Is it time to leave MVC for an FBS conference (MAC or CUSA)?

[Redbird222]

The collegiate athletic landscape has changed so much the past 10 years. I believe treading water is not the answer. There are probably more options out there but this is how my feable, uniformed, and never-worked-in-an-atheltic department mind sees it:

Actually before I list the options, here is one consideration on the current state to keep in mind: Having a split conference where half the teams are supporting football and the other half don't can create competing priorities and misalignment.

Back to the options

1. Cut football and go all in on basketball. It may be difficult to move to a higher rated conference than the MVC without football. The issue is more of the better leagues have football - P5, AAC, and MWC than conference without football. Historically, the Big East, West Coast, A10 and MVC are the better nonfootball conferences. The Big East is more than a long putt given the makeup of the schools. The West Coast geographically makes no sense so that leaves the A-10 and MVC. You could definitely reduce budgetary costs or reallocate them to basketball.
2. Same as #1 except join the Pioneer league where there are no scholarships. We get to still have games but besides league play we won't be very relevant. We can bask in the glory of when we beat an FCS team that offers scholarships. We can still have homecoming and family games
3. We continue to participate in MVCFC and MVC basketball. The football costs are less than FBS but more than options #1 and #2. You probably are not going to be able to reallocate any additional funds to basketball and football revenue will be limited. Your options for basketball conferences are pretty much the same as #1 and #2 so you have to hope both the MVC league does not continue the cycle of better programs jumping ship and you also have to have some concern that the better football teams don't leave as well (MVCFC and/or MVC).
4a the MVCFC moves (or portion) to FBS ... I don't think getting the NCAA to approve is the biggest barrier. The more difficult task would probably be getting enough current members to make the leap in a coordinated effort. There are scholarships, stadium, other budgetary concerns, and moving teams from multiple conferences. I think there could be a very respectable basketball conference with the right teams and perhaps adding a Murray and Western Kentucky to the mix. Of course adding more teams from different leagues just makes it more complex.
4b Move to FBS in an existing G5 conference. If there is not a group concensus in 4a this may be a much more viable option especially if there are only 1 to 4 willing MVCFC members. There would still be the additional costs mentioned in 4a but there could be potential additional revenue most likely to offset only a portion of the additional costs. The MAC and Conference USA are the most likely conferences given AAC and MWC are comprised of more established FBS teams and Sun Belt has just gone through an upgraded realignment. I think in this option the ultimate goal would have to be the goal of joining a stronger conference eventually. Unless you get enough MVC teams to join you, you may have to sacrifice the basketball part of the conference in the short term. However, staying in conference USA with no other aspirations may be like moving from one purgatory hell to another one.

There are barriers and risks to each of the options. There are also risks to standing pat and not doing anything. I believe ISU ultimately needs to make a decision on football. Unfortunately this is where both the increased revenue and costs in collegiate athletics reside. We may have to take some calculated risks and try to navigate the FBS landscape to achieve/maintain athletic relevance. We can also decide not to invest in football and invest more in basketball. I think we should be prepared to stay in the MVC in this case because I don't see ISU's geographic, financial, and other demographics allowing us to move to other power nonfootball conferences.

In retrospect, I wish we could have parlayed the football championship game with a stronger basket program (it was stronger at the time) with a conference move. Given the constant changing landscape, I think we potentially could be in a better position than we are now. While some may feel the "safe" option is to stay in MVC and MVCFC, each year I am more convinced that may lead to a slow death.

I personally would like to see option 4a.

 

[MadBird]

I watch MAC games every week. I love college football and will take it any time I can get it. Guess I’m a nerd.

I look in on MACtion games too, especially when NIU is playing, but I don't think anyone at NIU or Toledo, etc. should be screwed out of a Saturday tailgate and ball game for my enjoyment. I'd be just as satisfied watching a basketball game. Put more hoops on, ESPN. MAC, have them show your basketball games on Tuesday and Wednesday instead of your football.

 

[FriscoBird90]

The time for ISU to have put out feelers to FBS conferences was no later than when OU and tu announced they intended to bolt the Big XII for the SEC. IMHO, if ISU was going to make such a move, they should have done it either 10 years ago when the first round of FBS conference realignments was taking place or when they realized the Valley was continuing to replace programs that were moving on to bigger and better things such as Tulsa and Creighton with the likes of Valpo. To make the move now, this late in what might be the last significant realignment cycle, might mean having to knowingly reach for the shortest straw left on the table.

If ISU ever plans to move up to an FBS conference, they are going to face significant financial challenges in terms of funding the additional scholarships and upgrading facilities. Here in the DFW metro area, a number of public high schools have newer and nicer stadiums than Hancock, and they cost in the $60+ million range to build from scratch. Can/Will ISU raise even half that much to upgrade Hancock in the next few years? Sadly, I doubt it.

 

[Redbird82]

The collegiate athletic landscape has changed so much the past 10 years. I believe treading water is not the answer. There are probably more options out there but this is how my feable, uniformed, and never-worked-in-an-atheltic department mind sees it:

Actually before I list the options, here is one consideration on the current state to keep in mind: Having a split conference where half the teams are supporting football and the other half don't can create competing priorities and misalignment.

Back to the options

1. Cut football and go all in on basketball. It may be difficult to move to a higher rated conference than the MVC without football. The issue is more of the better leagues have football - P5, AAC, and MWC than conference without football. Historically, the Big East, West Coast, A10 and MVC are the better nonfootball conferences. The Big East is more than a long putt given the makeup of the schools. The West Coast geographically makes no sense so that leaves the A-10 and MVC. You could definitely reduce budgetary costs or reallocate them to basketball.
2. Same as #1 except join the Pioneer league where there are no scholarships. We get to still have games but besides league play we won't be very relevant. We can bask in the glory of when we beat an FCS team that offers scholarships. We can still have homecoming and family games
3. We continue to participate in MVCFC and MVC basketball. The football costs are less than FBS but more than options #1 and #2. You probably are not going to be able to reallocate any additional funds to basketball and football revenue will be limited. Your options for basketball conferences are pretty much the same as #1 and #2 so you have to hope both the MVC league does not continue the cycle of better programs jumping ship and you also have to have some concern that the better football teams don't leave as well (MVCFC and/or MVC).
4a the MVCFC moves (or portion) to FBS ... I don't think getting the NCAA to approve is the biggest barrier. The more difficult task would probably be getting enough current members to make the leap in a coordinated effort. There are scholarships, stadium, other budgetary concerns, and moving teams from multiple conferences. I think there could be a very respectable basketball conference with the right teams and perhaps adding a Murray and Western Kentucky to the mix. Of course adding more teams from different leagues just makes it more complex.
4b Move to FBS in an existing G5 conference. If there is not a group concensus in 4a this may be a much more viable option especially if there are only 1 to 4 willing MVCFC members. There would still be the additional costs mentioned in 4a but there could be potential additional revenue most likely to offset only a portion of the additional costs. The MAC and Conference USA are the most likely conferences given AAC and MWC are comprised of more established FBS teams and Sun Belt has just gone through an upgraded realignment. I think in this option the ultimate goal would have to be the goal of joining a stronger conference eventually. Unless you get enough MVC teams to join you, you may have to sacrifice the basketball part of the conference in the short term. However, staying in conference USA with no other aspirations may be like moving from one purgatory hell to another one.

There are barriers and risks to each of the options. There are also risks to standing pat and not doing anything. I believe ISU ultimately needs to make a decision on football. Unfortunately this is where both the increased revenue and costs in collegiate athletics reside. We may have to take some calculated risks and try to navigate the FBS landscape to achieve/maintain athletic relevance. We can also decide not to invest in football and invest more in basketball. I think we should be prepared to stay in the MVC in this case because I don't see ISU's geographic, financial, and other demographics allowing us to move to other power nonfootball conferences.

In retrospect, I wish we could have parlayed the football championship game with a stronger basket program (it was stronger at the time) with a conference move. Given the constant changing landscape, I think we potentially could be in a better position than we are now. While some may feel the "safe" option is to stay in MVC and MVCFC, each year I am more convinced that may lead to a slow death.

I personally would like to see option 4a.

With the likely increase in playoff teams to 12 and including a non P5, FBS is perhaps more viable than in the past, because you have a shot. If you stay FCS why stay in the Valley? It’s still tough to win and will rarely get a 2nd bid. I think last year was the first at large by anyone other than Witchita or Creighton in 15 years. We could move down, if Murray comes here go to the OVC you can dominate in football and have a shot every year in basketball. Isn’t it better to be a 14 seed 3 years in a row and show up on everyone’s brackets rather than go 21 years without making it?

 

[Bird Friend]

Yes, it's estimated the jump to be up to $5-million more per year in expenses according to WKU's move up. Now, the 'Birds need about 7,000 more seats though. But, they could get somewhat temporary seating for cheaper until they find a permanent solution.

I wonder if they still have those old bleachers from Horton . . .

 

[Bird Friend]

How does everyone feel about MACtion on Tuesday and Wednesday nights? I know it's not ideal for tailgating and fans in general, but the tv $$$ is apparently enticing enough that the MAC Presidents and ADs have signed on. I have no idea what the breakdown is financially for the schools but they seem to like being on tv with very little attendance.

I watch it every Friday nite!

 

[Bird Friend]

In retrospect, I wish we could have parlayed the football championship game with a stronger basket program (

Seems our basket program has gone the way of Longaberger . . . And like them, it seems our future success must be digital.

 

[DannyCooksey]

Men’s basketball can’t compete in the Valley. It’s been pretty obvious to me for years. We are a joke. The other sports do well and should remain in the Valley.

I’d like to see us either go Independent or go to D2 in men’s basketball or just drop the sport all together. The best teams from the Valley over the past 10-15 years have left the league or are leaving and we still suck royally every year. We are a joke. No business in this league.

I think a complete removal from the Valley isn’t fair to the other sports but men’s basketball needs to realize what they are. Atrocious. There is no evidence that anyone in the athletic dept cares anyway so why continue down this path?

When the day arrives that Muller is no longer the coach Brennan needs to do the right thing and pull the plug

 

[Total Red]

The fact that this discussion is taking place on the basketball board tells you a lot about why Redbird football isn't in the FBS.

 

[Redbird222]

The fact that this discussion is taking place on the basketball board tells you a lot about why Redbird football isn't in the FBS.

Wait ... there's a football board?

 

[StLRedbird]

You do understand that the investment needed in football for any one to even *think* about taking us in FBS football would be pretty high?

I have read that college football strongly correlates to higher alumni engagement and higher giving compared to other sports. I think that is mainly due to the gameday experience around a football game. No other sport has an equivalent.

 

[Total Red]

I have read that college football strongly correlates to higher alumni engagement and higher giving compared to other sports. I think that is mainly due to the gameday experience around a football game. No other sport has an equivalent.

TBS_20 - They can play at 430AM Wednesday mornings after the mypillow infomercial​

Well there goes your football gameday experience.

 

[StLRedbird]

TBS_20 - They can play at 430AM Wednesday mornings after the mypillow infomercial​

Well there goes your football gameday experience.

The MAC screwed up with those Tue/Wed games. They are unpopular with their fans, judging by my super-scientific survey of occasionally dropping in on the NIU board. I hope they don't renew that contract. Does the MAC have visibly higher profile as a result of those games, as promised? Not in my mind.

 

[StLRedbird]

The fact that this discussion is taking place on the basketball board tells you a lot about why Redbird football isn't in the FBS.

Sure, basketball drives the bus at ISU. Why is the question. I'll boldly assert that the only competitive advantage ISU ever had was Horton Fieldhouse. I witnessed many games there that were won by the outrageous noise level the place could generate. Since we moved to Redbird Arena, it's been a slow slide downhill. Our basketball program is pretty ordinary nowadays.

Don't take me wrong. I love RA and feel good every time I walk through the doors. But Horton made the program.

 

[BirdGrad2011]

Sure, basketball drives the bus at ISU. Why is the question. I'll boldly assert that the only competitive advantage ISU ever had was Horton Fieldhouse. I witnessed many games there that were won by the outrageous noise level the place could generate. Since we moved to Redbird Arena, it's been a slow slide downhill. Our basketball program is pretty ordinary nowadays.

Don't take me wrong. I love RA and feel good every time I walk through the doors. But Horton made the program.

What? Bad hires since the 90s slid the program. RBA helps recruit and doesn’t hurt anything.

 

[Bird Friend]

What? Bad hires since the 90s slid the program. RBA helps recruit and doesn’t hurt anything.

Pretty sure he wasn’t suggesting Redbird doesn’t help. Just that we were our best when we were still in Horton. I’d suggest that Horton really helped the home court advantage, but Robinson and Smithsonian gave the program very high visibility. Not sure about the ethical quality of our recruiting at that time, tho.

 

[Redhawk]

It's now or never! The ISU administration and AD's have been complacent to long. ISU (and MSU) have outgrown the Valley. It is a collection
of small private schools and dwindling enrollment publics. The best potential future for ISU is to take a chance on FBS. The cost will hurt up front but the long term benifits of exposure, enrollment increases and hopefully more competitive teams can only occure with this bold step!
Although the MAC is preferable and a more stable destination...CUSA is desperate. Take advantage and jump now!

 

[isuquinndog]

The only money in college football is TV contracts. Without that, you aren't making money.

 

[Redhawk]

Nobody but the P5 actually makes money at athletics! It is a breakeven at best proposition at all levels DI-DIII.
Exposure and increased enrollment means more money. That is why the privates want the Valley to get into Texas & KC. So they can get 5-10 more students a year to enroll. The $5 Million yearly increase to move to FBS could eventually be offset by additional student enrollment.

 

[Total Red]

Nobody but the P5 actually makes money at athletics! It is a breakeven at best proposition at all levels DI-DIII.
Exposure and increased enrollment means more money. That is why the privates want the Valley to get into Texas & KC. So they can get 5-10 more students a year to enroll. The $5 Million yearly increase to move to FBS could eventually be offset by additional student enrollment.

Last I heard Illinois State is happy with enrollment where it is. If you increase enrollment you have to increase infrastructure and faculty. To do that you need a lot of people in power to go along. Is the support going to be there? If Illinois State increases enrollment it would mean less students for the directionals (NIU, SIU, WIU, EIU) and since those schools are already struggling to maintain enrollments you can count on plenty of resistance. If Illinois State is going FBS then it's going to have to raise a lot of the money privately, and we aren't going to be able to raise $5 million per year. Right now, we're looking for an additional, one time, $5 million for an IPF which has already been scaled down from a hard-sided permanent structure to a semi-permanent bubble type facility. It doesn't end there. Kaufman is ok for FCS but it would be scrapping the bottom of the barrel for FBS. The meeting rooms, locker room and training areas are all bottom-tier by FBS standards. Good luck recruiting FBS athletes with our current facilities. A major addition to Kaufman would need to be built that would wrap around the back of the north end zone and perhaps connect to the IPF assuming it exists. Again, the powers that be (Illinois legislature, Illinois State University BOT) would be looking for this to be done with private dollars.
You mean well, but you're in over your head.