Indoor Facility News

[fourthandshort]

Maybe I could commence to name-calling, and steer the thread off track!

If you need ideas there, apparently the basketball forum can show you how its done most effectively.

:snooty: :snooty: :mrgreen:

dang it !!! ever since that survey, we can't have any fun around here no more !!!

:violin: :violin: :violin:

 

[TIMMY]

For those in favor of a bubble, I think this would be a decent option. Just throw it up over Hancock.

https://bceagles.com/facilities/?id=8

I'm not a huge fan of the bubbles, but can agree that it would be better than nothing. Just can't understand how so many D2 schools can manage to put together funding for a DECENT indoor facility and we can't. I mean, I can understand, it's just really irritating...

Bubble over Hancock would work for winter, but isn't a solution for football "in season". Better to do it over the regular practice field, or another location I guess.

I'd still favor a permanent facility, but at some point you'd think it's time to "recalibrate" and set sights lower if the bucks aren't coming in for a "real" facility.

Putting the dome over a practice field is a much better alternative than putting it up over Hancock. But it comes with a higher price tag. Over a million to put in a field-turf field, pour footings and run utilities. Hancock has that infrastructure. Beggars can't be choosers and for many reasons we a beggars.

 

[fourthandshort]

So I first posted this in response to TR on the Brady Davis thread since it drifted to discussion of offseason workouts and facilities.

So clarifying where I left off on Brady Davis thread .. if Sports Admin told us today, we will NOT do a bubble and we probably won't have a new indoor building for 5 years or more, I would honestly settle for redoing the Horton surface with indoor turf and pellets. The roof, walls, furnace, and surface are most important aspect ... so as cheap and short sighted as this idea sounds, I would take it over what we have today if our window is 5+ years before we get a building.

Curious what others think .... Is that stupid (good money after bad) or is this better than doing nothing for stop gap idea to finish raising money for building ???

#letsturfHorton ... it's better than nothing !!!

 

[Virginia Redbird]

So I first posted this in response to TR on the Brady Davis thread since it drifted to discussion of offseason workouts and facilities.

So clarifying where I left off on Brady Davis thread .. if Sports Admin told us today, we will NOT do a bubble and we probably won't have a new indoor building for 5 years or more, I would honestly settle for redoing the Horton surface with indoor turf and pellets. The roof, walls, furnace, and surface are most important aspect ... so as cheap and short sighted as this idea sounds, I would take it over what we have today if our window is 5+ years before we get a building.

Curious what others think .... Is that stupid (good money after bad) or is this better than doing nothing for stop gap idea to finish raising money for building ???

#letsturfHorton ... it's better than nothing !!!

I don't have any first-hand knowledge but I have read from several posters that Horton is used extensively for other purposes and I would not be in favour of kicking anyone out of the building for indoor football practice. I don't expect a permanent building to be built in the near future so it seems to me a temporary facility is the only logical solution. It does not appear there is any interest in that either so I expect the only option will be to practice outside if possible.
You have to play the games in crappy weather I know but in practice, you need to prepare, focus and concentrate. Also easier to be hit with injuries practising in the cold on slippery snow or sleet covered turf. The argument about having to practice in crappy weather because you play the games in crappy weather does not seem like a good one to me. If it is so important to practice in brutal winter weather to simulate game conditions why do so many programs build indoor facilities...temp or permanent?

 

[fourthandshort]

yeah, I suppose if used for various sports (volleyball or basketball) events, especially if it helps generate profitable revenue, my turf idea would never happen.

 

[Total Red]

The argument about having to practice in crappy weather because you play the games in crappy weather does not seem like a good one to me. If it is so important to practice in brutal winter weather to simulate game conditions why do so many programs build indoor facilities...temp or permanent?

There's no doubt that facilities are important. It would be great to have an indoor practice facility. But this thread has gone overboard with the "woe is us" attitude.

Our program has already come within a whisker of the 2015 National Championship and the QB on that team was 1st team MVFC. And earlier in 2012 Matt Brown was a 1st team MVFC selection and the Missouri Valley Offensive Player of the Year. Neither QB ever got to practice on an ISU indoor practice field.

It's mid-December and today it was over 40 degrees and sunny in Normal. You could easily practice outside today. Many winter days are colder but yes it does make sense to spend some time practicing in that weather. You don't want Game Day to be your first exposure to cold and/or snow. On the few remaining days when the weather is really really bad our QB's can throw the ball around inside Horton to keep their arms toned. They'll have plenty of opportunities for serious outdoor workouts on days like today and in the spring.

We've got a lot of people on Redbirdfan.net that like to focus on what we don't have and they like to post about what they think we can't do. My heroes are the players and coaches that excel by asking "what DO I have" and "what CAN I do." I guarantee you that the 2018 MVFC Coach of the Year Curt Mallory is that type of guy. He knew he didn't have an indoor practice facility when he took the job at Indiana St. And he knew that he had the worst stadium in the conference because it's located on the other side of town from campus. They tore down the student section on the far side of the school because students couldn't or wouldn't make the trip across town. Mallory didn't focus on that. He just went out and recruited a FBS QB transfer from Iowa and went from 0-11 to 7-4.

Todd Berry was a "what DO I have" and "what CAN I do" type of guy. He didn't have an indoor practice facility, he didn't have the Kaufman Bldg, he didn't have Hancock 2.0. He had a D-I football program with facilities a high school might be proud of. Regardless he made the playoffs his last two seasons (1998-99) while posting a 19-7 record.

And as noted above Coach Brock Spack won 9 games with QB Matt Brown in 2012 while beating Appalachian St. before Hancock 2.0 was built. After it was built he won 13 games in 2014 en route to the 2015 National Championship game.

Facilities are great but People make a place. Great Attitudes make Great People. Great Attitudes start with questions like "what DO I have" and "what CAN I do."

We have the core of a great team returning. I'm excited about the players that will be joining them soon. We have a lot and I'll be very interested in seeing what they can do.

 

[TIMMY]

4th Intramural sports. I don't think it produces any revenue, but the participants foot a hefty bill that goes to athletics in the form of student fees.
Virginia. Schools build indoor facilities for off-season workouts. Not just for football but for most spring and fall sports. That's when athletes get better if they're dedicated. I'm sure some want to bitch slap me for my constant bitching about this. But it's all about performance. Everyone practices in season. That's not when you see gains. In the past not as many schools at our level had indoor facilities. That's changed and the gap keeps getting wider. Our kids are at a big disadvantage.

 

[JHBird]

4th Intramural sports. I don't think it produces any revenue, but the participants foot a hefty bill that goes to athletics in the form of student fees.
Virginia. Schools build indoor facilities for off-season workouts. Not just for football but for most spring and fall sports. That's when athletes get better if they're dedicated. I'm sure some want to bitch slap me for my constant bitching about this. But it's all about performance. Everyone practices in season. That's not when you see gains. In the past not as many schools at our level had indoor facilities. That's changed and the gap keeps getting wider. Our kids are at a big disadvantage.

I agree Timmy. Everybody's doing it except us! There must be a good reason why others pour so much money into it. I doubt it's our strategy to not have one, we just can't keep up. That's the reality we're in right now. I still think we'll have some kinda bubble option in the next few years. If I had billions I would donate to get it done. Of course they'd have to name it the "JHBird Practice Facility"...

 

[BallwinBird2012]

4th Intramural sports. I don't think it produces any revenue, but the participants foot a hefty bill that goes to athletics in the form of student fees.
Virginia. Schools build indoor facilities for off-season workouts. Not just for football but for most spring and fall sports. That's when athletes get better if they're dedicated. I'm sure some want to bitch slap me for my constant bitching about this. But it's all about performance. Everyone practices in season. That's not when you see gains. In the past not as many schools at our level had indoor facilities. That's changed and the gap keeps getting wider. Our kids are at a big disadvantage.

I agree Timmy. Everybody's doing it except us! There must be a good reason why others pour so much money into it. I doubt it's our strategy to not have one, we just can't keep up. That's the reality we're in right now. I still think we'll have some kinda bubble option in the next few years. If I had billions I would donate to get it done. Of course they'd have to name it the "JHBird Practice Facility"...

I agree and would just add that, IMO, indoor fields (and facilities in general) are really more about perception and image. Spack has said he thinks this place has the potential to be "big time". Right now, "big time" programs are building indoor facilities, even at the lower levels. Does it make a major difference on the field? I think it's debatable. BUT if I'm a recruit and I'm looking at a number of schools, are nice facilities going to factor into the decision? I think so. You can have a great program, but if your place looks like crap, it's going to give the visual that your program is crap and that the university doesn't care about supporting it.

Right now, I'd say we are middle of the pack just in the MVFC in terms of overall facilities (stadium, locker room, weight room, football building, indoor). I think NDSU, SDSU, SIU-C, Youngstown are definitely "ahead" of us in the facilities "arms race". I'd put us even with or slightly behind WIU, UNI, and maybe MOST. Clearly ahead of ISUb. Don't know much about South Dakota (their weight room looks nice...). Just my thoughts anyway.

 

[DBird]

4th Intramural sports. I don't think it produces any revenue, but the participants foot a hefty bill that goes to athletics in the form of student fees.
Virginia. Schools build indoor facilities for off-season workouts. Not just for football but for most spring and fall sports. That's when athletes get better if they're dedicated. I'm sure some want to bitch slap me for my constant bitching about this. But it's all about performance. Everyone practices in season. That's not when you see gains. In the past not as many schools at our level had indoor facilities. That's changed and the gap keeps getting wider. Our kids are at a big disadvantage.

Hey Timmy it's the CC coach here again!!
Spot on!!

 

[JHBird]

4th Intramural sports. I don't think it produces any revenue, but the participants foot a hefty bill that goes to athletics in the form of student fees.
Virginia. Schools build indoor facilities for off-season workouts. Not just for football but for most spring and fall sports. That's when athletes get better if they're dedicated. I'm sure some want to bitch slap me for my constant bitching about this. But it's all about performance. Everyone practices in season. That's not when you see gains. In the past not as many schools at our level had indoor facilities. That's changed and the gap keeps getting wider. Our kids are at a big disadvantage.

I agree Timmy. Everybody's doing it except us! There must be a good reason why others pour so much money into it. I doubt it's our strategy to not have one, we just can't keep up. That's the reality we're in right now. I still think we'll have some kinda bubble option in the next few years. If I had billions I would donate to get it done. Of course they'd have to name it the "JHBird Practice Facility"...

I agree and would just add that, IMO, indoor fields (and facilities in general) are really more about perception and image. Spack has said he thinks this place has the potential to be "big time". Right now, "big time" programs are building indoor facilities, even at the lower levels. Does it make a major difference on the field? I think it's debatable. BUT if I'm a recruit and I'm looking at a number of schools, are nice facilities going to factor into the decision? I think so. You can have a great program, but if your place looks like crap, it's going to give the visual that your program is crap and that the university doesn't care about supporting it.

Right now, I'd say we are middle of the pack just in the MVFC in terms of overall facilities (stadium, locker room, weight room, football building, indoor). I think NDSU, SDSU, SIU-C, Youngstown are definitely "ahead" of us in the facilities "arms race". I'd put us even with or slightly behind WIU, UNI, and maybe MOST. Clearly ahead of ISUb. Don't know much about South Dakota (their weight room looks nice...). Just my thoughts anyway.

Building one would be another gigantic step. Remember how bad Hancock looked before the major renovation/expansion? Can't imagine trying to impress a recruit with the old stadium, with the crappy bleachers on the East side. Brock said the renovation had a huge impact on recruiting. He said it spoke to us being 'committed' to football here at ISU.

It's gotta happen at some time

 

[fourthandshort]

4th Intramural sports. I don't think it produces any revenue, but the participants foot a hefty bill that goes to athletics in the form of student fees.
Virginia. Schools build indoor facilities for off-season workouts. Not just for football but for most spring and fall sports. That's when athletes get better if they're dedicated. I'm sure some want to bitch slap me for my constant bitching about this. But it's all about performance. Everyone practices in season. That's not when you see gains. In the past not as many schools at our level had indoor facilities. That's changed and the gap keeps getting wider. Our kids are at a big disadvantage.

for some reason I was assuming HS tournaments and camps for sports like Volleyball and Basketball. But you're right, you don;t want to take away intramurals from the students for this .. period.

But I completely agree the potential gains on other teams are much more prominent in offseason. And it's all about replicating the playing surface ... the footing thing, along with some lines ... that is the key. That and the whole roof, walls, and climate control thing ... we are at disadvantage, especially skill players like receivers and defensive backs, but all positions really.

 

[TIMMY]

4th Intramural sports. I don't think it produces any revenue, but the participants foot a hefty bill that goes to athletics in the form of student fees.
Virginia. Schools build indoor facilities for off-season workouts. Not just for football but for most spring and fall sports. That's when athletes get better if they're dedicated. I'm sure some want to bitch slap me for my constant bitching about this. But it's all about performance. Everyone practices in season. That's not when you see gains. In the past not as many schools at our level had indoor facilities. That's changed and the gap keeps getting wider. Our kids are at a big disadvantage.

for some reason I was assuming HS tournaments and camps for sports like Volleyball and Basketball. But you're right, you don;t want to take away intramurals from the students for this .. period.

But I completely agree the potential gains on other teams are much more prominent in offseason. And it's all about replicating the playing surface ... the footing thing, along with some lines ... that is the key. That and the whole roof, walls, and climate control thing ... we are at disadvantage, especially skill players like receivers and defensive backs, but all positions really.

For sure, hash marks, sidelines, yard lines, numbers are all important and necessary landmarks. And for sure skill kids reap the benefits. All of our athletes will. My niece was a gymnast at Michigan State. (Don't ask). We went up to see her. The girls were doing 100 yard gassers on the indoor football field. Soft surface Horton doesn't offer. Just a small example of many.

 

[Reggie Redbird]

If you don’t think facilities matter, ask ISU admins why they are working to create a really nice gateway to campus at the Bone Student Center and why the campus rec center was a big deal. It’s the same as the luxury apartments they’re throwing up. It helps recruit student-athletes with the added purpose of training athletes across all of our programs.

 

[cpacmel]

If you don’t think facilities matter, ask ISU admins why they are working to create a really nice gateway to campus at the Bone Student Center and why the campus rec center was a big deal. It’s the same as the luxury apartments they’re throwing up. It helps recruit student-athletes with the added purpose of training athletes across all of our programs.

:text-+1:

 

[Total Red]

If you don’t think facilities matter, ask ISU admins why they are working to create a really nice gateway to campus at the Bone Student Center and why the campus rec center was a big deal. It’s the same as the luxury apartments they’re throwing up. It helps recruit student-athletes with the added purpose of training athletes across all of our programs.

:text-+1:

"If" you don't think facilities matter you would be the first. This thread is 9 pages long and not a single person has made that statement.

 

[fourthandshort]

4th Intramural sports. I don't think it produces any revenue, but the participants foot a hefty bill that goes to athletics in the form of student fees.
Virginia. Schools build indoor facilities for off-season workouts. Not just for football but for most spring and fall sports. That's when athletes get better if they're dedicated. I'm sure some want to bitch slap me for my constant bitching about this. But it's all about performance. Everyone practices in season. That's not when you see gains. In the past not as many schools at our level had indoor facilities. That's changed and the gap keeps getting wider. Our kids are at a big disadvantage.

for some reason I was assuming HS tournaments and camps for sports like Volleyball and Basketball. But you're right, you don;t want to take away intramurals from the students for this .. period.

But I completely agree the potential gains on other teams are much more prominent in offseason. And it's all about replicating the playing surface ... the footing thing, along with some lines ... that is the key. That and the whole roof, walls, and climate control thing ... we are at disadvantage, especially skill players like receivers and defensive backs, but all positions really.

For sure, hash marks, sidelines, yard lines, numbers are all important and necessary landmarks. And for sure skill kids reap the benefits. All of our athletes will. My niece was a gymnast at Michigan State. (Don't ask). We went up to see her. The girls were doing 100 yard gassers on the indoor football field. Soft surface Horton doesn't offer. Just a small example of many.

and just ask any QB what happens if the WR doesn't break off his route just right, or even worse, loses his footing for just a half second ... a horrible looking incomplete pass on what might have been a perfectly thrown ball, or worse yet .. a pick. When QBs and receivers are throwing in offseason, it is all about timing .. getting used to how they run routes .. particularly how the break off their routes, cutting, etc .. the field surface means everything.

Now extend that thought process to DBs guarding those receivers. it is all about footing. Same for all positions, but much more of a factor for skill positions who play more at full speed and in open field.

Horton surface is like playing on a tennis court, way to much traction. Nothing like turf or grass.

So having an indoor facility is not about perception. It's about gaining a real advantage ... or closing gap on a real disadvantage. It will tangibly help us with:

- recruiting warmer weather states - all things being equal what Florida kid wouldn't find playing at UNI more appealing than ISU if he felt we were comparable programs.
- off season OTAs during winter
- in season dealing with inclement weather, especially if we're going to play at indoor stadium like NDSU, UNI, or USD.

Very tangible benefits.

 

[Chi-bird]

Am I the only one who is a little nervous about the actual future of the sport?

I love football, and this program, but are there not signs everywhere that point to a possible major downward spiral to the sport in general?

I know that so many schools have invested/are investing in sports facilities across the country but what happens if 5-10 years from now, football attendance across FCS continues to drop and the sport becomes really, really expensive? Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see an investment in the football program, but I can't help but be taken back to the playoffs a few years back when we hosted UNI on a glorious day and drew a few thousand.

Football exists, in part, as a marketing tool for the university and for quality of student life, school pride, With a state pension deficit, and all the problems this state has, I just don't know if the $$$ in makes sense. We're about to hit a recession in a couple of years and who knows what's going to happen with attendance. We may be behind other teams in terms of facilities, but it might be our saving grace. Let's hope not. To be on the safe side, I'd rather see a bubble/dome that would be significantly less expensive than a permanent structure. With the savings, perhaps increase your marketing/sales budget and coaching budget. Build up more interest in football first.

 

[cpacmel]

If you don’t think facilities matter, ask ISU admins why they are working to create a really nice gateway to campus at the Bone Student Center and why the campus rec center was a big deal. It’s the same as the luxury apartments they’re throwing up. It helps recruit student-athletes with the added purpose of training athletes across all of our programs.

:text-+1:

"If" you don't think facilities matter you would be the first. This thread is 9 pages long and not a single person has made that statement.

There are posters on the basketball forum that have recently posted how they would like to drop football and allocate that money elsewhere. So to say they are for ANY facility is probably not accurate.

Also I thought Reg’s post Was more about doing things right and not going cheap. A bubble is going cheap imo. No one wants to stay in the older apartments. They want the new luxury ones with all the bells and whistles. The new fitness center on campus blows away the older one on Willow. It’s night and day.

Same goes for this facility when it comes to recruits right? You walk a recruit thru a bubble and they are like “this nice”. You walk a recruit thru a faculty like say NW just build and they are like blown away. Makes a big difference IMO.

 

[TIMMY]

:text-+1:

"If" you don't think facilities matter you would be the first. This thread is 9 pages long and not a single person has made that statement.

There are posters on the basketball forum that have recently posted how they would like to drop football and allocate that money elsewhere. So to say they are for ANY facility is probably not accurate.

Also I thought Reg’s post Was more about doing things right and not going cheap. A bubble is going cheap imo. No one wants to stay in the older apartments. They want the new luxury ones with all the bells and whistles. The new fitness center on campus blows away the older one on Willow. It’s night and day.

Same goes for this facility when it comes to recruits right? You walk a recruit thru a bubble and they are like “this nice”. You walk a recruit thru a faculty like say NW just build and they are like blown away. Makes a big difference IMO.

Everyone like the shiny new object. Me included. But how long are you willing to wait. 10 extra years? If ISU is on the verge of getting a permanent building done they're doing a great job of keeping it a secret. In my mind taking care of our current and near future athletes is priority 1.