Is it time to leave MVC for an FBS conference (MAC or CUSA)?

[Redhawk]

Nothing ventured, nothing gained!

The directionals enrollments have steadily declined for years. ISU's enrollment has remained steady. They are losing students to other states! I agree though that it's an uphill battle on facilities/funding.

FBS is probably out of reach but I am alarmed by the complacency and negativity regarding the jump. You are right...I'm in over my head on this!

 

[Total Red]

Nothing ventured, nothing gained!

The directionals enrollments have steadily declined for years. ISU's enrollment has remained steady. They are losing students to other states! I agree though that it's an uphill battle on facilities/funding.

FBS is probably out of reach but I am alarmed by the complacency and negativity regarding the jump. You are right...I'm in over my head on this!

You can make things worse if you put our football program at a level where it doesn't have what it needs to compete. And it's not like the Athletic Dept. is doing nothing. They're trying to take the next step by raising enough money for a decent IPF. That will help all our sports and it will help keep our football facilities at a respectable FCS level. Reality bites, not much I can do about that.

 

[jwa123]

Last I heard Illinois State is happy with enrollment where it is. If you increase enrollment you have to increase infrastructure and faculty. To do that you need a lot of people in power to go along. Is the support going to be there? If Illinois State increases enrollment it would mean less students for the directionals (NIU, SIU, WIU, EIU) and since those schools are already struggling to maintain enrollments you can count on plenty of resistance. If Illinois State is going FBS then it's going to have to raise a lot of the money privately, and we aren't going to be able to raise $5 million per year. Right now, we're looking for an additional, one time, $5 million for an IPF which has already been scaled down from a hard-sided permanent structure to a semi-permanent bubble type facility. It doesn't end there. Kaufman is ok for FCS but it would be scrapping the bottom of the barrel for FBS. The meeting rooms, locker room and training areas are all bottom-tier by FBS standards. Good luck recruiting FBS athletes with our current facilities. A major addition to Kaufman would need to be built that would wrap around the back of the north end zone and perhaps connect to the IPF assuming it exists. Again, the powers that be (Illinois legislature, Illinois State University BOT) would be looking for this to be done with private dollars.
You mean well, but you're in over your head.

I hate it I tell you I just hate it when you enter common sense into the discussion.

 

[Redhawk]

My freshman year at ISU coincided with their first year in the MVC. Since then half of the schools in the league at that time have moved up to better conferences. ISU's big dream is an inflatable bubble. That is "the reality" and it does bite!

 

[ISU86]

With the likely increase in playoff teams to 12 and including a non P5, FBS is perhaps more viable than in the past, because you have a shot. If you stay FCS why stay in the Valley? It’s still tough to win and will rarely get a 2nd bid. I think last year was the first at large by anyone other than Witchita or Creighton in 15 years. We could move down, if Murray comes here go to the OVC you can dominate in football and have a shot every year in basketball. Isn’t it better to be a 14 seed 3 years in a row and show up on everyone’s brackets rather than go 21 years without making it?

As soon as the P5 decide to break-off, what happens to the rest? At that point, does it really matter if you are in the AAC, CUSA, MAC, MWC, SBC? They will be FBS but also left-behind. Not even convinced entire B12 makes the cut. There will be no non-P5 at that point, more like another "association" to oversee the haves and FBS will be "the rest".

 

[Redhawk]

A P5 break-off isn't coming. They have the best of both worlds, they control the CFP ($$$$) and they also get preferential treatment from the NCAA on at large bids from March Madness ($$$$). They need the G5 for games to pad their win totals and fill out bowl games ($$$$)
It's to good of a cash cow now to try to go it alone.

 

[StLRedbird]

It's feeling a lot like Revenge of the Nerds around here lately.

Senior Day at Hancock tomorrow. 50 dry degrees at game time.

 

[Commit2theBird]

I’m not sure any non-P5 FBS conferences would want us at this point. Maybe Conference USA is desperate, but other than that I don’t see much appeal. The time to move would have been back is 2015-2016, coming off the strong football run and COY basketball season. Today we are selling a Thursday night basketball team with a lame duck coach, and a football team that’s middle of the pack in the MVFC. I could easily sell the university to an FBS conference, but I’d struggle to sell MBB and FB.

 

[NashvilleBirdFan]

I’m not sure any non-P5 FBS conferences would want us at this point. Maybe Conference USA is desperate, but other than that I don’t see much appeal. The time to move would have been back is 2015-2016, coming off the strong football run and COY basketball season. Today we are selling a Thursday night basketball team with a lame duck coach, and a football team that’s middle of the pack in the MVFC. I could easily sell the university to an FBS conference, but I’d struggle to sell MBB and FB.

The quality university is an easier sell than people think, that takes decades to create.. a quality football and basketball program can be created in a couple of years with the right leadership..

 

[BirdGrad2011]

The quality university is an easier sell than people think, that takes decades to create.. a quality football and basketball program can be created in a couple of years with the right leadership..

This. I ventured over to the MAC message board to see if anyone had brought up options for them. Sure enough a decent amount view ISU fondly. The only ones against it are NIU where I’m sure they worry because ISU is superior as a university and campus. Their advantage of recruiting Chicago would go out the window. I’m pretty confident ISU could pass them in football pretty quick if on level footing.

 

[NashvilleBirdFan]

This. I ventured over to the MAC message board to see if anyone had brought up options for them. Sure enough a decent amount view ISU fondly. The only ones against it are NIU where I’m sure they worry because ISU is superior as a university and campus. Their advantage of recruiting Chicago would go out the window. I’m pretty confident ISU could pass them in football pretty quick if on level footing.

Absolutely this, we would out recruit NIU because its a better school and kids would rather spend 4 years here compared to 4 years in Dekalb. Our biggest hurdle to getting into the MAC at some point maybe from NIU not wanting big brother in

 

[ISUBird]

The MAC is already at 12 teams so I think they would be picky. They already stated they don't want any FCS call ups.

 

[Redbird Ray is Back]

It was time for ISU to leave for an FBS conference at least around the time WKU went all in on the Sun Belt, if not earlier.

Also, there’s really no need to worry about the 15k attendance benchmark. The rule isn’t enforced by the NCAA, and everyone in FBS fabricates attendance anyway.

 

[NashvilleBirdFan]

The MAC is already at 12 teams so I think they would be picky. They already stated they don't want any FCS call ups.

Their problem is if they want to expand, they probably have to take FCS schools because the line to get into that conference is pretty small.. their options will be CUSA and FCS at this moment

 

[Birddog]

Interesting topic but I didn’t vote as basically I don’t have enough information to make a rational vote. I’ve read that going FBS generates more expense than the revenue it generates. I can understand the expense portion of the equation to an extent. Coaches would cost more due to higher salaries and larger staffs. Travel costs most likely increase. Due to the larger number of FBS scholarships the number of women’s scholarships will also have to increase. I have no idea how to quantify the increased expenses but no doubt they go up.

What about the revenue side? Will revenues go up sufficiently enough to offset the increased expenses? I don’t know but from some things I’ve read in the past the answer seems to be no. Would attendance go up significantly if ISU was playing Ball State or Western Kentucky over a game with Northern Iowa? I doubt it. If ISU did go FBS we know they will never go to the Rose Bowl, Sugar Bowl or any of the NYs Bowls. ISU would go to something like the Armadillo Bowl and from what I’ve read have to pay for that privilege.

I am sure there are posters far more knowledgeable than I about FBS who can post hard data on the financial impact but I am somewhat dubious that going FBS is financially beneficial.

I posted yesterday that I am beginning to think the MVC is not as beneficial to ISU as it was once. From an institutional fit do we fit better with “MAC“ type schools or Valparaiso or say Evansville? It seems the privates are influencing decisions on perhaps an outsize basis. A couple days ago I had an accident on my mountain bike going too fast for my age and then crashing. With either broken or bruised ribs I’ve spent more time perusing the web than the usual person would as it hurts to get up and move about. I’ve read elsewhere that the privates are driving Arlington and Kansas City as they want their names in front of prospective students in major metro markets like those two. Can we as ISU fans get excited about Arlington and Kansas City? I can’t!

So what then? I will end this now as my verbosity is starting to get out of hand. I am nervous about the direction of the MVC. I have my doubts about FBS football - I don’t see it as a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. What I am beginning ponder, however, is an all sports FCS conference an option? Should the MVFC leave the MVC and do their own thing and let the Bradley’s of the world make those trips to Arlington and Kansas City?

G5 schools hang their revenue hat on bigger payouts from P5 schools when they play them. Western Michigan played two P5s this year and probably made more than $2M then passed some of that money on to ISU. The question I have about all this is will there still be P5 payout games for G5 schools In 5-10 years. What about TV revenue? Will that dry up for the G5s? Is it possible that the networks online want big time CFB? Is it possible that what we now think of the G5 looks more like the FCS.

My head hurts.

 

[ISUBird]

Their problem is if they want to expand, they probably have to take FCS schools because the line to get into that conference is pretty small.. their options will be CUSA and FCS at this moment

I agree with you that currently the only FBS conference they could pull from can be the CUSA. I would assume they would still want WKU which touches Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio so it's not too far out of their current footprint. Maybe MTSU is willing to go in a few years after getting the exit money from the other schools. If not I could see NDSU, SDSU, or MSU. That list is smaller than I thought. I guess if ISU really wanted in they coud convince NIU. The thing is we haven't hinted at wanting to move up recently.

 

[jbird]

Pardon me for being Captain Obvious,
but all of this talk about it being our time to make the move to an FBS conference ignores the fact that it will never be "our time," it will be "their time." We don't get to crash uninvited into an FBS conference.

 

[ISUBird]

Pardon me for being Captain Obvious,
but all of this talk about it being our time to make the move to an FBS conference ignores the fact that it will never be "our time," it will be "their time." We don't get to crash uninvited into an FBS conference.

If we really wanted to we could move up as an independent like Liberty. I heard the NCAA didn't want it to be brought to court so they let them move to FBS.

 

[TBS_20]

31-20 (including football board poll) in favor of moving up. That's 61%. That has to be a lot more than a year or two ago. I bet donors start coming back and more show up if they go FBS. I'm sure they could get in good with State Farm, too.

 

[Total Red]

31-20 (including football board poll) in favor of moving up. That's 61%. That has to be a lot more than a year or two ago. I bet donors start coming back and more show up if they go FBS. I'm sure they could get in good with State Farm, too.

I've heard this argument many times over the years. You are person that is interested in Redbird Athletics. You talk to other people that are also interested. You post on a message board where like-minded people who are also interested in Redbird Athletics hang out. You find that you have some agreement and support for your ideas for advancing Redbird Athletics. Now trying getting out of your bubble and take your message to the real world. Talk to random students on the quad, talk to faculty and staff, talk to various people prominent in the B/N community. Ask them about their goals and aspirations for Illinois State University and see how many mention FBS football. How many even know or care what FBS football means. So far you have 31 supporters.