]

Would be interested to learn about Murray State roster makeup/turnover. Are they losing guys like ISU every year? Are they able to bring in any higher level talent via the portal etc?

This is just from last year's portal. They lost a big contributor, a solid contributor, and 2 with little impact. They gained 1 big contributor, 2 solid contributors, and 1 role player.

LOST to the portal

• Chico Carter 6-2 SG (SOPH): 24 mpg, 12.7 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 1.9 apg, 51% FG, 44% 3FG, 81% FT%
• JaQueze Kirby 6-6 SF (FROSH): played in 12 games
• Desmond Robinson 6-8 PF (SOPH): 24 mpg, 6.9 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 63% FG, 74% FT (show 0 treys)
• Brion Whitley 6-4 SF (RS JR): DNP

GAINED from the portal - thru 24 games

• Damiree Burns 6-7 PF (SOPH): 26 mpg, 6.3 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 62% FG, 64% FT, missed his only trey
• Carter Collins 6-3 PG (Senior): 22 mpg, 4.9 ppg, 1.9 rpg, 1 apg
• Trae Hannibal 6-2 PG (SOPH): 21 mpg, 9.1 ppg, 4.8 rpg, 2.7 apg, 52% FG, 33% 3FG, 70% FT
• Jordan Skipper-Brown 6-6 PF (Senior): 13 mpg, 4.1 ppg, 2.3 rpg,

 

[Adunk33]

Related question: what of the other five scholarships? Usually the bench guys who never see the court consider dropping down a level, but our back end remained more or less intact from last year with Kotov, Washington, Andrews, Sissoko and Ndiaye sticking around. Most of them are sophomores, so maybe two or three take a nice productivity leap next year - a la Reeves?

Keep in mind, if the HC leaves/gets canned, the players can transfer with no penalty unless they transfer to the school the HC goes to. So if Muller got the Dayton job back in 2018 or whatever, Phil would've had to sit if he transferred to Dayton. If Evans transferred to FGCU, he'd be immediately eligible.

Those guys on the bench that you mention will be tough to find a landing spot because they'll have extremely limited D1 film. Their best option would be going low D1/D2 and get some game action before potentially being recruited to mid-level MMs. At that point, eligibility and ability to transfer w/o sitting out become clear as mud.

All that said, if Muller gets let go, I'd assume the new coach is filling at least 8 scholarships and it could be more. The current players committed to the coaching staff, not ISU. During the Coach's show, each player is asked why they chose ISU. Almost every player on the team says something like, "The coaching staff showed they really want me and told me how I could be a player here." Rarely do you hear mentions of the education offered/school, community, fan base, etc. Of course a lot of the kids were recruited during COVID and were not able to visit campus, so that can be considered as well. If Johnson gets retained, I could see Mark and Kendall sticking around another year and then being grad transfers for their covid year, should they utilize it.

 

[Redbird Alum 2004]

Keep in mind, if the HC leaves/gets canned, the players can transfer with no penalty unless they transfer to the school the HC goes to. So if Muller got the Dayton job back in 2018 or whatever, Phil would've had to sit if he transferred to Dayton. If Evans transferred to FGCU, he'd be immediately eligible.

Those guys on the bench that you mention will be tough to find a landing spot because they'll have extremely limited D1 film. Their best option would be going low D1/D2 and get some game action before potentially being recruited to mid-level MMs. At that point, eligibility and ability to transfer w/o sitting out become clear as mud.

All that said, if Muller gets let go, I'd assume the new coach is filling at least 8 scholarships and it could be more. The current players committed to the coaching staff, not ISU. During the Coach's show, each player is asked why they chose ISU. Almost every player on the team says something like, "The coaching staff showed they really want me and told me how I could be a player here." Rarely do you hear mentions of the education offered/school, community, fan base, etc. Of course a lot of the kids were recruited during COVID and were not able to visit campus, so that can be considered as well. If Johnson gets retained, I could see Mark and Kendall sticking around another year and then being grad transfers for their covid year, should they utilize it.

I wouldn't mind Tony being retained as well. He seems to really connect with the players.

 

[gobirds85]

Keep in mind, if the HC leaves/gets canned, the players can transfer with no penalty unless they transfer to the school the HC goes to. So if Muller got the Dayton job back in 2018 or whatever, Phil would've had to sit if he transferred to Dayton. If Evans transferred to FGCU, he'd be immediately eligible.

Those guys on the bench that you mention will be tough to find a landing spot because they'll have extremely limited D1 film. Their best option would be going low D1/D2 and get some game action before potentially being recruited to mid-level MMs. At that point, eligibility and ability to transfer w/o sitting out become clear as mud.

All that said, if Muller gets let go, I'd assume the new coach is filling at least 8 scholarships and it could be more. The current players committed to the coaching staff, not ISU. During the Coach's show, each player is asked why they chose ISU. Almost every player on the team says something like, "The coaching staff showed they really want me and told me how I could be a player here." Rarely do you hear mentions of the education offered/school, community, fan base, etc. Of course a lot of the kids were recruited during COVID and were not able to visit campus, so that can be considered as well. If Johnson gets retained, I could see Mark and Kendall sticking around another year and then being grad transfers for their covid year, should they utilize it.

But isn't this the main reason any kid goes to a particular school, the coaching staff? Let's be real here, no one is going here because they love the fan support.

 

[Adunk33]

But isn't this the main reason any kid goes to a particular school, the coaching staff? Let's be real here, no one is going here because they love the fan support.

True. But you hear stories about how kids grew up going to games and camps at X school and will want to continue their basketball career there if given the opportunity, regardless who the coach is. I think a relevant example is the Ty Pence kid out of St. Joe-Ogden. He hasn't committed yet and interest may have cooled but he's a BIG Illannoy fan. I think if he still holds a real offer, he's going there, regardless if its Underwood, Groce, Weber, etc. at the helm. Yeah, those situations are rare but sometimes, during their time at a school, players develop an affinity for the community. Jackie Carmichael could've left when Jank did but he chose to stay because he loved ISU. I'm sure there are other examples across NCAAB of kids staying and finishing their college eligibility after a coaching change at the same school because they love it. I feel like a couple Evansville guys that are seniors have gone through 3 coaching changes?

It's unfortunate that it is this way but it seems rare to find a player still playing for the name on the front versus the back.